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 Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 21:53 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | TiTaN_KGB wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: |
About CSS being slower, I disagree, but let me elaborate. There are two things. First, there's the concept of "time until next action", and then there's speed of combat. While true, that after the round begins, in CSS a certain time passes until you are in action, which gives the feeling of the game being slow, but it's only just tactical. Once there is combat, as in shooting at each other, it's faster. |
Ye, gun on gun is faster due to no regen and head shots. But overall, if you watch a competetive snd cod 4 match play out, the action in the round isnt like the last 20 seconds of the game.
Its the full 2 minutes. |
there you have SND, which is cs de_ in a nutshell. And also the most competitive mode, because it has the least variables.
the thing i find amusing, i that a lot of people actually think COD invented anything.
I mean besides killstreaks (did any other game feature such a mechanic ?).
Now the problem with killstreak rewards is, that it is the single most destructive anti-game thing in the entire universe.
in cod4, it was soft, tastefully done, not too destractive for the game itself. an UAV, a low yield airstrike and a easy to kill attack chopper. Things were fine then ...
and thn they added stuff like player controlled planes and choppers with inane DPS capabilities, with thermal sight and pointers, because it just wasnt easy enough to rape a 50m by 50m small map with a vulcano minigun lol ...
oh yeah and a nuke to end the map ...
Oh also COD promotes "everyone for himself" in a team based FPS in never before seen proportions lol. |
Things COD invented (introduced) to modern FPS gaming:
Regen health in multiplayer (COD2)
Level unlocks and XP in a shooter (COD4)
Perks (COD4)
Killstreaks (COD4)
Deathstreaks (COD MW2)
Gun Customization (COD4) - not sure about this one
And if we talk about competetive play, SnD in competetive cod4 does not have killstreaks or perks.
In a typical 5v5 game a team is allowed 1 sniper, 2 Specs Ops, 2 assaults on the team. Or 1 shotgun replacing something of each.
In competetive COD2, you were allowed 1 Sniper, 1 Shotgun with smoke grenade, and 3 rifles or full auto's in a game
COD1 competitive play had basically the same ruleset as cod2, except for the shotgun.
COD 4 is the last played cod in competetive matches. Communities normally skipped Treyarch titles, as they often had vehicles and had daft map design. IW's MW2 was actually way too daft to be good at anything, so it died.
For the Motherland!
Last edited by TiTaN_KGB on Sun, 6th Nov 2011 21:56; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:00 Post subject: |
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@TiTaN_KGB : COD did not invent Health regeneration. Games as far back as 1992 had that (stupid) mechanic already (faceball 2000), most of the Halos also had it (Halo 2 upwards).
also dont forget MoH was heavily scripted singleplayer, cashing in on the saving private ryan movie and rights (held by EA). The game was mostly a copy paste of the movie hehe.
For the MP, to be honest, i dont really remember lol. It was so unimpressive and blant ,it wouldnt really let me have a memory of it. Only remember glimpses of people running around randomly with weapon that were majorly fucked up and shit like that lol ^^.
At the same time we had q3, cs 1.x , ut, tons of mods for these games for all kind of scenarios and settings lol (from ww2 to future and back haha), tribes 2 with never before seen huge open outdoor maps and vehicle combat etc.
Last edited by Sin317 on Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:05; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:01 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | @TiTaN_KGB : COD did not invent Health regeneration. Games as far back as 1992 had that (stupid) mechanic already (faceball 2000), most of the Halos also had it (Halo 2 upwards). |
They had it in SP.(i think?)
COD 2 had it in MP.
For the Motherland!
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:07 Post subject: |
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yeah but it was still 10+ years behind faceball 2000 ^^.
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:10 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | yeah but it was still 10+ years behind faceball 2000 ^^. |
But i think it's fair to say, that the COD2 regen system in MP has changed the way today's shooters are built.
Almost everysingle shooter these days has a health regen system of some sort.
Maybe its better to put the question not like "What has COD invented in FPS space", but rather
"What has COD popularized in the FPS scene and made it a must have for any serious FPS game"
Sure, maybe regen was tried in games before COD, but ever since COD4, any shooter that wanted to compete with it's success, had to have a system of regeneration and cuztomization of either charecter or weapon.
For the Motherland!
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Shinin
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:15 Post subject: |
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Wasn't BF2 out before CoD4, BF2 already had persistence with unlocks, ribbons and ranks.
i9 7500K, GTX980 Quad Frozr VI, 24GB RAM
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:16 Post subject: |
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| Shinin wrote: | | Wasn't BF2 out before CoD4, BF2 already had persistence with unlocks, ribbons and ranks. |
Yeah, I am mistaken in that regard, HALO 2 didnt come out until 2k7 on the PC, and Ive never had a console...
For the Motherland!
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:17 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | yeah but the problem is, it is a BAD thing. health regeneration is EVIL EVIL EVIL.
PS : i did play COD4 in the german esl league (not saying we were any good, but it sure changes from pubs ^^) and yes it used a very restricted ruleset (mod) which basicly removed ... everything lol (close to) perks, streaks all that.
The thing was tho, since SND was the dominate mode played, it was just CS in a new outfit. Thats probably the reasons why it never came close to dethroning CS (either cs 1.x or css hehe). It wasnt different enough to cather to the cs hordes  .
And competitive play was pretty much impossible in mw2 (good luck who hosts haha). |
COD 4 surpassed CSS. Even today major organizations, like fnatic, have a cod4 squad.
And health regen, i think, is a good thing, as it makes the game more dynamic. IMHO of course
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:26 Post subject: |
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| Code: |
51,935 69,605 Counter-Strike
50,901 59,138 Team Fortress 2
42,805 57,692 Counter-Strike: Source
25,006 25,768 Sid Meier's Civilization V
20,922 32,374 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
17,582 17,718 DC Universe Online
15,480 15,748 Dungeon Defenders
13,674 18,502 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer |
(obviously those are current numbers), but i do also remember that cs and CSS always dominated any cod game. Maybe in the release period a cod game was hanging in there o heck even outnumbering cs/css, but that usually didnt last very long hehe.
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:39 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | Code: |
51,935 69,605 Counter-Strike
50,901 59,138 Team Fortress 2
42,805 57,692 Counter-Strike: Source
25,006 25,768 Sid Meier's Civilization V
20,922 32,374 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
17,582 17,718 DC Universe Online
15,480 15,748 Dungeon Defenders
13,674 18,502 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer |
(obviously those are current numbers), but i do also remember that cs and CSS always dominated any cod game. Maybe in the release period a cod game was hanging in there o heck even outnumbering cs/css, but that usually didnt last very long hehe. |
I don't mean total amount of players, but rather tthe presence and success of the game in the ccompetetive scene
For the Motherland!
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Aeon
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:41 Post subject: |
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Health regen makes you not play prudently, I see no reason for health regen in a game with a respawn mechanic. Health regen, imho, is a way of covering up your mistakes. Here's what I like about TF2 very much as a scout - picking your fights is a very important skill. You have to evaluate your situation, know when to engage who, and for how long. Oftentimes you can't get away with going head on with a good soldier, but hurt him, and you know he will go for the HP when you disappear (or not, if he's smarter), and that elevates that tf2 scenario from simple shooter to mindgames. You just forced a decision on your enemy, should he chose it, and you can outmaneuver for an ambush. NOT having health regen means more gameplay depth. Health regen means sloppy play, and lack of tactics.
It does help beginners get past initial difficulties, BUT it doesn't reward players for getting better.
God I fucking wish I had like 20 million to waste, so I could design a game.
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 22:48 Post subject: |
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| TiTaN_KGB wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | | Code: |
51,935 69,605 Counter-Strike
50,901 59,138 Team Fortress 2
42,805 57,692 Counter-Strike: Source
25,006 25,768 Sid Meier's Civilization V
20,922 32,374 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
17,582 17,718 DC Universe Online
15,480 15,748 Dungeon Defenders
13,674 18,502 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer |
(obviously those are current numbers), but i do also remember that cs and CSS always dominated any cod game. Maybe in the release period a cod game was hanging in there o heck even outnumbering cs/css, but that usually didnt last very long hehe. |
I don't mean total amount of players, but rather tthe presence and success of the game in the ccompetetive scene |
yeah but i dont think cod4 ever out performed css. I would say cs 1.x outperformed css (cs 1.x is too good, so cs is his own worst competition lol.
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Mcs[NBK]
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Location: Germany/Heilbronx
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:11 Post subject: |
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The best is COD MW3 Have Lan support
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Aeon
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:26 Post subject: |
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garus
VIP Member
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:36 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:37; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:39 Post subject: |
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LAN is a good idea ... hoard em together, easier to kill ....
wait a minute ... nm ... my bad.
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:43 Post subject: |
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Didnt they say dedicated servers are in the cod 4 do it yourself style ?
I mean...we could have crako servs up in no time if that true .
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| Posted: Sun, 6th Nov 2011 23:54 Post subject: |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
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| Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2011 00:23 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | Lordas wrote: | | aeonfast wrote: |
Are you thinking, what I am thinking ? |
I feel some kind of tunngling sensation  |
And I feel some kind of hamaching sensation |
Awesome finally a positive thing for PC gamers  |
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Blazerr
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| Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2011 00:24 Post subject: |
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@human_steel, i rember that once u posted a video that sums up the whole Modern Warfare story, i think it was about 9 min long or maybe 5 or something like that ... could you posted it again ?
True Story!
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Sin317
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| Posted: Mon, 7th Nov 2011 00:35 Post subject: |
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so, unranked, do what you want, hack your stats and unlock everything dedicated servers
or ...
Ranked P2P ...
yeah, thats a toughy lol.
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Aeon
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