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Werelds
Special Little Man
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 Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 18:44 Post subject: |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:03 Post subject: |
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That has got to be a bullshit price.
AMD need to get the fuck out if they want that price on a single gpu.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73326
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:12 Post subject: |
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| human_steel wrote: | €700  |
 Fuck yeah, we sure need €700 card to run them console portz! |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24658
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:29 Post subject: |
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That's not RRP, that's someone taking advantage of the surprise limited release of 7970'ies the 22nd of December. Same thing with every high profile launch.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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garus
VIP Member
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:30 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:29; edited 1 time in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:32 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | An add-in board (AIB) partner told DonanimHaber that the European pricing of the HD 7970 will be in the range of 539-549 Euro |
€500 is still a hefty price for a GPU. I'll wait for the7950 (or 7970XT or whatever the little brother to the flagship will be called) before making any kind of decision. May actually wait for the Keplers as well to see what kind of performance the price worthy (if any) Keplers provide compared to AMDs at the same price point. No way I'll pay anywhere near €500 for a graphic card not to mention the silly €700 that outlets will price it at to take advantage of limited availability.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:55 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: |
- Metro: Last Night? |
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Frant
King's Bounty
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 19:58 Post subject: |
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Btw, I think the reason AMD is setting such a high price is because they know they've got the playing field for themselves for a while before nVidias top-models are finished and released.
I actually doubt I'll get a new card for the next 6 months since my unlocked and overclocked 2GB 6950 is still doing just fine. In fact, there's little point to getting anything faster and better until the next-gen consoles have been released so we can move on from DX9-gen console ports. :/
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 20:00 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Salland always do this, they had the 580 at the same price before it launched 
Shit customer service as well! |
Indeed, they just try to squeeze some extra cash out of fanboys that WANT TO GET IT FIRST NO MATTER WHAT!
I pity those fools
Dutch article: http://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/25651/asus-radeon-hd-7970-in-de-pre-order
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
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Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 21:21 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | human_steel wrote: | | €700 |
Fuck yeah, we sure need €700 card to run them console portz! |
Why not? Hopefully that card will be able to finally push the boundaries of PC gaming, achieving steady 30fps in GTA V, without stuttering. |
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 21:43 Post subject: |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Dec 2011 22:45 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | Btw, I think the reason AMD is setting such a high price is because they know they've got the playing field for themselves for a while before nVidias top-models are finished and released.
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But that's bad business sense, surely? People who are going to buy that card straight off either have more money than sense, or know what they're looking for. The former group isn't that large, and the latter group will take one look at that price and say "fuck off" (like everyone here is). Makes more sense to price it as low as possible, so that can start selling units and making their money back before Nvidia release their cards.
Not saying you're wrong, just saying they're a bit stupid if they do that.
Pixieking
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 14:40 Post subject: |
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The real price will probably be between 450 and 500 EUR. That alone shows how confident AMD is in this generation (and thus GCN), their last 3 generations were all priced exactly right for their performance: 4870 was priced at $300 even though it beat the $400 GTX 260, 5870 was priced at $300 versus NVIDIA's $500 480 (60% price increase for 10-15% performance), 6970 perfectly matches the 570. Let's hope they're right 
Now for the geeks among us, some tech blah - don't read on if you don't care, I know very few will (but Frant will probably like this!)
From what I know about the architecture, clock increases should have a more profound effect now, since games will come much closer to fully using the potential power; VLIW5 (Cypress a.k.a. 5870) was only used between 60-70% on average; VLIW4 and 5 are both aimed at a lot of ILP (Instruction Level Parallelism). Basically the idea is that you can potentially execute 5 independent instructions per thread simultaneously. While some engines get close and average over 4, most games average about 3-3.5. In other words, there's always at least 1 ALU in Cypress' SPs that goes unused. More often than not it's 2 or even 3. While it may seem that this is a dumb decision, AMD (well, ATI) have in fact been using VLIW since R300 (9700). Back then, the most common operation was basically a product of 4 components combined with a scalar component (lighting) - VLIW5 can process that in one single tick. A good example of something that makes full use of VLIW5 is Bitcoin Mining; they actually use all 5 ALU's in almost every operation. As a result, AMD cards mine anywhere from 3 to 5 times faster.
NVIDIA's approach is one of TLP (Thread Level Parallelism). Rather than executing independent instructions simultaneously, it does that with threads (tasks).
Neither is perfect: ILP means the compiler has to take care of the scheduling (since the compiler knows the program and can schedule the instructions appropriately), so it's more consistent - but at the same time it does require smart programming obviously. TLP on the other hand is easier since scheduling is a lot simpler, but on the other hand there's also very little you can do in software to increase performance. The biggest difference however lies in that VLIW is much worse at simple compute operations where you're working on 1 or 2 components at a time; this is why you see NVIDIA's approach taking such a lead in SPFP and why AMD in turn is so much faster in DPFP computing.
Enough with the history, GCN!
First off: forget VLIW. This thing is radically different, combining the best of several worlds.
Where an SP used to hold 4 or 5 (VLIW4/5) ALUs + branch unit, we're now looking at Vector-based SIMDs. Each SIMD will have 16 ALU's and 4 of them will form one Compute Unit (for a total of 64 ALUs). It's the CU that has the branch unit now, as well as a scalar ALU. 4 CU's will share some read only L1 cache and R/W L2 cache (not sure about the amounts at the moment).
Now, because they're moving away from VLIW, they lose some die space to a scheduler; each CU now has to schedule its own stuff. The biggest difference now is that while a CU can still work on 4 instructions as once like a SIMD in Cayman can, CUs can now schedule their workload dynamically. Result? Little to no unused hardware (in theory anyway ).
Going up, CUs are once again grouped with shared caches, ROPs and stuff. The details on this front are still fuzzy, but we might just see the most interesting stuff happening on the memory front. AMD are also adding a whole shitload of new interrupts and debug methods, so at least they're serious about going after the compute market as well. There's going to be some unified memory stuff as well, they're actually working within an x86-64 address space as far as I know, which further opens up the way to seamlessly switch between CPU and GPU execution.
So the above might be a bit vague, but what we do know:
- Is it an out-of-order architecture? No, but it's not strictly in-order either, since CUs can process wavefronts at will.
- It is a scalar-based GPU (G80 and its offspring)? Nope, part of it is, but the entire thing isn't.
- Is it a vector-based GPU then? Nope, same as above.
So what the fuck is this thing then? I don't know yet, but from what I do know it takes the best from Cypress, G80, Fermi and -drumroll- Larrabee. I can't wait for this thing to come out, because it takes a lot of good things from several architectures and rolls them into a single package. Whether it works remains to be seen, but the theory is brilliant; it's a schizophrenic architecture, with a scalar+vector design, yet in theory this could work for whatever you throw at it.
Disclaimer: some of the above might not be accurate, constructed this from memory based on what I've heard and read recently
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 14:47 Post subject: |
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Followup for some features coming (supposedly anyway):
- Standard set of improvements: better CFX, new bezel compensation, those things
- Proper power gating (i.e. the GPU can completely shut off when idle - also in CFX, so it could shut off the second/third/fourth card when in Windows and general 2D)
- Eyefinity + 3D
- Custom Eyefinity resolutions. Mainly meaning that you can for example combine a 1080p monitor with 2 1680x1050 monitors and it'll render properly in native resolution on all 3 without stretching anything etc - if this is true, then that's very fucking impressive (as atm Surround/Eyefinity require you to scale down to whatever your lowest resolution is in your array).
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b0se
Banned
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 15:31 Post subject: |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 15:50 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Followup for some features coming (supposedly anyway):
- Standard set of improvements: better CFX, new bezel compensation, those things
- Proper power gating (i.e. the GPU can completely shut off when idle - also in CFX, so it could shut off the second/third/fourth card when in Windows and general 2D)
- Eyefinity + 3D
- Custom Eyefinity resolutions. Mainly meaning that you can for example combine a 1080p monitor with 2 1680x1050 monitors and it'll render properly in native resolution on all 3 without stretching anything etc - if this is true, then that's very fucking impressive (as atm Surround/Eyefinity require you to scale down to whatever your lowest resolution is in your array). |
Y u no physx??
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 16:00 Post subject: |
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Piss off with your trolling please
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24658
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 17:41 Post subject: |
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Very interesting read Werelds.
I did get slightly disappointed and bewildered seeing only 32 ROP's instead of 48. No idea if that will affect performance though since I don't know how the co-dependency between the GCN-engine and the ROP's are. I guess it depends on how GCN packs data for the ROP's to render.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Dec 2011 17:50 Post subject: |
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 19th Dec 2011 04:18 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Slizza
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Mon, 19th Dec 2011 09:50 Post subject: |
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there are also videos of the last night beta before the game was renamed again to last light.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 19th Dec 2011 09:58 Post subject: |
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Please, do show them; not ones that people called Last Night because they're either dyslexic or just illiterate.
Just get out with your trolling please; there has not been a public beta of any form and the game was renamed straight from 2034 to Last Light. All the E3 videos were also titled Last Light.
Again, nice try.
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