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 Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 07:44 Post subject: |
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i'm still with the other guys who say they come stolen from walmart or wherever. it doesn't matter what anyone says selling cd keys is illegal and it's only a matter of time before the site is shutdown. if i want to play a game's multiplayer i just buy the game in its BOX. that way i'm guaranteed a 100% legit key that i am the only one who has.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 09:27 Post subject: |
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| xhazexnyhc wrote: | | i'm still with the other guys who say they come stolen from walmart or wherever. it doesn't matter what anyone says selling cd keys is illegal and it's only a matter of time before the site is shutdown. if i want to play a game's multiplayer i just buy the game in its BOX. that way i'm guaranteed a 100% legit key that i am the only one who has. |
same i say, both if they are from wallmart or from thailand the reseling is illegal
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 09:35 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | So you're using a price that is non-existent compared to a price that no one can verify to justify your claim of 1/4? wow... owned indeed. |
Many people on nforce, for example Copywrong, can verify that it was indeed that price. Before they ran out of stock and had to get a new supplier.
If you don't believe me? That's fine. This is the internet, I'll never meet you so I don't care what you think. If you're really overzealous in making sure I was indeed right, ask Copywrong or search around in the BF2 thread where lots of people bought the first batch of keys when they were unavailable.
But why are we having this argument nitpicking on the 1/4th? (on which I was, indeed, right. If you really, REALLY want to know that I "owned" you, just ask Internal_Storm, send him an email about the 18 USD price and he'll get back to you in a flash, but I guess you won't because on the internet hardly anybody admits defeat) The argument would be just as valid if I said 1/3rd of the price or hell, even 1/2nd. I got the key of one of the most popular games for 1/4th of Dutch retail price. I do not feel like a sucker, perhaps feel so about me, but frankly, I don't really give a shit. I don't even know you.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 09:38 Post subject: |
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It's bad to warez games; what's worse is the rat fucks who profit from warez.
Not that I give two craps about companies like Valve or EA (especially not EA), but it's even more wrong to profit from someone else's work.
And seriously now guys, if you really want a CD-key that bad, go rip it off yourself, don't pay some douche to do it for you. Even though you're not the one crackin' open the box at Best Buy, you're still a thief.
dyn IP addys, subnet & mac spoofs, email routing, and if all else fails, wi-fi. banned? lol, its more like brb. =p
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 10:33 Post subject: |
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| n00bCentral wrote: | It's bad to warez games; what's worse is the rat fucks who profit from warez.
Not that I give two craps about companies like Valve or EA (especially not EA), but it's even more wrong to profit from someone else's work.
And seriously now guys, if you really want a CD-key that bad, go rip it off yourself, don't pay some douche to do it for you. Even though you're not the one crackin' open the box at Best Buy, you're still a thief. |
You should read the full thread before giving your opinion, and you'd know he obtains the codes legally.
Whatever, there's no talking to some of you people. I only get tired trying and I have to dish out the same arguments 100s of times in one thread because someone just blatantly forgot to read it.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 10:43 Post subject: |
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he might obtain the key legally in thailand, but selling asian stores boxes keys to customers in other countries is itself an illegal activity... no doutb about that... go reading the box of the asian version of games.
"only for asian market, forbidden to import or sold in u.s. etc etc"
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 11:04 Post subject: |
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If he has his server in thailand its completely legal...
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 15:23 Post subject: |
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| Selt wrote: | he might obtain the key legally in thailand, but selling asian stores boxes keys to customers in other countries is itself an illegal activity... no doutb about that... go reading the box of the asian version of games.
"only for asian market, forbidden to import or sold in u.s. etc etc" |
What are you paying for in reality.. the game? the box? the cd-key? or the rights to play the game?
Assuming your paying for the "product" which can very easily (by law) be seen as the physical item itself, he is not breaking the law, he is simply selling a number, no physical transaction of "product" is occuring.
If however the law see's the "rights to own/play" as the product, then he is breaking the law. However I doubt this is the case as most copywrite's are pushed through the US, which is essentially the "right to play"..
I dont think he is breaking the law, because no "physcial" product is exchanged for money. Either way, if this wasnt legal, he would of been shut down by now, its that simple. People need to stop bitching about this and accept it. Its there, its working, its real, who gives a crap if you think its illegal. He is doing it. He is also doing it without anyone shutting him down or threatening him in court  . You can not argue with that fact!
It is time to walk away my friends, the truth is, your opinion means shit. The only power you have is over your own choice, buy from him if you want to, dont buy from him if you don't, but either way quit bitching about it ..
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 15:34 Post subject: |
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will see... my opinion worths just cuz i foresee what happends if/when the site will be shut down.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 15:42 Post subject: |
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FYI: there is a very small chance the CD Keys could be disabled without hitting "real" consumers of the product from the original country. Which is again, another reason not to worry.
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 16:13 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Many people on nforce, for example Copywrong, can verify that it was indeed that price. Before they ran out of stock and had to get a new supplier.
If you don't believe me? That's fine. This is the internet, I'll never meet you so I don't care what you think. If you're really overzealous in making sure I was indeed right, ask Copywrong or search around in the BF2 thread where lots of people bought the first batch of keys when they were unavailable.
But why are we having this argument nitpicking on the 1/4th? (on which I was, indeed, right. If you really, REALLY want to know that I "owned" you, just ask Internal_Storm, send him an email about the 18 USD price and he'll get back to you in a flash, but I guess you won't because on the internet hardly anybody admits defeat) The argument would be just as valid if I said 1/3rd of the price or hell, even 1/2nd. I got the key of one of the most popular games for 1/4th of Dutch retail price. I do not feel like a sucker, perhaps feel so about me, but frankly, I don't really give a shit. I don't even know you. |
Try reading that again. The non-existant price is the $18.
Regardless of what the price EVER was. The current price is not that.
The unverifiable price was whatever was being charged in dutch shops.
Unless you've got a website for one of those shops, I don't think anyone would want to pay $10-$15 to verify the price by calling them internationally.
He is now referencing $29.95 for BF2 keys (see his page) and the price has been jumping between that and $23.95.
The point was that you are making it sound much better of a deal than it really is. Maybe you got a good deal in the early goings, but its not longer like that. If he was really only charging 25% of the retail in store price, it would be a fairly appealing service. As it is alot of the keys aren't going for massive savings, given the potential illegal nature of the business and the occasional problem thats been mentioned.
Last edited by crossmr on Wed, 13th Jul 2005 18:51; edited 1 time in total
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 17:09 Post subject: |
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Well it may not be "Illegal" but its definitly imoral. The reason we are all bitching about it in this thread?? Thats what this thread was opened for, to get different points of view.
And saying thats fine, its the interent. I dont care about your point of view..um..im confuzed.. Why are you posting then? What the fuck are you here for? Thats what forms are for, instead you should make your own choice about what to do.
Im sorry but just becasue some crook found a loop hole, it doesnt make it right. But what it does do is eventually make tighter law about such products that will effect us all.
Take what i have said how you like, becasue some of you dont care about my opineon, so stop reading allready.
We all have to live in our own skin!
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 17:44 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | Many people on nforce, for example Copywrong, can verify that it was indeed that price. Before they ran out of stock and had to get a new supplier.
If you don't believe me? That's fine. This is the internet, I'll never meet you so I don't care what you think. If you're really overzealous in making sure I was indeed right, ask Copywrong or search around in the BF2 thread where lots of people bought the first batch of keys when they were unavailable.
But why are we having this argument nitpicking on the 1/4th? (on which I was, indeed, right. If you really, REALLY want to know that I "owned" you, just ask Internal_Storm, send him an email about the 18 USD price and he'll get back to you in a flash, but I guess you won't because on the internet hardly anybody admits defeat) The argument would be just as valid if I said 1/3rd of the price or hell, even 1/2nd. I got the key of one of the most popular games for 1/4th of Dutch retail price. I do not feel like a sucker, perhaps feel so about me, but frankly, I don't really give a shit. I don't even know you. |
Try reading that again. The non-existant price is the $18.
Regardless of what the price EVER was. The current price is not that.
The unverifiable price was whatever was being charged in dutch shops.
Unless you've got a website for one of those shops, I don't think anyone would want to pay $10-$15 to verify the price by calling them internationally.
He is now referencing $29.95 for BF2 keys (see his page) and the price has been jumping between that and $23.95.
The point was that you are making it sound much better of a deal than it really is. Maybe you got a good deal in the early goings, but its not longer like that. If he was really only charging 25% of the retail in store price, it would be a fairly appealing service. As it is alot of the keys aren't going for massive savings, given the potential illegal nature of the business and the occasional problem thats been mentioned.[/quote]
Seems you're far more intelligent then I originally anticipated. Pardon me for using the word "owned", I really did think that was the level you were at.
But you called people that used his service stupid (or in your exact words, a sucker), and I wanted to disprove that by saying I personally that getting a game for 1/4th the retail price is not a bad deal, and certainly not stupid. I have no interest in knowing what other people payed for it, I myself payed 1/4th hence I do not consider myself stupid for using his service. Paying 30 dollar for it whilst it is 50 including box and CD's in the shop is, indeed, pretty daft. But not for what I payed for it. Especially with the current weak dollar and the strong Euro, us Europeans got a really great deal.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 18:58 Post subject: |
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| SoSBigperm wrote: | | internal_storm wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | Selt wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | Why do people doubt this when loads of people from these forums and elsewhere have bought from this site and had no problems? |
because i'm pretty sure it's not legal to trade cdkeys this way. thailand retail copies are "only for sale in asia, import to us or other countries is forbidden". as long as the valve key trading itself is not legal |
Why are you bothered about that when 99 times out of 100 the person will be using it with a warezed copy anyway? Using an illegal copy then refusing to use a key that may be illegal is a touch hypocritical. |
Ya, indeed no games are really 1/4 the price but it really depends on what game and where you live. About legal issues and having a backup copy well, if you buy the CD Key, a portion of the money IS going towards EA or Valve or w/e company is distrubuting the game. That makes you the legal owner. Maybe not of the box but of the CD Key from the box which you are also buying but just not recieving... if that makes sense  |
So.. if i pay for the shipping. Will you send me the box? Which i am buy but not recieving. Your gonna throw it out anyways right? Since i am the legal owner of it. If that makes sense.
Or since you kinda also say i just own the cd-key from the box. Rip it off and send it? Its my legal property right?Ill pay the shipping. If that makes sense.
Had to post both becasue last line of your post did not make sense. |
I don't do shipping... for one you would then have to pay shipping and duties which would outstrip the cost of the game. For another you would have to PAY the shipping in the first place which would cost at least $10-15 through my supplier (I don't actually get the games myself, they do all the processing for me). And the game would be in Thai and you would either have to copy all the files off the CD's onto your HD and then tweak the install files or go into the registry depending on the game. The game manual and box would all be in Thai, and if you are installing the Thai version of BF2 for example, you can ONLY play on Thai servers. It's not CD Key bound but it is game bound so if you have a Thai version of the game it will only allow you to access Thai servers.
When you are buying off the website pretty much you are buying the Retail CD Key. You are the legal owner of that. I do not sell boxes or disks or manuals as clearly stated on my website. But you ARE buying it all even if you are only PAYING for the CD Key.
If that makes sense... but hey, what I really don't understand is that this is on an "nForce" forum which is pretty much the breeding ground of warez and illegal downloading and releases so hey, speak what you will "righteous" people!
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 19:00 Post subject: |
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You might want to go back and read my posts again. I never called anyone a sucker. Someone else did, but please don't attribute their comments to me. I did say that it was a bit of a risk, given the nature and the fact that there aren't massive savings on the keys. Given that these keys are likely not permitted to be exported from Thailand, and the occasional sketchyness of the website and service (i.e. giving out an obviously fake CD key, that either shows deceit or poor quality control) I would not pay more than 25% for a key over what I could get it in a store. Anymore and I'm going to go with the store version if I actually want the game that bad.
Now on the other hand if this service was provided by or supported by the developer/publisher, I'd probably be willing to go as high as 40% of the box price.
That's just me.. other people might have higher levels they're willing to pay.
For all we know if this becomes a big enough business the publishers might notice and decide to kill any thailand issued keys that are not connecting from the proper regions.
intel ultra 7 265k, 64gb ram, 3070
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 19:55 Post subject: |
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| internal_storm wrote: | | SoSBigperm wrote: | | internal_storm wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | Selt wrote: | | dryan wrote: | | Why do people doubt this when loads of people from these forums and elsewhere have bought from this site and had no problems? |
because i'm pretty sure it's not legal to trade cdkeys this way. thailand retail copies are "only for sale in asia, import to us or other countries is forbidden". as long as the valve key trading itself is not legal |
Why are you bothered about that when 99 times out of 100 the person will be using it with a warezed copy anyway? Using an illegal copy then refusing to use a key that may be illegal is a touch hypocritical. |
Ya, indeed no games are really 1/4 the price but it really depends on what game and where you live. About legal issues and having a backup copy well, if you buy the CD Key, a portion of the money IS going towards EA or Valve or w/e company is distrubuting the game. That makes you the legal owner. Maybe not of the box but of the CD Key from the box which you are also buying but just not recieving... if that makes sense |
So.. if i pay for the shipping. Will you send me the box? Which i am buy but not recieving. Your gonna throw it out anyways right? Since i am the legal owner of it. If that makes sense.
Or since you kinda also say i just own the cd-key from the box. Rip it off and send it? Its my legal property right?Ill pay the shipping. If that makes sense.
Had to post both becasue last line of your post did not make sense. |
(I don't actually get the games myself, they do all the processing for me). And the game would be in Thai and you would either have to copy all the files off the CD's onto your HD and then tweak the install files or go into the registry depending on the game. The game manual and box would all be in Thai, and if you are installing the Thai version of BF2 for example, you can ONLY play on Thai servers. It's not CD Key bound but it is game bound so if you have a Thai version of the game it will only allow you to access Thai servers.
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Now is Very clear, as you just said. The CD-KEYS are for Thai servers. you found a loop hole, and your exploiting it. Do i have to make this more black and white for you.
The people who bought your CD-KEYS using the Illegal Download Version are leachers and pirates, that i agree with, but thats not what the "Scene" is about. Call me Rightous, or what ever But have you ever read the line " IF YOU LIKE THIS RELEASE,BUY IT; QUALITY SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS DESERVE YOUR SUPPORT"
I buy all the games i play. I have some choice words for people such as you, but i will not go there, becasue i know you will get whats coming to you. Your making money by exploiting the works of others through trade loop holes.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 20:03 Post subject: |
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hope some games publishers find out about this site and cut it of asap...
this is the worst way to exploit piracy ever seen
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 20:44 Post subject: |
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the keys work, ppl are satisfied, so stop bitching.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 20:45 Post subject: |
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lol.. I just love how people can relate this to piracy.. Ohhhh well..
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 21:00 Post subject: |
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| [sYn] wrote: | | lol.. I just love how people can relate this to piracy.. Ohhhh well.. |
everyone buys keys from there because they have lost their legit key they found in their legally bought retail copy?
come on, be seriuos
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 21:05 Post subject: |
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No, more like people have bought a licence for the said software and are using it to play.
I would say that at least the developer is getting some cash.
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 21:22 Post subject: |
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| Jenni wrote: | No, more like people have bought a licence for the said software and are using it to play.
I would say that at least the developer is getting some cash. |
Very true.. but this internal_storm guy shouldnt recieve any of it. And if there wasnt gamekeyworld, i think more legit (Boxed) copies would be sold. Soon everything will be distributed via a steam like client.
And syn.. how could this not be releated to piracy. Why else would he sell so many keys without copies of the games? Becasue everyone bought them, but lost there key. And instead of trying to contact the software companies to get a new key (I have done this by sending them my Original CD) they pay more money for one?
puxili, i know they are working,ive read his site. Its doesnt change the fact of what this guy is doing is wrong. Do what ya want, think your not stealing becasue you paid half price. How ever you must justify this in your head, is your problem.
I hope most of you will boycotted his little operation.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 22:26 Post subject: |
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| Selt wrote: | | amazon buys and resels things legally... u notice the difference or i should spell it for u? |
ERmm.. point a law to me that states you can't buy a product lisence and sell it. Once you have I will agree. Until then your the one with no legs to stand on "claiming" this is illegal.
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 22:40 Post subject: |
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Now, please do correct me if I am wrong. But if we look at the EA License Agreement for Battlefield 2:
| Quote: | EA TOOLS END USER LICENSE
Electronic Arts Inc, and its subsidiaries, affiliates and licensors
(collectively, "EA") grants you a non- transferable non-exclusive license to
download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool ("Tool") and/or materials ("Materials") (collectively the "Tools & Materials") solely for your personal noncommercial use in connection with EA's products, in accordance with the terms below.
EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials. You may not alter any of EA's trademarks or logos, or alter or remove any of EA's trademark or copyright notices included in or with the Tools & Materials or EA's products. Your right to use Tools & Materials is limited to the license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use any of the Tools & Materials. Without limiting the preceding sentence, you may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial purpose. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use the Tools & Materials to promote another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server emulator.
You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located:
"This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its
licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game
content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All
Rights Reserved." You will not represent that your site is endorsed or
approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors.
THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. EA SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTIES OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, MERCHANTABILITY AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
ANY USE YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE OF THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS IS UNDERTAKEN BY YOU ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK. EA DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM, NETWORK, SOFTWARE OR OTHER
TECHNOLOGY.
EA WILL NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS. PLEASE DO NOT CALL OR
SEND EMAIL TO EA CUSTOMER SUPPORT REGARDING THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS, AS EA WILL
NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THESE INQUIRIES.
IN NO EVENT SHALL EA BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE OR OTHER DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS LICENSE EVEN IF EA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DISCONTINUE THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS, OR MODIFY THEM, AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT OBLIGATION TO ANYONE.
At EA's request, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless EA from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, arising from any breach of this License by you and/or your use or misuse of the Tools & Materials.
EA may make the Tools & Materials available at its site(s) located in the
United States and/or Canada and/or the European Union. You are solely
responsible for knowing and complying with all federal, state, and local laws that may apply to your use of Tools & Materials in your own locale. By downloading any Tools & Materials, you warrant that you are not located in any country, or exporting the Tools & Materials to any person or place, to which the United States and/or Canada and/or European Union or its member countries has embargoed goods.
EA may revoke or terminate this license at any time, for any reason or no
reason, in its sole discretion. Upon termination, you must destroy or return to EA all Tools & Materials. This License is governed by United States Copyright and California law (without regard to conflicts of law), and is the entire agreement between EA and you regarding the Tools & Materials.
Please select "I accept the terms of the license agreement" if you agree to
the above terms, or "I do not accept the terms of the license agreement"
to discontinue. If you decline, you may not use the Tools & Materials. |
We can see the following text towards the movement of said license.
EA may make the Tools & Materials available at its site(s) located in the
United States and/or Canada and/or the European Union. You are solely
responsible for knowing and complying with all federal, state, and local laws that may apply to your use of Tools & Materials in your own locale. By downloading any Tools & Materials, you warrant that you are not located in any country, or exporting the Tools & Materials to any person or place, to which the United States and/or Canada and/or European Union or its member countries has embargoed goods.
So, my understanding of this is that so long as he isnt selling anything to a "embargoed" country, he is fully legal. There is also no indication that the lisence can not be re-sold. Plus I do belive the website purchases in bulk from a DISTRIBUTOR meaning that things are without doubt legal and above board..
as I said, please correct me if I am wrong, I am simply showing my facts and pointing out how they counter act your opinions.
Just to clarify further, he is not selling the "product" just the lisence key, which is infact simply the "LICENSE" shown above. In which it states nothing about exporting/importing from countries of creation.
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| Posted: Wed, 13th Jul 2005 22:55 Post subject: |
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my bet that the site will close
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Jul 2005 03:38 Post subject: |
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@[syn] one problem with the EA license..that license is region specific. If you read the license for the Thai copies they're expressly denied permission to resell the game outside of the country. This would include CD keys sold for cybercafe's, servers, lans, etc. He may have found a seller willing to sell him the items, but the sale is illegal. Reselling the item is still illegal.
In canada I can find an american seller willing to sell me a Mace and ship it to me. Doesn't mean I can legally own it in Canada (I know, I've spent a long time on the phone with customs trying to figure out WHY). In that case the sale itself is legal. Its the import of the item. In the case of these keys they've already been exported illegaly and he turns around and sells them in a region he's not permitted to sell them in.
This is the type of thing that could last for sometime if he doesn't get big enough for the companies to care. IF 20 sites pop up with his business model and someone does a news report on MSNBC about a new trend in online games, he's as good as toast.
intel ultra 7 265k, 64gb ram, 3070
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