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 Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 11:07 Post subject: |
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In my case, I just love this game.
It reminds me of the old hack'n slash games I used to play as a kid and while there's obviously nothing new added to the genre, it's extremely addictive and it's very polished, it looks like they thought and cared about every little detail to make the game more pleasant.
It even distracted me from playing BL2.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 12:07 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | Quote: | I think people here are smart enough to judge a game on its own merits. "Diablo 3 sucked ass, we need an aRPG badly, so we'll call this average shit awesome" is not the case.'We're not children looking for a new toy.
The gameplay is great, sadly the entire aRPG genre has not moved an inch in other areas. While Diablo 3 did have great storytelling, it was due to a very high budget and the story was still crap/fluff. Apparently good story and aRPG can never coincide, god knows why, but as long as the gameplay elements are great it is a great game.
As for GFX, I don't know which Diablo 3 played, but it looked to me nothing more than average. It just had more clutter. |
Oh, there are smart people out there - but it's not so much a matter of intelligence, as it's a matter of wanting to be fair and objective.
If you can't see how a LOT of the positive responses to Torchlight 2 are somewhat exaggerated because of the D3 disappointment - then I guess we can just agree to disagree. |
Why wouild a previous disappointemt make another game better? I do not understand the argument. So this game would've been considered worse if Diablo 3 never happened?
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 12:33 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | So this game would've been considered worse if Diablo 3 never happened? |
i have to agree with Casus, TL2 did receive much (arguably undeserved) praise due to D3's fail and people's anger towards that game.
except RMAH and online only drm crap, D3 is a pretty damn good arpg.
TL2 is a nice game and all, but if i had to choose between the two I would pick D3.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 12:45 Post subject: |
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| Intel_NVIDIA wrote: | i have to agree with Casus, TL2 did receive much (arguably undeserved) praise due to D3's fail and people's anger towards that game.
except RMAH and online only drm crap, D3 is a pretty damn good arpg.
TL2 is a nice game and all, but if i had to choose between the two I would pick D3. |
You only consider the RMAH and internet requirement as its failures? How about the terrible loot, drop rates, boring bosses, inferno brick wall, failure to address the problems (nerfing Inferno was not the way to fix it)? And while D3's art direction and design is fantastic, the crappy ass textures don't do the trick either. Diablo himself was also the biggest fucking letdown of any boss in any game ever, what a pussy 
I've found more good loot in TL2 than I ever did in D3; none of it to the extent where it would suddenly make me twice as powerful, but all good upgrades nonetheless. Some of the praise is exaggerated, but that doesn't take away from the fact that TL2 executes the gameplay mechanics properly, unlike D3.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 12:57 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why wouild a previous disappointemt make another game better? I do not understand the argument. So this game would've been considered worse if Diablo 3 never happened? |
That's my point - it doesn't. That's why the praise is exaggerated.
It's a natural human response when you find something that's NOT like what you're currently very disappointed by.
TL2 has flaws - and the primary ones are about a profound lack of underpinning in terms of lore/story/world. It's blatantly focused on combat/loot.
It's a very superficial game - and though people are prone to call the entire action RPG genre very superficial, it doesn't have to be.
If you combine a strong story with a meaningful and engaging world - you will have an underpinning that helps a lot as a support structure for the core gameplay.
Doesn't mean that TL2 is a bad game, because it's not. I really like it - and it has an excellent flow with great itemization.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 13:11 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | You only consider the RMAH and internet requirement as its failures? How about the terrible loot, drop rates, boring bosses, inferno brick wall, failure to address the problems (nerfing Inferno was not the way to fix it)? And while D3's art direction and design is fantastic, the crappy ass textures don't do the trick either. Diablo himself was also the biggest fucking letdown of any boss in any game ever, what a pussy
I've found more good loot in TL2 than I ever did in D3; none of it to the extent where it would suddenly make me twice as powerful, but all good upgrades nonetheless. Some of the praise is exaggerated, but that doesn't take away from the fact that TL2 executes the gameplay mechanics properly, unlike D3. |
bad loot and drop rates in D3 are related to RMAH, so i count that as one fail.
diablo 3 sold me on melee combat with physics, it really felt extremely powerful.
i agree on d3 bosses, huge let down.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 13:21 Post subject: |
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In my opinion, Diablo 3 looks much better, and I think the actual skills are far superior. The skill SYSTEM is awful and one of my primary complaints - but the animations and the sheer variety of skills is WAY beyond anything in Torchlight 2.
The story - while not very interesting - is still far better, and the presentation is clearly on another level.
However, beyond that - I have to say that TL2 is the better game, at least for the moment.
Diablo 3 is like an action RPG made by people who don't understand the genre, but who DO understand making games in general.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 13:22 Post subject: |
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| Intel_NVIDIA wrote: | | Werelds wrote: | You only consider the RMAH and internet requirement as its failures? How about the terrible loot, drop rates, boring bosses, inferno brick wall, failure to address the problems (nerfing Inferno was not the way to fix it)? And while D3's art direction and design is fantastic, the crappy ass textures don't do the trick either. Diablo himself was also the biggest fucking letdown of any boss in any game ever, what a pussy
I've found more good loot in TL2 than I ever did in D3; none of it to the extent where it would suddenly make me twice as powerful, but all good upgrades nonetheless. Some of the praise is exaggerated, but that doesn't take away from the fact that TL2 executes the gameplay mechanics properly, unlike D3. |
bad loot and drop rates in D3 are related to RMAH, so i count that as one fail.
diablo 3 sold me on melee combat with physics, it really felt extremely powerful.
i agree on d3 bosses, huge let down. |
I agree though D3 way way > TL2
Dont mess with God, he can impregnate your girlfriend/wife without taking his pants off!
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 13:38 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | In my opinion, Diablo 3 looks much better |
Like I said, the art direction is great, but to say it looks much better? TL2 has the same lighting capabilities but both suffer from fairly low quality assets. You may prefer D3's looks, but from a technical point of view neither looks better than the other. The big difference here is that TL2 will no doubt receive high-resolution mods, something that's not possible with D3. What staggers me however is how much bigger TL2 is, despite D3 having 10 times the budget; passion obviously goes a long way, D3 was in development for such a long time and it just doesn't show.
| Casus wrote: | | I think the actual skills are far superior. The skill SYSTEM is awful and one of my primary complaints - but the animations and the sheer variety of skills is WAY beyond anything in Torchlight 2. |
I partially agree here, the animations in D3 are far superior, they feel much more visceral ( ). The variety, not so much, because both have pretty extensive sets; D3 does have the rune system, which I think is fantastic, but on the other hand as a Barbarian, only half the skills are even remotely interesting and the same goes for the runes. Furthermore, something as simple as all melee weapons (bar claws) doing splash damage in TL2 actually makes a lot of sense - how the fuck does one swing a bigass axe horizontally and only hit one enemy? 
The tier system in TL2 is also good though, at least for Outlander it makes putting points in Glaive for example much more interesting than just the "MOAR DAMAGE" part.
Story in D3 is definitely better (albeit still very generic) and the way it's told is much superior, I'll give you that.
Overall, D3 has the better presentation, but TL2 is *by far* the one with the better gameplay and ultimately, that's what matters to me. Mods are what'll make this game even better though and they'll give the game the longevity D3 will never have. I enjoyed my playthroughs of D3, but unlike D2 I have absolutely no desire to ever play it again, Blizzard have already shown they have lost all clues when it comes to fixing it. The WoW team clearly had their hand in the game; they fucked WoW up and they fucked D3 up too 
And I guess that's the last thing about TL2: you can say about Runic what you want, but with TL1 they showed tremendous support and it looks like they will here as well. They listen much more to their community, so we can only hope that the issues some have with skills will be resolved soon.
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prudislav
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 13:58 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Casus wrote: | | In my opinion, Diablo 3 looks much better |
Like I said, the art direction is great, but to say it looks much better? TL2 has the same lighting capabilities but both suffer from fairly low quality assets. You may prefer D3's looks, but from a technical point of view neither looks better than the other. The big difference here is that TL2 will no doubt receive high-resolution mods, something that's not possible with D3. What staggers me however is how much bigger TL2 is, despite D3 having 10 times the budget; passion obviously goes a long way, D3 was in development for such a long time and it just doesn't show. |
Yes, you did say the art direction is better - and I agree. But the art direction is also incredibly important - much more so than texture resolution and such.
I think the world is clearly made with more love and craftsmanship in Diablo 3. Blizzard are fantastic at this - and Diablo 3 is no different. In fact, everything from mood/lighting to character animations/concepts is far FAR better looking in Diablo 3.
Naturally, that's just my opinion.
As for mods, I can't compare based on future eventualities. I will have to wait and see.
| Quote: | I partially agree here, the animations in D3 are far superior, they feel much more visceral (). The variety, not so much, because both have pretty extensive sets; D3 does have the rune system, which I think is fantastic, but on the other hand as a Barbarian, only half the skills are even remotely interesting and the same goes for the runes. Furthermore, something as simple as all melee weapons (bar claws) doing splash damage in TL2 actually makes a lot of sense - how the fuck does one swing a bigass axe horizontally and only hit one enemy?
The tier system in TL2 is also good though, at least for Outlander it makes putting points in Glaive for example much more interesting than just the "MOAR DAMAGE" part. |
Well, I don't play Barbarian - but I think the Monk/Demon Hunter has a MUCH more interesting arsenal in terms of visceral punch and skill variety. I also play the Outlander in TL2 - and I think the options are somewhat limited, and I don't like the large focus on minions.
Don't get me wrong, there IS variety - and it's clearly possible to have several builds - but I don't think it compares favorably with the ridiculous variety of Diablo 3 skills with runes.
| Quote: | | Overall, D3 has the better presentation, but TL2 is *by far* the one with the better gameplay and ultimately, that's what matters to me. Mods are what'll make this game even better though and they'll give the game the longevity D3 will never have. I enjoyed my playthroughs of D3, but unlike D2 I have absolutely no desire to ever play it again, Blizzard have already shown they have lost all clues when it comes to fixing it. The WoW team clearly had their hand in the game; they fucked WoW up and they fucked D3 up too |
Yeah, TL2 has much better itemization and the skill system is clearly the way to go - at least in my opinion. As for moment-to-moment gameplay, I think they're pretty close.
| Quote: | | And I guess that's the last thing about TL2: you can say about Runic what you want, but with TL1 they showed tremendous support and it looks like they will here as well. They listen much more to their community, so we can only hope that the issues some have with skills will be resolved soon. |
Ehm, I don't really know about this. Blizzard have made some very serious changes to their itemization and the balance. I think they listen quite a lot, actually.
In fact, I think their fault is that they listen TOO much to feedback. Their entire design process is basically one long iterative process, where the feedback from internal and external testers is given too much weight.
Why? Because the iterative process is, by nature, a short-term concept. The issue with that is that Diablo is very much a long-term design. You have to understand design and especially the genre you're dealing with - and I think it's obvious that Jay Wilson and Co. simply didn't understand Diablo.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:21 Post subject: |
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Well, they hadn't listened for shit with the first few patches. They were all about nerfing the crap out of Inferno, rather than fixing the broken skills and balance; the balance is/was the problem on Inferno, not the actual difficulty. Even if it's better now, that's still too little, too late.
Mind you, I did play on a Demon Hunter as well and the difference is absolutely staggering. My barbarian was already running around in 45mil worth of gear when I decided to get my DH to 60. She hit 60, I had a few items ready for her and that was already enough to blast straight through A1 and A2. Obviously she couldn't tank shit, but the fact that her damage output could be applied without having to get up close made all the difference. The incoming physical, melee damage in D3 is (or was) absolutely ridiculous and 3 patches in, they still hadn't figured that one out even though every Barb was screaming it on the forums - including dipshits like Crapparian. No hint that patch #4 would fix it either. For monks it's a little different due to their high natural dodge chance and more avoidance/healing abilities, but even as a monk you must've experienced the joys of getting one-shot-buttfucked by a little imp in A2 (unless you leveled that post-nerf, then it may have been doable)
Same thing happened in WoW - I won't go into detail as I don't know whether you did high-end raiding in that (plus I'll probably anger the remaining WoW dipshits), but I can't say I agree Blizzard tend to listen. Ever.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:24 Post subject: |
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Well I finished Diablo 3 (on normal though) and I have played TL2 a fair bit, imo the only thing Diablo 3 does better is presentation. If the budget was even close to what Blizzard has, this game would have such presentation too.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:28 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Well, they hadn't listened for shit with the first few patches. They were all about nerfing the crap out of Inferno, rather than fixing the broken skills and balance; the balance is/was the problem on Inferno, not the actual difficulty. Even if it's better now, that's still too little, too late.
Mind you, I did play on a Demon Hunter as well and the difference is absolutely staggering. My barbarian was already running around in 45mil worth of gear when I decided to get my DH to 60. She hit 60, I had a few items ready for her and that was already enough to blast straight through A1 and A2. Obviously she couldn't tank shit, but the fact that her damage output could be applied without having to get up close made all the difference. The incoming physical, melee damage in D3 is (or was) absolutely ridiculous and 3 patches in, they still hadn't figured that one out even though every Barb was screaming it on the forums - including dipshits like Crapparian. No hint that patch #4 would fix it either. For monks it's a little different due to their high natural dodge chance and more avoidance/healing abilities, but even as a monk you must've experienced the joys of getting one-shot-buttfucked by a little imp in A2 (unless you leveled that post-nerf, then it may have been doable)
Same thing happened in WoW - I won't go into detail as I don't know whether you did high-end raiding in that (plus I'll probably anger the remaining WoW dipshits), but I can't say I agree Blizzard tend to listen. Ever. |
You sound pretty aggressive
But, yeah, I did top-end raiding in WoW for 3 years - and I'm not being immodest when I say I was a pretty good Rogue.
I'm not going to claim that Inferno was a brilliant decision - but I think they've done a lot to improve it.
That you're not satisfied is fair enough, that's your opinion. I think it's a lot harder to please every single player in terms of balance - especially when it's about something like Inferno which was MEANT to be extremely punishing. People don't react well to getting their asses kicked - and it was a very strange end-game design for Blizzard, being the mother of mainstream appeal.
The latest change they're coming with in the imminent patch - where you can choose your own difficulty sounds like the right thing. Again, a significant change.
Frankly, you sound like you've been personally insulted by Blizzard - and that's hardly an objective position.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:30 Post subject: |
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TL2 is now playing with the "big guys" and no longer has the "indie bonus" which TL1 had. Minor bugs and game flaws were generously overlooked. For example: I don't get why they didn't implent a full respec feature. IIRC that was one of the most downloaded mods for TL1. Big sign that people want this feature and make use of it. But well, I won't complain about a game that cost ~20€ and has MP + mod support.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:40 Post subject: |
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I must've accidentally went into the Diablo 3 thread again.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 14:52 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | You sound pretty aggressive |
I know, but that's mostly because people forget how big D3's budget was and how shit it was put to use (as with most AAA games)
Not to mention Blizzard ridiculous revenue and inability deal with the load they get after almost SEVEN years of running WoW (well, failing to, shit still failed miserably with WotLK when I quit). I really don't get how people can ever justify that when Blizzard make well over 100mil a month from WoW alone. I've played and loved almost every Blizzard game; WC3 was not entirely to my taste (but custom maps made up for it), but up to that point they were brilliant.
I would go deeper into WoW but this thread is not the place; suffice it to say that if you did high-end raiding, you should very well know how badly they fucked things up for us. Sunwell Plateau should've been insanely epic, instead it was even worse than the rest of TBC (post-nerfbat especially) and put our guild into a 6-month hiatus out of pure boredom. Only to come back and give up after 3 weeks again. I sunk too much money into that game because my friends and guildmates didn't want to lose me and I didn't want to let them down (I was one of the few who'd play whatever was necessary; my own char being a hunter, but I've tanked and healed my way through just about every fight in Vanilla+TBC). So yes, I'm bitter about Blizzard not listening for shit 
The problem with Inferno wasn't the ass kicking, it was the erm...class-ism? My DH in mostly picked up rares was able to deal with Inferno much better than my pretty well geared Barb. I don't mind getting my ass kicked, in fact, I expect games to do so at higher difficulties, but that's not what Inferno was
So far, TL2 doesn't seem to have that; I've read that SP is pretty easy, but in co-op the difficulty is just right and it just grows as you do. There's no brick wall that comes out of nowhere that forces you to go from 17k->45k HP, 100->700+ resist, 4.5k->9k armour. It's just extremely well balanced, you have these periods where you're struggling a bit, and then you get those two good drops that bring up to par again. Then you get to a boss (which are amazing btw) and you actually have to put in some serious effort to get them down.
Again, this is all based on co-op, so maybe in SP things are too easy, I don't know
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 15:04 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Casus wrote: | | You sound pretty aggressive |
I know, but that's mostly because people forget how big D3's budget was and how shit it was put to use (as with most AAA games) |
I won't disagree that Diablo 3 was a major disappointment. But, it would have been a major disappointment no matter what budget it was made on. The production values are great - it's the design that's awful.
| Quote: | | Not to mention Blizzard ridiculous revenue and inability deal with the load they get after almost SEVEN years of running WoW (well, failing to, shit still failed miserably with WotLK when I quit). I really don't get how people can ever justify that when Blizzard make well over 100mil a month from WoW alone. I've played and loved almost every Blizzard game; WC3 was not entirely to my taste (but custom maps made up for it), but up to that point they were brilliant. I would go deeper into WoW but this thread is not the place; suffice it to say that if you did high-end raiding, you should very well know how badly they fucked things up for us. Sunwell Plateau should've been insanely epic, instead it was even worse than the rest of TBC (post-nerfbat especially) and put our guild into a 6-month hiatus out of pure boredom. Only to come back and give up after 3 weeks again. I sunk too much money into that game because my friends and guildmates didn't want to lose me (I was one of the few who'd play whatever was necessary; my own char being a hunter, but I've tanked and healed my way through just about every fight in Vanilla+TBC). So yes, I'm bitter about Blizzard not listening for shit |
You know what? I played WoW intensely (and that's putting it lightly) for 3 years. I think vanilla was an absolute masterpiece all things considered.
Did they take it in the direction I wanted? No, quite the opposite. They chose to focus on the mainstream audience almost exclusively - and I think their PvP approach is just about the biggest waste of potential I can think of.
But I don't think it's fair to be that harsh on a game that I've enjoyed possibly more than any other game in my life. I can't expect money to somehow turn developers or designers into people with my own personal vision and tastes.
Millions are still playing and enjoying it.
You can't expect Blizzard to listen to you or those like you. They're not obligated to design anything for your personal benefit. I simply don't think it's reasonable to turn it into something personal.
To discount all the good things and the fantastic content of WotLK and the upcoming Pandaria - is to willfully ignore reality.
It is what it is, and they're doing what they want with their own game. You're not obligated to play it or pay for it.
Dislike it? Fine - I fully understand. I dislike a LOT of what they've done to the game, myself.
But making it personal and becoming bitter about it, is silly and overly subjective.
| Quote: | | Again, this is all based on co-op, so maybe in SP things are too easy, I don't know |
It was a lot easier in SP, yes, but Inferno was still a mess for melee characters. I think the general concept is good - but the itemization and the reliance on AH for good items is absolutely abysmal.
So, my issue with Inferno was more about other things - rather than the difficulty setting in itself.
Then again, I don't expect games to be balanced - ever. With the amount of factors involved in balancing games like Diablo 3 or WoW - you'd have to be ignorant of reality to expect balance. All you can get is a reasonable attempt - and for my part, I think WoW/D3 are far from the worst examples of balance-issues out there.
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Werelds
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 16:17 Post subject: |
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@ Casus: vanilla WoW was an absolute masterpiece indeed. Well designed encounters, very few nerfs throughout (PvE that is, the PvP balance took a while to get right) and just about the right amount of farming required.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for targeting mainstream. What Blizzard does nowadays however, is ignore their other, huge crowd which are people like me. Especially in a H&S or MMO such as WoW, there are so many ways to cater to everyone, from the 1hr/week to the 8hr/day people (gladly I was never one of that last group  ). More importantly, they invited several of the big guilds on multiple occasions to test new content (both PvP and PvE wise), only to disregard their (and ours) input anyway. It's kinda like id did with Q4; rather than making sure the MP was still what made Q1 to 3 so great (and best-sellers), they handed it off to Raven and allowed them to fuck it up. None of this is highly subjective, asking for input and ignoring it is just stupid no matter who does it.
Oh, and that last remark about co-op was about TL2; I know D3 was still fucked in SP for melee 
Obviously, remains to be seen whether Runic really will take community feedback to heart, but I have higher hopes for them than I did/do for Blizzard
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 16:44 Post subject: |
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xExtreme
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 17:02 Post subject: |
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| human_steel wrote: | | How many acts are there? |
Four as I understand, ACT I and ACT II are suppose to be longest ones, just reached ACT III and explored a bit.
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JBeckman
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briangw
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 21:19 Post subject: |
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This game is awesome. The thing that impresses me the most is the actual combat. It reminds me more of a MOBA game than a standard ARPG. The charge meter is quite brilliant. It takes a while to truly appreciate the awesomeness that is TL2. But once you see the depth of the combat system and how it's important to build a good "kit", you start understand that it's quite deep and involved. GOTY for me, esp. at $20.
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| Posted: Mon, 24th Sep 2012 21:21 Post subject: ***** |
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*****
Last edited by Areius on Fri, 19th Sep 2025 16:10; edited 1 time in total
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue, 25th Sep 2012 02:19 Post subject: |
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anyone find all parts of the robot? i only found 2, idk how many are there....
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