| Page 20 of 114 |
|
|
 Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:04 Post subject: |
|
 |
| Roger_Young wrote: | | After all even pirates must have their code of honour (whatever that is). |
Booty is to be distributed by teh captain (as he is the only one with any math knowledge).
No more then two pints of grog while on watch duty.
Don't rape the parrot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:13 Post subject: |
|
|
i kinda agree with Aeterum, like for ex why you need 200.000$ to make a player house? and what does 2.8 million has to do with goerge zietz? is he gonna take that 100.000 all for himself? and why would they need 500.000! to make a new city? it just seems something like DLC that's all. give us a ton more money and we will add stuff that's not that costly also makes you wonder how the game would have actually been in terms of scale with out those extra funds?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:19 Post subject: |
|
|
Then don't back it. Put your "money" where your mouth is. If Kickstarter is so evil and abhorrent and they're stealing all your moniez; Don't back, don't pirate, don't play.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:19 Post subject: |
|
|
| fable2 wrote: | | i kinda agree with Aeterum, like for ex why you need 200.000$ to make a player house? |
To take this one as an example: needs a whole bunch of new mechanics to be programmed, it needs to be designed. Tests need to be written, code needs to be documented. Then it needs to be thoroughly tested, over and over throughout the development process of the entire game. And I'm not even taking the iterative process of getting to the point where it's going to be implemented into account yet.
Some of you really need to get some experience if you haven't worked on a large project like this before; and if you don't know programming at all, just be quiet, really. The 200 grand for the house is certainly not what it costs to make, but it's also not the 10 grand some of you seem to think it costs. There's a lot more involved than you may think. The stretch goals certainly are a tool to get more money, but I don't give a fuck; I've pledged what I wanted to pledge, they're not forcing me to pledge more and I do still get the bigger and better game.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:22 Post subject: |
|
|
| Werelds wrote: | | Some of you really need to get some experience if you haven't worked on a large project like this before; and if you don't know programming at all, just be quiet, really. The 200 grand for the house is certainly not what it costs to make, but it's also not the 10 grand some of you seem to think it costs. There's a lot more involved than you may think. |
THIS and ONLY this.
Building an entire city, which means populating with characters who all have their own AI routines and scripts, filling the city with objects and scripts and interactives, building each room and each wall and each door in every area, takes time and it takes skill -- which means it takes money to hire and salary the people that provide that skill.
Everyone is so convinced that making a game only costs a few pennies and a bowl of gruel  I think Chris Roberts gave the best example;
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/
"Why so much money?"
That's why. That's a list of person's average salary and considering ObsEnt is no small-time studio, I think that's a very optimistic average too. Does everyone think it takes one person to create, test, populate and design an entire city for - what is promising to be - a huge and expansive game?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:29 Post subject: |
|
|
What people don't seem to get about these stretch goals is that people ask for them in the first place, they want the developers to make them pledge more and they need an impulse in order to do that. Also, the goals are mostly approximations. I think Arthur Bruno from Crate said that not reaching one of those goals doesn't mean it won't get into the game anyway. In other words these stretch goals are just a way to say "we'll put more content into the game" in a more detailed manner. Also, more content means more time and for a lot of these developers, it also means hiring more people to work on the game they're making.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:54 Post subject: |
|
|
| fable2 wrote: | | just to create another major city |
"just"
Again, what exactly do you do for a living? Ask any of the people who work on bigger projects here on the hump (not necessarily programming or artwork) just how much work something that seems so simple can be. If they choose to respond in here, there's a few on the hump that know how much non-work is involved as well. I myself have done some contract work where I've had to spend about as much work doing all kinds of things that weren't part of actually implementing whatever I had to implement. And Sabin's table highlights another fact: costs that are implied, things like insurances and stuff that need to be covered during the extra development time.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:57 Post subject: |
|
|
Dont mind Sabin, he seems to be invested in Kickstarter too much so he wont let anyone argue about they way they do business.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 13:59 Post subject: |
|
|
And you seem to be too invested into hating them to have a twisted view of the world. Your point being?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:03 Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not going to discuss it further, if arguing about something automatically means that you "hate" it then there is no point.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:04 Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeternum wrote: | | Dont mind Sabin, he seems to be invested in Kickstarter too much so he wont let anyone argue about they way they do business. |
Argue all you want, you're still so far off base that it's not even worth paying attention. Or, as Paul said; you're too invested into hating Kickstarter and your view of the world, and software development, is seriously skewed.
| fable2 wrote: | i am just a cheap bastard that's all  |
So don't pay anything more than base level? You'd still be doing better than I have, since I haven't got ANY money with which to back. Though I certainly would if I had the cash! I've backed four projects so far and all four have achieved their funding goal, so sometime in 2013 - I'll have four awesome new games to play, games that exist solely because of people like me having the faith and funding for them.
That's why I like Kickstarter, because it cuts out the money-hungry leeches and allows project to succeed after being refused elsewhere. Projects WE want (or so some of us loftily claim until money is required, then suddenly they're all snippy and unhappy)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:09 Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeternum wrote: | | I'm not going to discuss it further, if arguing about something automatically means that you "hate" it then there is no point. |
You're not discussing or arguing anything, you fail to see reason. Do you have any clue as to what costs are involved? No? Then be quiet and read. I'll say it again, but here on the hump we have people who work at huge multinationals, people who work at indie studios and each and every one of them will tell you that there's much more involved than just the salaries of people involved or time spent implementing something. I won't speak for them (hence, no names), but I have no doubt they can back me up on this.
I've done work for Océ (now Canon), Vodafone, Chanel, Dell and a ton of other companies both when I was a student and now as third party contractor. Even I have a pretty hefty overhead on the contracts I take, because I have a lot more costs than you'd think.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:15 Post subject: |
|
|
i wonder how accurate their estimations are though werelds? let's for ex they actually had an extra 50,000$ after all is done which i think is plausible, what would they do with the money? a raise in pay for everyone, or they would actually use it to further the development? i would like to know if the will og went for development or just as a bonus to the devs and they didn't use any of it on the actual game, their estimates would have to be accurate.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:26 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Werelds wrote: | | Some of you really need to get some experience if you haven't worked on a large project like this before; and if you don't know programming at all, just be quiet, really. The 200 grand for the house is certainly not what it costs to make, but it's also not the 10 grand some of you seem to think it costs. There's a lot more involved than you may think. |
THIS and ONLY this.
Building an entire city, which means populating with characters who all have their own AI routines and scripts, filling the city with objects and scripts and interactives, building each room and each wall and each door in every area, takes time and it takes skill -- which means it takes money to hire and salary the people that provide that skill.
Everyone is so convinced that making a game only costs a few pennies and a bowl of gruel I think Chris Roberts gave the best example;
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/
"Why so much money?"
|
Programmers getting the most dough  that's what I wanted to see, they are creating the world after all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 14:58 Post subject: |
|
|
And another one bites the (ignore) dust it seems.
FFS, what is so hard to understand anout stretch goals? More complex mechanics/world=More people involved=more money needed. People WANT them, people PAY for them.
I remember when some people (I used to know  ) argued that games should cost a lot less than 70 PLN, because "they can burnz a CD* for 3 and print a box for 7" ( I am not even joking ).
Yep, because making a game is as simple as burning something on a CD and printing a box in your printer. Game designers needing money? What witchery hath the nineteenth century wrought!
*it was a long time ago 
| sin317 wrote: |
typical jew comment
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 15:00 Post subject: |
|
|
3 000 000$, I predict it will end at around 3.4-3.5.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 15:23 Post subject: |
|
|
Also keep in mind that even 5 million would still be an extremely modest budget, if you look at AAA budgets.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34664
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 15:50 Post subject: |
|
|
But at least they're not spending millions on marketing or such, although I don't actually know what the developers themselves get to work with after these large AAA title investments since most is likely handled externally by the publishers.
(With some exceptions.)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 16:08 Post subject: |
|
|
Don't forget that the paypal should be around 100k by now. Most of the developing costs are coming from voice overs, awesome cinematics and marketing. The industry forgot that if we want to watch a movie we go to the theatre, or wait for one of the premium channels to show it. We want to PLAY games, not to WATCH them.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 16:10 Post subject: |
|
|
Out of 35 million$ EA probably spends half of that on marketing.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 16:22 Post subject: |
|
|
| Roger_Young wrote: | | griniaris wrote: | But then, what's this Code you speak about?  |
Maybe I've watched many Pirate movies during my childhood. But everybody knows there's always a code of some sort involved. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_code
| Werelds wrote: | | fable2 wrote: | | i kinda agree with Aeterum, like for ex why you need 200.000$ to make a player house? |
Some of you really need to get some experience if you haven't worked on a large project like this before; and if you don't know programming at all, just be quiet, really. The 200 grand for the house is certainly not what it costs to make, but it's also not the 10 grand some of you seem to think it costs. There's a lot more involved than you may think. The stretch goals certainly are a tool to get more money, but I don't give a fuck; I've pledged what I wanted to pledge, they're not forcing me to pledge more and I do still get the bigger and better game. |
This. |
Not good enough. Not even close 
And how can we know, that the goals they put aren't in their first schedule?
For me, their goals are only a promotional tool. And in no way it's GUARANTEED that they make a better game, if they achieved.
And if they already have sell many units of their game know, they maybe have no real motivation to invest in ways they make a better game but are costly, as they allready cash the money and make bigger profit for themselves.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 16:43 Post subject: |
|
|
| griniaris wrote: | | Roger_Young wrote: | | griniaris wrote: | | But then, what's this Code you speak about? |
Maybe I've watched many Pirate movies during my childhood. But everybody knows there's always a code of some sort involved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_code
| Werelds wrote: |
Some of you really need to get some experience if you haven't worked on a large project like this before; and if you don't know programming at all, just be quiet, really. The 200 grand for the house is certainly not what it costs to make, but it's also not the 10 grand some of you seem to think it costs. There's a lot more involved than you may think. The stretch goals certainly are a tool to get more money, but I don't give a fuck; I've pledged what I wanted to pledge, they're not forcing me to pledge more and I do still get the bigger and better game. |
This. |
Not good enough. Not even close
And how can we know, that the goals they put aren't in their first schedule?
For me, their goals are only a promotional tool. And in no way it's GUARANTEED that they make a better game, if they achieved.
And if they already have sell many units of their game know, they maybe have no real motivation to invest in ways they make a better game but are costly, as they allready cash the money and make bigger profit for themselves. |
Who cares what they do with the money, really?
The only thing that matter is, will it be a good game or not. If they spend 1$ on the game and it turn out great and the rest 2 999 999$ they take in profit, so be it.
If they do that and the game suck, they will never sell a game again under the name obsidian. And tbh, i think that IP/name is worth more than 3 mil $ so why would they do that.
So why don't you take your trolling and ugly avatar and go hide under the rock you came from, k thx!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 16:44 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beyond1
Posts: 659
Location: The Milky Way
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vaifan1986
Posts: 4638
Location: Birthplace of the necktie.
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 17:05 Post subject: |
|
|
I don't understand why there's a discussion about this anyway. How do stretch goals affect anyone?
To those who've pledged, it's a look into what might be in the game(regardless of whether the goal is reached).
To those who've not yet pledged but plan to, it's just another reason to do it.
To those who haven't pledged, and don't intend to, it's of no fucking concern.
Micek:
i7 4790K @ 4.6GHz- Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 3 - 980 WF3 \o/ - 16GB Corsair - WD 4TB - Mountain of SSDs - Dell UltraSharp U2414H 24''
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 14th Oct 2012 17:05 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 20 of 114 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
