That would literally only happen if the enemy team spent the entire game sitting in their fountain.
Axe is my favorite, most played, and most successful hero and let me tell you, Axe is shit. No damage, virtually no scaling into late game. Axe is just a glorified creep with a couple of skills. Once people get their items and skills Axe is done. Just ignore Axe because he can't do shit after he calls.
Incredibly fed heroes killing people 15 minutes into a game is not an example of snowballing. Snowballing is when a small lead turns into an insurmountable one over the course of a game.
For example: in LoL the team that takes as little as a 10% gold lead by 12 minutes wins over 90% of the time.
That is snowballing. One small lead just grows and grows.
The fact that huge plays like the ones you are linking happen in Dota 2 has nothing to do with snowballing, and it is actually part of the reason why it's less snowballey than LoL, big plays can happen thanks to the hero design and even the biggest leads can be thrown away. In LoL everything is so homogenized and 'balanced' down that a small gold lead early on is usually all it takes to win at the highest level.
In LoL everything is so homogenized and 'balanced' down that a small gold lead early on is usually all it takes to win at the highest level.
That's mostly a consequence of the design decision to allow every hero to scale, to some extent, into the lategame. Unlike Dota2, almost every skill in LoL has some form of scaling - either from ability power or attack damage - and so a team with more gold will be able to keep that advantage to lategame, unless the other team outplays them (either by gradually outfarming them, taking unguarded objectives such as dragons and towers, or teamfight positioning). Of course, exceptions apply, such as some heroes scaling a bit better than others etc.
Based on my limited knowledge of Dota2, you have heroes who scale with items and heroes who don't (at least in Dota this was true). So a gold lead doesn't mean that much if your team scales much worse into the lategame and you can't finish the game before the endgame kicks in. It's not good or bad, it's just different.
Keep in mind though that a 10% gold lead in LoL is quite substantial. 10% more gold across the team does not simply mean having 10% more cs, since everyone gets the passive gold per minute and there are also other forms of gold income such as gold per time items, the jungle etc.
I don't know if you know Smite, but it's more fun than either Dota or LoL imo. Granted, I only played each game about 1 hour before deciding but still..
I guess it's less complicated than other moba games, but I don't really care . I like the progression, heroes and skills better (although the amount of heroes is fairly limited compared to other games I guess.
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
Some bullshit here.
You do not get banned if you pick and play outside of meta. You do not get banned if you random, you get banned for trolling ranked play, you can "random" in normals all you want.
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
Some bullshit here.
You do not get banned if you pick and play outside of meta. You do not get banned if you random, you get banned for trolling ranked play, you can "random" in normals all you want.
If you are super hard core, DOTA 2 might be the way to go. The whole reward/punish though makes it extra brutal for any mistake, i.e. you lose money and they gain money upon death. I also am not a fan of the hyper carries either, as they can pretty much 1vs5 a team. But, you do get all the champs for free and it's wildly popular. Like any MOBA game though, prepare to dedicate a shitload of time to it.
Personally, I still love LoL. I play it here and there, but it was my main game for about 2 years. It can get expensive as hell though if you want to buy the champions. I've spent probably $500+ on that game since I started playing it way back. With the inclusion of classic (summoners rift), Dominion (capture and hold, I personally played it exclusively when it came out forever .. well, 500+ normal game wins) and the Proving Grounds (All Random All Mid - ARAM), there is a lot going on. Definitely worth trying them both and both are hard core, depending on the ELO at which you play. Obviously, LoL is a bit more "casual" overall and maybe easier to get in to, esp. if you aren't a DOTA vet.
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
Some bullshit here.
You do not get banned if you pick and play outside of meta. You do not get banned if you random, you get banned for trolling ranked play, you can "random" in normals all you want.
Can't even get through the heads of LoL players.
"You don't get banned for randoming, only trolling, btw randoming is trolling"
That's why LoL is so awful. If you do anything but play the one specific, highly rigid meta in ladder games you are a "troll" what horrible game design that is.Creativity is frowned upon, and people will line up to defend it.
Millions of people like spawning behind eachother and taking turns shooting one another in the back in CoD too, so I guess there's just no accounting for taste
So I'm growing, as ever, bored of all the online games I currently own. I'm at that age I guess, not much time and I've spent so much of my life gaming that I yearn for something new and to be fair, I've never really given the DOTA genre much of a chance.
I bought HON way back in alpha (I was a big s2 fan and spent a lot of time in the alpha/beta) and it was great, but as I didn't play it much I wasn't that good. On release the community was atrocious, filled with aggressive and abusive players who screamed at noobs (like myself ). So I stopped even trying to play.
Now there are 3 options, I intend on trying them all over the next week but figured I would come here and ask what people thought of the above, what they play and why?
I'm not sure you realize the wrath you unleashed with that.
Imo the communities of all 3 games are toxic as toxic can be (and mind you I'm an avid LoL player, so I'm not talking out of my ass here entirely).
I was gonna put a whole giant wall of text in here making my case for LoL, telling you what I dislike about DotA2 and completely ignoring HoN because... seriously. Fuck HoN.
The best thing you can do is just play and see what you like better / what suits your playstyle better.
Imo the worst thing you can do is actually listen to people in this case. Just look at this thread. Look at how quickly it devolved into "my game is better than yours"
(and don't get me wrong, I'm barely resisting the urge to defend LoL till my last breath in here)
Much of what gets thrown around by either side is crappy hearsay and half-knowledge.
Just check them both out, see what floats your boat.
p.s.
Ok, one little stab I can't surpress. Don't EVER mention in a game of DotA2 that you play/played LoL. You are gonna get harassed and flamed till kingdom come (at least that was/is my experience).
At least LoL players have the decency to just flame you, blame you, call you names and go into minute detail why they think you suck. xD
Found this post on the net, might be usefull (is already an older post but most points are still valid)
Quote:
DotA
Pros:
The original concept
Has every Hero
Balanced by Icefrog
Cons:
Leavers
Graphics
Limited by WCIII engine
Heroes of Newerth
Pros:
Faster gameplay
Graphics
Similar to DotA in playstyle
Matchmaking
Stat Tracking
Leaver penalty
Reconnect Feature
S2 Original Heroes
Shop Interface
Cons:
Not balanced by IceFrog
Not all heroes are ported from DotA
$30 Fee (Possible to trial)
People aren't used to item names
DotA Heroes were slightly changed
League of Legends
Pros:
Completely different playstyle from DotA
Casual/Beginner friendly
Matchmaking
Stat Tracking
Leaver penalty
Reconnect Feature
"Free"
Original Heroes
Cons:
Riot Points
Completely different playstyle from DotA
Casual
Balance is supposedly awful
Little/No Competitive scene
DotA 2
Pros:
DotA trademarked name. Attractive to old DotA players
Will have every Hero ported from DotA
Balanced by IceFrog
Run by Valve
Cons:
Not currently released
Little information
No updates since November 1st
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
Found this post on the net, might be usefull (is already an older post but most points are still valid)
Quote:
League of Legends
Pros:
Completely different playstyle from DotA - (kind of, Dominion mode and Proving grounds are totally different though.
Casual/Beginner friendly - (definitely more beginner/casual friendly. still pretty hard core, esp. at the higher end)
Matchmaking - (elo system for normal and ranked games, pretty easy to find a game. can play vs. bots too as you are learning)
Stat Tracking - (yea, it tracks some stats)
Leaver penalty - (this helps some, not perfect, but has improved over time)
Reconnect Feature - (it usually works without problems)
"Free" - (yea, if you really like it though and get "hooked", expect to start throwing down cash if you want to own champs. takes like 2 weeks to save up for the 6300 IP (influence points) champs)
Original Heroes - (tons of heroes, newer ones have some interesting mechanics)
Cons:
Riot Points - (they will cost you plenty, champs and skins are like $7.50 each, so it's not cheap at all)
Completely different playstyle from DotA - (dominion and Proving grounds are nothing like DOTA. very team oriented, no hyper carries that can 1vs5, easier to get in to if you don't know it well, but still steep learning curve for non MOBA players)
Casual - (casual or hard core as you want to make it, depends on what you want.)
Balance is supposedly awful - (I disagree, balance is pretty good, but the meta game is overall well established.. some season 3 changes have mixed things up a bit, but overall, it's quite well balanced. Riot has the bank roll to stay on top of things)
Little/No Competitive scene - (WTF? $5 million in season 2 in prizes. Very hard core competitive scene with insane amount of money for the top pros. Tons of streaming and what not. Game just is not quite as fast paced as DOTA 2, but watch some LoL plays of the week or tournaments)
I made comments on every point. Some accurate info, some not so much IMO. Play it and see. It is easier than DOTA 2 though. I get raped in DOTA 2, much because I never played DOTA 1 and some of the moves have so much range, you can barely see them in order to react. Also, the items are more complicated seeming that LoL as well. I like Valve's business model much better though. You get all the champs for free. LoL you pay out the ass. DOTA 2 is just too hard it seems unless you devote all your time to it. LoL is hard, but you can get experience and IP (influence points, the in-game currency) playing just against bots, which helps make it not quite so punishing to learn.
Can (mostly) only speak for League of Legends but little/no competitve scene? That's not true anymore. And I don't see how Riot Points are a con. Nobody forces you to buy them, you don't buy power with them so I don't see the point.
And I'm not sure if I'd call the balance awful. It's not the best balanced game ever but it's ok.
sabin1981 wrote:
Now you're just arguing semantics. Getting fucked in the ass with a broom stale is an "improvement" over getting stabbed in the eye with a fork
Like i said, this is a post i found on the internet (thus nothing has my input on it), just trying to help with some pro's and cons for each
For balance i can agree, new champs are 99% of the time super overpowered, then 2 weeks later they get nerfed.
But this is pure for selling purposes, they want to sell the new champ as much as possible, and what helps the best with that? Indeed, making it overpowered.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
So I'm growing, as ever, bored of all the online games I currently own. I'm at that age I guess, not much time and I've spent so much of my life gaming that I yearn for something new and to be fair, I've never really given the DOTA genre much of a chance.
I bought HON way back in alpha (I was a big s2 fan and spent a lot of time in the alpha/beta) and it was great, but as I didn't play it much I wasn't that good. On release the community was atrocious, filled with aggressive and abusive players who screamed at noobs (like myself ). So I stopped even trying to play.
Now there are 3 options, I intend on trying them all over the next week but figured I would come here and ask what people thought of the above, what they play and why?
I'm in the same boat you are, and I play League of Legends every day It's much more casual than either DOTA and HoN, and I have all the heroes/items unlocked since I have 6000+ referrals \o/. Sure the balance is shit, but the community is a lot better and the games tend to be more fun.
DOTA and HoN have a much steeper learning curve, and much less room for error. That and everyone will rage at you soon as you make 1 mistake, which you will since you are a noob. So my advice: go with LoL.
Also, LoL games are shorter. Dominion games for example take no brain power and are 12-25 minutes in length. Perfect for turning your brain off after a long day of work.
Like i said, this is a post i found on the internet (thus nothing has my input on it), just trying to help with some pro's and cons for each
For balance i can agree, new champs are 99% of the time super overpowered, then 2 weeks later they get nerfed.
But this is pure for selling purposes, they want to sell the new champ as much as possible, and what helps the best with that? Indeed, making it overpowered.
New champs overpowered? Wut. This isn't Tribes Ascend where every new gun instagibs the entire enemy team until everyone bought it and they nerf it.
Had a little chat with some of my LoL buddies and we pretty much agreed that the last champ that was blatantly overpowered on release was at least 6-7 champs ago.
Not saying the champs after that were underpowered or weak. Just not straight up broken.
I played LoL a lot. I stopped due comunity. People are so angry if you make small mistakes or even if you didnt make a mistake but they think you did.
I started Dota 2 since 2-3 months and Im starting to like it. Im playing against bots major time. Same kind of trouble with people yelling "fucking Noob, etc" is also not rare in Bots game... Dota2 has a steep learning curve, Lol is easier to learn.
In fact Im liking Dota2, and Im not coming back to Lol.
Im not sure about this, those itens in Dota2, are they only decorative? Is there any item from awards itens that have powers? And that chests , does it worth to buy keys to them?
but in LoL you have to spent some coins or shit in order to unlock heroes + skills for yourself, thus making it pay2win imo
You have to spend IP to get champs/runes, "skills" unlock by themselfs if you level up...
You get IP from playing games (and you always have too much IP leftover anyway).
Runes can't even be bought with money... (with exception buying the digital collecters pack, you get a few runes with it ye...)
The ONLY thing you can't buy with IP are skins, nothing more, nothing less.
So if you call that pay2win then you are reallly dumb
uhmmm unlocking heroes with more skills IS pay2win lol. you can be like "oh that hero would really fit with out team but i dont have him..."
what are your options then? you can buy your goddamn noobgame points or play a really long ass time to unlock said hero.
good luck with calling that anything other than pay2win, YOU must be dumb
Found this post on the net, might be usefull (is already an older post but most points are still valid)
Quote:
League of Legends
Pros:
Completely different playstyle from DotA - (kind of, Dominion mode and Proving grounds are totally different though.
Casual/Beginner friendly - (definitely more beginner/casual friendly. still pretty hard core, esp. at the higher end)
Matchmaking - (elo system for normal and ranked games, pretty easy to find a game. can play vs. bots too as you are learning)
Stat Tracking - (yea, it tracks some stats)
Leaver penalty - (this helps some, not perfect, but has improved over time)
Reconnect Feature - (it usually works without problems)
"Free" - (yea, if you really like it though and get "hooked", expect to start throwing down cash if you want to own champs. takes like 2 weeks to save up for the 6300 IP (influence points) champs)
Original Heroes - (tons of heroes, newer ones have some interesting mechanics)
Cons:
Riot Points - (they will cost you plenty, champs and skins are like $7.50 each, so it's not cheap at all)
Completely different playstyle from DotA - (dominion and Proving grounds are nothing like DOTA. very team oriented, no hyper carries that can 1vs5, easier to get in to if you don't know it well, but still steep learning curve for non MOBA players)
Casual - (casual or hard core as you want to make it, depends on what you want.)
Balance is supposedly awful - (I disagree, balance is pretty good, but the meta game is overall well established.. some season 3 changes have mixed things up a bit, but overall, it's quite well balanced. Riot has the bank roll to stay on top of things)
Little/No Competitive scene - (WTF? $5 million in season 2 in prizes. Very hard core competitive scene with insane amount of money for the top pros. Tons of streaming and what not. Game just is not quite as fast paced as DOTA 2, but watch some LoL plays of the week or tournaments)
I made comments on every point. Some accurate info, some not so much IMO. Play it and see. It is easier than DOTA 2 though. I get raped in DOTA 2, much because I never played DOTA 1 and some of the moves have so much range, you can barely see them in order to react. Also, the items are more complicated seeming that LoL as well. I like Valve's business model much better though. You get all the champs for free. LoL you pay out the ass. DOTA 2 is just too hard it seems unless you devote all your time to it. LoL is hard, but you can get experience and IP (influence points, the in-game currency) playing just against bots, which helps make it not quite so punishing to learn.
You get battlepoints that drop items when you level when you play against bots in dota 2 too. Atleast last time i checked
but in LoL you have to spent some coins or shit in order to unlock heroes + skills for yourself, thus making it pay2win imo
You have to spend IP to get champs/runes, "skills" unlock by themselfs if you level up...
You get IP from playing games (and you always have too much IP leftover anyway).
Runes can't even be bought with money... (with exception buying the digital collecters pack, you get a few runes with it ye...)
The ONLY thing you can't buy with IP are skins, nothing more, nothing less.
So if you call that pay2win then you are reallly dumb
uhmmm unlocking heroes with more skills IS pay2win lol. you can be like "oh that hero would really fit with out team but i dont have him..."
what are your options then? you can buy your goddamn noobgame points or play a really long ass time to unlock said hero.
good luck with calling that anything other than pay2win, YOU must be dumb
yep. You're obviously not biased against League of Legends. Not at all. Am I right, friend?
It's interesting how you make it sound like champion X would immediately make you better than champion Y.
So you don't have the champ that would fit the best (meaning, even if you had him you probably wouldn't be good with him). In that case you would be, either way, better of picking another champ that you are actually good with.
Yes, you can unlock champions with real cash but that's not pay2win. That's taking a shortcut for people who either do not have the time or are just too lazy to unlock all champs through playing the game.
I haven't bought a single champ with cash and I'm currently sitting at 35 champs. And I can always pick someone who fits the team (mind you there are - unless I counted wrong - 108 champions currently and the 109th is already on the horizon)
Am I missing some of the more "fun" (hello subjective description) champs? Sure. But I'll get them eventually.
I think you have an entirely wrong idea of pay2 win.
Or you just hate League of Legends. Sounds more like it's that.
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
Some bullshit here.
You do not get banned if you pick and play outside of meta. You do not get banned if you random, you get banned for trolling ranked play, you can "random" in normals all you want.
Can't even get through the heads of LoL players.
"You don't get banned for randoming, only trolling, btw randoming is trolling"
That's why LoL is so awful. If you do anything but play the one specific, highly rigid meta in ladder games you are a "troll" what horrible game design that is.Creativity is frowned upon, and people will line up to defend it.
Millions of people like spawning behind eachother and taking turns shooting one another in the back in CoD too, so I guess there's just no accounting for taste
Can stop making up quotes or spewing bullshit? Do you realise you look like retard doing this?
Since when randoming is being creative?
Since when refusing to communicate and picking something fucked up on purpose in ranked ladder soloqueue is being creative?
LoL is team game, you can't be that braindead to deny it. And "trying out" or randoming things in soloque when 4 others ask you something is pretty much equals being annoying little fuck.
You got normals for reason. You got premade queue for reason. Test your amazing tactics, execute them with friends in ladders.
And i pray to god i won't get another "trundle mid or feed" in your face as last pick in my soloqueue.
What 10% gold lead by 12 minutes means is that one team got dragon. 10% by 12 minutes is not a big lead, and yet it basically decides the game. That is snowballing.
LoL is just a stagnant game with a boring meta. You even get banned if you don't play the exact same way every game in high level ladder. Heroes have to be played in specific lanes or you get reported. You can't even random, you will get reported.
That's why it's such a snowball game, because there's nothing dynamic about it. Every hero is the same, every pick is the same, every lane set up is the same, two teams being equal the only thing that matters is who gets the early game lead
Some bullshit here.
You do not get banned if you pick and play outside of meta. You do not get banned if you random, you get banned for trolling ranked play, you can "random" in normals all you want.
play hon then, people who report for retarded reasons, and those surely are and i never heard or seen suchthings in hon, get warned.. and so on
uhmmm unlocking heroes with more skills IS pay2win lol. you can be like "oh that hero would really fit with out team but i dont have him..."
All champs have the same amount of skills they can use, they just differ from eachother. There are no heroes with "more skills" then any other... Goddamn that's some idiotic statement
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
sausje defending LoL marketing model is priceless really. Sorry mate but really that's gold You can either play a lot ( and you have to play else your ingame money vanishes as time goes ) or pay to unlock heroes ? And the overall character design is.. women are surely busty
Also, your 1v5 statements are.. idiotic, sorry. You're close to accepting that Riot's "antifun" bullshit is true. It really is a pity for me to see you using such points. It's precisely because such things can happen that Dota is so amazing to play and watch.
I'll never find a game where you have to pay/play at unreasonnable rates to unlock heroes the better one - while the other offer me the complete cast, sorry. LoL meta's is particularily stale for years, the early decides all the rest, mb season 3 will change some stuff but it's no wonder we see so many LoL players switching lately.
I got nothing in particular against the game in itself but for a veteran Dota player it really looks casual - which is fine, Dota and LoL don't compete for the same playerbase I feel.
It makes me sad that so little people know or play Dota in the hump, since it catches so well the hardcore gamer master race spirit. It constantly evolves, is produced by a greediless developer, has a steep learning curve and basically takes years to master.
Anyway.. Dota 2 will leave you with more depth and is growing, HoN is okay as a game since it derives so strongly from Dota but it is dying, and LoL is ok if you're just going to play it casually - the competitive side is a bit less prominent in it.
The communities in these games are toxic as we are on the internet, but you will encounter good people, it's not essentially worse than any other online cooperative game - hit us up if you want to play some games versus bots, you might want to start with that
uhmmm unlocking heroes with more skills IS pay2win lol. you can be like "oh that hero would really fit with out team but i dont have him..."
All champs have the same amount of skills they can use, they just differ from eachother. There are no heroes with "more skills" then any other... Goddamn that's some idiotic statement
I know there isn't a hero with more skills, different is what I wanted to say, yes, doesn't change my point tho. unlocking heroes (differentiated gameplay) --> pay2win
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. I like the progression, heroes and skills better (although the amount of heroes is fairly limited compared to other games I guess.
It's much more casual than either DOTA and HoN, and I have all the heroes/items unlocked since I have 6000+ referrals \o/. Sure the balance is shit, but the community is a lot better and the games tend to be more fun.
You can either play a lot ( and you have to play else your ingame money vanishes as time goes ) or pay to unlock heroes ? And the overall character design is.. women are surely busty 
