i wrote this in the "1 out of 4 woman will be raped" thread, but its kinda lost there, so i decided to make a proper topic for it.
Quote:
I live in Geneva. The city that ranked top 1 or 2 in the last decades for quality of life and desirability to live in. Guess what, Geneva has a foreign population of over 55% ! Yes, over half the people living in Geneva, do not own a swiss passport. And yes, naturalized immigrants are counted as swiss in these figures. If you'd count them as foreign as well, there remain maybe 20-25% swiss in geneva. And guess what, its the greatest fucking city to live in (as claimed by many sources).
We have virtually no racism here and city council is dominated by the social democrats and we're fucking doing great. We have mosques (we have the oldest islamic center in europe) , synagogues, churches. Its a city of all faiths (or not, since many are atheists or agnostics). There is never any trouble, due to religion. Or hardly for anything else.
Where i am going with this ? Only morons and idiots beyond hope blame foreigners or foreign cultures for their own inability to live in peace and prosperity. Blaming someone else for their own failures and shortcomings is the dumbest and cheapest way of trying to get rid of everything that is bad or wrong. Guess what, it never was and never will be, because those "damn foreigners" never were and never will be the problem. Its usually those "damn foreigners" who built your damn cities, with slave salaries and crappy conditions. Doing the jobs that YOU would Never do yourselves. Check next time, who takes your garbage from the street, who cleans them, who builds your houses and everything else that is beneath you or hard.
Fuck racism and fuck everyone who uses it as a cheap excuse.
Oh and last thing while i am, about money. We're using a system of DEBT. WE are currently paying for the debts of the generation/s that came before us and those coming after us, will have to pay for the debts we're currently making. And its spiraling higher and higher, not because we use more, no, because thats how the fucking monetary system works. Its meant to do that. Its an endless spiraling higher and higher with interests raising (interests we have to pay for, not talking about rates.)
You can't payback 1 €, if you have to pay back 1.20€ and no way to make that extra .20€ if the only way is to borrow that .20€ from the same place as well.
Anyway, now stop blaming everything on everybody else and either shut up or do something about it lol.
Guess what, Geneva has a foreign population of over 55% !
Your point being? People in western countries will generally welcome well-educated, hard-working immigrants with open arms (which I'd bet a metropolitan city like Geneva mostly attracts), the problem in Sweden for example has been this influx of poorly-educated refugees - real refugees or just economic ones - that have no desire to integrate to the main society nor are they capable of contributing, either (admittedly some employers may prefer to hire native workers, but there are some refugees for sure which are more than willing to just live on benefits). Lack of education can always be fixed, that much is true, but it's much harder to fix the non-integration if there's absolutely no desire from the immigrant's part to do so.
You can't just blindly compare immigration numbers without considering what kind of immigrants each country is getting. Non-working, non-integrating immigrants are nothing but a burden on a society, no matter what kind of 'richness' the PC crowd will claim it brings.
Im in this process right now , Im a doc..and I don't have a job in my country , so I can't wait to start working here. I do think about this subject from time to time , I do miss my home but I have to do something..so far everyone is nice to me , I do hope everything stays that way..it sure will on my side.
ah fuck, just keep on hating. You'll make a good bunch of nazis some day.
Hey guys my name is Sin317, I make threads where I state my opinion and invite conversation about my statement. However anyone who does not agree with me is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to speak you fucking nazi!!11!1!
I'm reporting your thread and your posts, you are baiting people and trolling the fuck out of every normal person on this board who isn't so abnormally obsessed about the entire damn thing. Most of us don't even discuss these things in daily life, it only pops up when threads like this come up.
Anyway I hope someone will finally take the decision for you and remove you from this board.
Non-working, non-integrating immigrants are nothing but a burden on a society, no matter what kind of 'richness' the PC crowd will claim it brings.
This i have to agree with, the LEAST thing an immigrant can do is learn about the culture of the country they are going to live in, so misunderstandings due to difference in culture can be helt to a minimum and cannot be blamed due to "not known how shit works around here".
About working, well yeah ofc, everyone that can work, should work. But in jobs that they want and have knowledge of, if not, give them the funds to learn a new job that they would like to. Ofc here are other things related to again, but you get my drift.
Do i, personally, think they are a burden here in the NL atleast? Not really.
Especially down south here, i hardly hear anything about them causing issues or so, it's more the Dutch who are fucked up then them.
If you look at the numbers, we are doing quite fine on this and not getting a massive flow of immigrants for now. In 2012 we got 156.000 immigrants and 143.000 left, that's only an increase of 13.000 immigrants on a year.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
Why cant all africans go back to Africa and live with their people that they can relate to without feeling shunned out by the evil white people? Same thing with the asians that have problems integrating into modern society obviously!
Surely the world would be a better place that way?
Your point being? People in western countries will generally welcome well-educated, hard-working immigrants with open arms (which I'd bet a metropolitan city like Geneva mostly attracts), the problem in Sweden for example has been this influx of poorly-educated refugees - real refugees or just economic ones - that have no desire to integrate to the main society nor are they capable of contributing, either (admittedly some employers may prefer to hire native workers, but there are some refugees for sure which are more than willing to just live on benefits). Lack of education can always be fixed, that much is true, but it's much harder to fix the non-integration if there's absolutely no desire from the immigrant's part to do so.
You can't just blindly compare immigration numbers without considering what kind of immigrants each country is getting. Non-working, non-integrating immigrants are nothing but a burden on a society, no matter what kind of 'richness' the PC crowd will claim it brings.
As much as there is truth in this, at least here in NL there's another factor that many people who look at things like you forget.
A lot of these people and families are often kept in limbo for over a decade while the government sorts out the paper work. Because they're not officially citizens yet, there's a lot of things they do not get and/or can't do. Similarly, getting jobs is next to impossible for these people.
And then there's the last part to the equation, which differs per country (and I don't think this is the case in Sweden, it is here and in other countries though). Those are the "native" "minorities". In NL, that means gypsies. Cliché, but true. Gypsies here are assigned a piece of land where they can put their trailers and such. They get electricity and sewage there and they are exempt from 70% of all taxes. Waste taxes and fees? Free for them (rest of us have to pay by the kilogram). Municipal taxes? Not for them. Real estate taxes? Not for them. Income taxes? Heavily reduced. Yet these are also the groups responsible for most of the criminal activity in the majority of our country - weed growth, import and export, grand theft auto and everything surrounding that and beatings. They've started sorting that out about half a decade ago, but the majority of these camps are still very much like that.
Before anyone from Holland (and with that I mean our two provinces that are called Holland, our country isn't called that) responds: for you it's the immigrants, for the rest of the country it's the trailer camps (woonwagenkampen).
For every bad immigrant, there's also a good one who contributes more to society than half the "native" population. There's just as much white trash as there is "foreign" trash. There are just as many white leechers who don't work for a living (not legally anyway, they'll still do stuff on the side and end up making more money than proper citizens).
Immigrants who refuse to integrate are a problem and they need to fuck off, but they're not the only problem in most countries yet often they are the only problem that is constantly looked at. As far as I'm concerned they can fuck off, but so can the gypsies and problem teens. Deport them all, see how they like it elsewhere.
ah fuck, just keep on hating. You'll make a good bunch of nazis some day.
Hey guys my name is Sin317, I make threads where I state my opinion and invite conversation about my statement. However anyone who does not agree with me is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to speak you fucking nazi!!11!1!
I'm reporting your thread and your posts, you are baiting people and trolling the fuck out of every normal person on this board who isn't so abnormally obsessed about the entire damn thing. Most of us don't even discuss these things in daily life, it only pops up when threads like this come up.
Anyway I hope someone will finally take the decision for you and remove you from this board.
Regardless of how lame sin is, Stormwolf literally starts his reply with "not reading" and then starts to comment on the thread. Pretty fucking weak
People come to live in a foreign country, now i'm not generalizing here.
1) They don't speak the country's language and some have no intention of learning.
2) They know very little or nothing of the history or laws and ways of the country, nor are they interested.
3) They have no intent of integrating with the country's population, and live within their own little communities, they could be living on the fucking moon, and know nothing or want to know anything of the other society.
4) Expect their country's ways and laws ect.. to be installed in their new lives in their chosen country.
5) Children born into this way carry on this way of living, and ultimately hold back any kind of integration and coexistence in becoming one and the same comunity.
I'm not saying people should leave and abandon their ways and beliefs. But turning parts of a country into a clone of their home country is not the way forward.
I stated my opinion on the matter. Now shut the fuck up and get the fuck off this forums as you've done multiple times already. The only troll i can see is you.
Stop insulting people, even if you don't agree with Sin and his posts he is well within his right to post a thread like this. It isn't directly insulting nor is it detracting from another thread. I would far rather someone take a topic out of a thread then try to push it into another.
Just put him on ignore.
Sin317 wrote:
ah fuck, just keep on hating. You'll make a good bunch of nazis some day.
As for you Sin, if you want to make threads like this you need to grow up and accept that people may not agree. That doesn't make them "nazis" and you shouldn't state or insinuate such things.
Anymore shit and the thread will get locked and bans will reign down on everyone.
Sin, to be completely honest, what you do on these boards on a regular basis is bait people, and when someone responds with an actual argument, you go ballistic. Check your last reply even, it contains not a single argument. You call everyone a nazi, who disagrees, and that's as far as a conversation can go with you.
How is this beneficial to any of us?
Now for your actual claim:
There is data, and then there is cherry picked data. Your data about Geneva is not only cherry picked, but also flawed. You see, of the problematic cultures we are talking about these past couple of years the groups we most talk about in relation to crime are muslim immigrants from outside of Europe. Make a note here: I am not generalizing, nor am I offering any kind of solution, as this question is broader, than what I can understand properly.
Geneva has a muslim population of less than 5%, vast majority of whom arrived from Europe (more than 50% from the former Yugoslavia, only around 5-6% of muslims arrived from Africa).
In sweden the situation is completely different, and this is why your data about Geneva (flawed as it were to begin with) is a very weak analogy.
And if we speak about data, well there is now aple literature about the correlation of crime and immigration. If you would take a moment to actually review the arguments instead of constantly shouting your opinions, not only you but the entirety of the nfohump community would be better off.
I stated my opinion on the matter. Now shut the fuck up and get the fuck off this forums as you've done multiple times already. The only troll i can see is you.
Stop insulting people, even if you don't agree with Sin and his posts he is well within his right to post a thread like this. It isn't directly insulting nor is it detracting from another thread. I would far rather someone take a topic out of a thread then try to push it into another.
Just put him on ignore.
Anymore shit and the thread will get locked and bans will reign down on everyone.
I answered a question i thought to be pretty straight forward after reading the thread title and the first line. If i was indeed mistaken in what i said i apologize. Actually, i don't apologize after that overzealous idiot called people Nazis for their opinions.
People come to live in a foreign country, now i'm not generalizing here.
1) They don't speak the country's language and some have no intention of learning.
2) They know very little or nothing of the history or laws and ways of the country, nor are they interested.
3) They have no intent of integrating with the country's population, and live within their own little communities, they could be living on the fucking moon, and know nothing or want to know anything of the other society.
4) Expect their country's ways and laws ect.. to be installed in their new lives in their chosen country.
5) Children born into this way carry on this way of living, and ultimately hold back any kind of integration and coexistence in becoming one and the same comunity.
lol, this is exactly what I thought of the people from the UK living in Spain when I visited
People come to live in a foreign country, now i'm not generalizing here.
1) They don't speak the country's language and some have no intention of learning.
2) They know very little or nothing of the history or laws and ways of the country, nor are they interested.
3) They have no intent of integrating with the country's population, and live within their own little communities, they could be living on the fucking moon, and know nothing or want to know anything of the other society.
4) Expect their country's ways and laws ect.. to be installed in their new lives in their chosen country.
5) Children born into this way carry on this way of living, and ultimately hold back any kind of integration and coexistence in becoming one and the same comunity.
lol, this is exactly what I thought of the people from the UK living in Spain when I visited
My wifes Auntie and Uncle retired to Spain, Guardalavaca to be exact. They wanted to move to a nice spanish town integrate, learn the language before moving ect.. They ended up on an estate dominated by English, Russian and others. But now they both speak spanish, her auntie does charity work local and makes and sells items on the local market, and her uncle now ownes a property sales shop and sells to immigrants errmm i mean foreigners
People come to live in a foreign country, now i'm not generalizing here.
1) They don't speak the country's language and some have no intention of learning.
2) They know very little or nothing of the history or laws and ways of the country, nor are they interested.
3) They have no intent of integrating with the country's population, and live within their own little communities, they could be living on the fucking moon, and know nothing or want to know anything of the other society.
4) Expect their country's ways and laws ect.. to be installed in their new lives in their chosen country.
5) Children born into this way carry on this way of living, and ultimately hold back any kind of integration and coexistence in becoming one and the same comunity.
lol, this is exactly what I thought of the people from the UK living in Spain when I visited
My wifes Auntie and Uncle retired to Spain, Guardalavaca to be exact. They wanted to move to a nice spanish town integrate, learn the language before moving ect.. They ended up on an estate dominated by English, Russian and others. But now they both speak spanish, her auntie does charity work local and makes and sells items on the local market, and her uncle now ownes a property sales shop and sells to immigrants errmm i mean foreigners
Not the British but Swedish, kind of the same issue.
(unfortunately in Swedish only)
Just to give it some subtext. A bunch of Swedish families that basically have their own Swedish community in Spain without giving two fucks about learning the culture or language. ^_^
I support migrant workers to a degree, i work in recruitment and 60% of our workforce are eastern european, we have employed young english lads (18 -30 age group ) but they are lazy and hardly show up for work and when they do they moan about the work being too hard,the amount of times ive heard english people saying " foreigners come here and steal our jobs" annoys me as the english youth wont work, what i dont agree with is people coming here to scrounge benefits, we have enough british scounging benefits as it is.
I wish we had immigrants who all looked like models, and they should all be females and have one simple task, to do as I say.
Man, that kind of immigration would be awesome....
We have like 40% immigrants in LU, mainly uneducated people from portugal and italy. Eventhough they share the main religion, you will find people that will raise the exact same issues as in any other country with other immigrants. LU has a schooling system that favors locals as they begin school in german and move to frensh later on. Our statistics show that children with migration background tend to remain in the workings class as they will more likely fail in language classes which are needed for the more intellectual school system that leads to university. Somehow we managed to generally divide our social classe between immigrants and locals. There are exceptions, but some conservative idiots in leading positions will still somehow favour mediocre luxemburgish over better immigrants.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
Problem with immigration is that people are fucking cowards and if they can find "their own ethnic group" they will more than likely stick with them than actually try and integrate with the local populous.
But that's people, they'd rather stick with something that's familiar then go into the great unknown to find out what's out there.
And this seems to go for immigrants in general, this does not specifically apply to any certain ethnic group.
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