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Grale
Banned
Posts: 3321
Location: Invert
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 Posted: Tue, 8th Jan 2013 23:26 Post subject: |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | | Paintface wrote: | | sausje wrote: | | Simple reason, if you press it right ontop if it, you can NEVER get rid of most airbubbles that CAN form under it. That's why it's safer to smear it out before putting the cooler on.. |
no, thats why exactly you use the pea method, so the air is pushed to the sides. when you smear it out thinly the paste doesnt go outwards anymore, and any air between the heatsink and cpu is trapped. that lil amount of air will do more harm preventing heat being transfered than the extra 0.02mm thickness you would have. |
This |
Watching the videos this does make more sense.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jan 2013 23:43 Post subject: |
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Indeed it does, so why did Werelds do it the other method? Have i done it wrong now with all the cpu's i had to do that with?! 
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Tue, 8th Jan 2013 23:56 Post subject: |
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No. I just prefer the card method because no matter what anyone here says, JUST pressure will not evenly spread it - and it's not needed with CPUs anymore, but 10 years ago, when these fuckers were bigger, it did matter. Overall you'll still end up with the same thickness more or less with either method, I'm just used to using a card 
Just for the record though, the card method doesn't mean spreading it to a thin film layer.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jan 2013 10:14 Post subject: |
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I have always spread the paste with card aswell.
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| Posted: Wed, 9th Jan 2013 15:46 Post subject: |
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| sausje wrote: | | Indeed it does, so why did Werelds do it the other method? Have i done it wrong now with all the cpu's i had to do that with?! |
You really shouldn't worry so much about it. Just watch yourtemps |
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| Posted: Thu, 10th Jan 2013 07:49 Post subject: |
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Also the less the better, i use very small dot and then spead with card. I yesterday swapped my NT-H1 (Noctua) paste to Phobya HeGrease Extreme, temps dropped by 2 degrees with exactly same amount and spread method. So yes there is difference, even with good paste´s.
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 01:16 Post subject: |
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| Slizza wrote: | What's the best stuff to get these days?
I'm thinking the Antec diamond compound stuff sounds interesting. |
I use Indigo Xtreme. Been using it since June 2012. There is no thermal paste on the market at the moment that beats Indigo and you dont have to worry about spreading it correctly
It was a bit scary to apply it for the first time, but you get the hang of it.
| timechange01 wrote: | | Just use MX2, its not bad and affordable |
Lol I made ^this^ post on June 13, 2012 and ordered Indigo exactly 9 days later:
ASUS Maximus XII Formula | Core i9 10900k @ 5.2Ghz | 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4200Mhz | EVGA RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper | ASUS ROG PG35VQ |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51465
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 01:57 Post subject: |
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$18? 
Have a sealed MX-4 package still lying around.
Waiting for that upgrade that will never come... 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 02:11 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | $18? |
Lol yea thats the bad part. Also it only comes with 2 applications. So you can use it twice basically. If you mess up the first time, you have one more try left
ASUS Maximus XII Formula | Core i9 10900k @ 5.2Ghz | 32GB G.Skill DDR4 4200Mhz | EVGA RTX 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper | ASUS ROG PG35VQ |
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 04:12 Post subject: |
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the performance gain indigo offers over something like Shinetsu isn't worth the extra 12 bucks. You get maybe an extra 3C or so.
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 13:41 Post subject: |
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I use to do that spread method by putting a dab in the middle and then spreading it with a plastic baggy. From what I've read this creates air bubbles that don't play nice with the CPU.
When I installed by hyper evo a few weeks back, I just put a pea size dot in the middle dropped the heatsink on it and that was that. Idle temps go from 26-31, load sits around 61-65. No complaints, worked like a charm, easy and quick. This is the method I will use going forward from now on.
Used arctic silver 5, but from what I've read tuniq tx-4 is some of the best around.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
| Corsair Carbide 400R | Asus Sabertooth z77 | i7 3770K @ 4.3Ghz - 1.200v | CM Hyper 212 Evo - Push/Pull |
| SLI eVGA 4GB GTX980 ACX SC | Vengeance 16GB RAM 1600 DDR3 | AX850w PSU | Samsung 840Pro 128GB SSD | WD Black 1TB HD |
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Stige
Posts: 3546
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu, 14th Mar 2013 22:49 Post subject: |
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Never touching anything again after I first used Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, this thing is just THAT MUCH BETTER than anything else out there.
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Mar 2013 02:59 Post subject: |
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There's no point in buying AC5 anymore unless you're the type that buys Bose speakers. AC5 is terribly outdated. You can get stuff for the same price, that cools the same and/or better and doesn't have the insane cure time.
Shinetsu, the stuff I use, cures in a few hours, cools better by a couple C and costs about the same.
Read pro benchmarks, there's like 15 great pastes that all cool within 1-3C of each other, so you really can't go wrong with any of them.
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tw1st
Posts: 6112
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Mar 2013 14:04 Post subject: |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | There's no point in buying AC5 anymore unless you're the type that buys Bose speakers. AC5 is terribly outdated. You can get stuff for the same price, that cools the same and/or better and doesn't have the insane cure time.
Shinetsu, the stuff I use, cures in a few hours, cools better by a couple C and costs about the same.
Read pro benchmarks, there's like 15 great pastes that all cool within 1-3C of each other, so you really can't go wrong with any of them. |
*hides bose PC speakers*
Still learning here lol, bought AC5 cause I really did not know any better. Well I have a whole bunch of it left still so I'll probably be using it for the near future.
How often do you guys re-apply TIM? I've heard once a year is a good habit to get into to keep your CPU at it's best.
| BenQ XL2420T 24" 120Hz | Ducky Shine III 9008 White LED - Brown MX | Logitech G9x |
| Corsair Carbide 400R | Asus Sabertooth z77 | i7 3770K @ 4.3Ghz - 1.200v | CM Hyper 212 Evo - Push/Pull |
| SLI eVGA 4GB GTX980 ACX SC | Vengeance 16GB RAM 1600 DDR3 | AX850w PSU | Samsung 840Pro 128GB SSD | WD Black 1TB HD |
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Mar 2013 17:52 Post subject: |
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I do it every time i take my radiators out to clean them
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri, 15th Mar 2013 18:05 Post subject: |
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I got a tube of it from work about 10 years ago, Dow corning 340. They used it on the heating element bands on die extruders
http://www.ellsworthadhesives.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/4/340_CMPD_382G_CART.jpg
Its a HUGE 400 gram tube of it, enough to last me my life if I did a pc build a week. Ive had it 10 years, and even doing my PC's and all my friend/family builds over the years, I have used maybe 2% of it?
Think they paid around $10 for it? And it works as well as anything I ever used, including titan nano or shin-E.
I don't see how people can pay $20 for a little needle full of a few grams, without walking away with a sore ass and a limp 
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Mar 2013 20:54 Post subject: |
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Might be fine but it's thermal conductivity sucks.
0.67 Watts per meter K which isn't much better than HD Polyethylene
The stuff I got with my Waterblock is 5.0 watts per meter K
Little fun fact, wood is 0.12 haha
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Mar 2013 20:59 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Mar 2013 21:13 Post subject: |
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hey, with OC'ing that few C can make all the difference!....well...it did when I used the H50. Nothing will heat up under this new water setup haha.
I might try it out some time, how does it spread?
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 16th Mar 2013 21:20 Post subject: |
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But again, if your overclocking that close to your thermal limit, your doing it wrong to start with
I myself rather drop that 20 bucks into a better heatsink that I can reuse...instead of getting paste that's "useless' once you take the heatsink off for any reason.
its spreads pretty well, it cures to a semi malleable state, not a liquid..but I can still 'smear' it a year later if I push it hard enough sort of like ALMOST dried caulk. but I like that.
I don't like the pastes that cure to a solid, that just means one tiny tiny bump, or vibration big enough 'cracks' its connection in places..defeating the purpose.
So far I've had not one issue with it. Ever PC I've had and built its been in plus all my friends/families.
And i overclock them all if they are mine. Again sure I might be 2-3 degrees warmer than someone with the $40 tube of grease. But I'm still so far from my thermal limit its not worth the worry.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Mar 2013 21:25 Post subject: |
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I'll pick up a tube sometime.
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Stige
Posts: 3546
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Mar 2013 22:00 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | But again, if your overclocking that close to your thermal limit, your doing it wrong to start with
I myself rather drop that 20 bucks into a better heatsink that I can reuse...instead of getting paste that's "useless' once you take the heatsink off for any reason.
its spreads pretty well, it cures to a semi malleable state, not a liquid..but I can still 'smear' it a year later if I push it hard enough sort of like ALMOST dried caulk. but I like that.
I don't like the pastes that cure to a solid, that just means one tiny tiny bump, or vibration big enough 'cracks' its connection in places..defeating the purpose.
So far I've had not one issue with it. Ever PC I've had and built its been in plus all my friends/families.
And i overclock them all if they are mine. Again sure I might be 2-3 degrees warmer than someone with the $40 tube of grease. But I'm still so far from my thermal limit its not worth the worry. |
0.67 W/k is pretty damn low, even a thermal pad would do a lot better than that.
Difference between that 0.67 W/k and Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra is a lot more than 2-3 degrees, we are talking about 10 degrees here propably.
Even the cheap thermal pastes lose to CLU/CLP by 7-8 degrees and they got a lot better than 0.67 W/k aswell.
If you are overclocking for real, you will want to shave everything off everything you can.
Not everyone can afford a cooling that will allow you to overclock so that temperatures will never be an issue like I can, I'm more limited by my chip as the "recommended" voltages will never yield me temps higher than 65-70C in any use.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Mar 2013 22:10 Post subject: |
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I have yet to see 10c difference in any thermal compound when using a decent cooler with a decent base. You cant even get 10c difference by going from paste to freshly clean and raw metal to metal..hell even the cheap paste wont do that "7 degrees cooler" from bare metal..(unless doing a stress test of pure synthetic heat load over an extended period of time for a benchmark of heat. but not real word)
I can go take the shin-e off my servers CPU, load it, and I can guarantee it wont be 10c difference, no way it will jump from 50 under load to 60.
Remember the thermal paste is simply a substance to fill into the micro-pores between the cooler base and the processor heat-spreader. You have to make sure that both these surfaces are very even, because no “micro-millimeter” layer of thermal compound will cause that much of a gain unless its compensating for a very poor overall contact to start with. and if it is..heatsink paste cost isnt the way to fix it.
if you ARE getting 10c different with it, return your heatsink or CPU, one of them is warped to hell and back.
So unless your overvolting the crap out of your CPU, and pushing every last bit of mhz out of it you can before an error from overvolt or heat throttle...Then yes, I can see someone spending it, same as someone spending $400 bucks on a set of racing grade bearings for a camshaft, compared to the normal $50 performance ones, because they can squeeze out 1-2 more horsepower because they ran out of other places to squeeze it out of..
But spending 20 bucks on a thimble of paste is useless for anybody just doing moderate to high overclocking.
I mean like me, a 2500k at 4.6 and idle of 35, load of 60 is fine to me. Im not spending 30 bucks to get 33 and 57...
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Mar 2013 23:27 Post subject: |
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How do you explain then Ivy Bridge temps? The thermal paste which is used between IHS and core is so shitty, that if you delid it and put 7€ paste between them, you get reduced temps of 10-15C. Dunno what processors and heatsinks you use, but thermal paste´s has really big difference, even on stock voltages.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 18th Mar 2013 23:45 Post subject: |
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Its not only the paste, but the gap size between them in ivy bridge and the use of paste at all in such a poor quality way. Why it didn't effect all the chips with that paste only random ones out of batches (way too large of a percentage, but still not the majority).
My friends rob and jason both have 3770K ones from launch with the 'crappy paste' issue, one his temps is fine, the other with the same exact setup and heatsink was horrible. So we de-cased it and checked.
Some of them when pulling the IHS off and looking, the gap was big enough for the paste thickness to be opaque and splotchy, not to mention usually not even covering it completely and the IHS glue making a bad seating.
take one and apply a expensive paste without cleaning off the glue rim that seals the IHS, causing the micrometer offset seating, and the temps will just almost just as bad.
Cant find a pic of it that looks like his..but his looked about like this for coverage..and the thickness of it on the IHS side was thick enough to scrap off as a 'sheet'
 Spoiler: | |
So instead of a solid, microgap/seat ignoring process of fluxless solder like they usually do, that has much higher tolerance for distance and seating quality, they decided to slap paste in there and call it a day. So its not the paste they used, but the crappy application of it and making sure it set well, as compared to fluxless where its not as important.
I mean if you went and did a entire layer of fluxless solder between your heatsink and CPU you would murder any pastes thermal conductivity its apples to orange.
I'm not saying the higher pastes don't help, I'm just saying I've never seen a point in spending $20-30 bucks for it. Never once is all my years of PC's and rack servers have I had a problem of heat caused by a lack of expensive hyped paste
And for mine its a 2500k with just a zalman 9700 on it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Mar 2013 00:01 Post subject: |
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Yeah well i wont never pay 20€ for some liguid shit, since its not be that much better than best thermal paste. I bought Phobya heGrease Extreme while ago, dropped temps around 2-3C compared to shin etsu which is on H100i by stock.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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Stige
Posts: 3546
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue, 19th Mar 2013 00:30 Post subject: |
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After going from some shit Nexus paste to Gelid GC Extreme/Phobya HEGrease to CL Ultra I wouldn't even think of going back to anything else, CLU is just so much better than anything else on the market right now.
"Liquid Ultra is rated at 38.4w/mk and Liquid Pro is rated at 32.6w/mk."
Sure my cooling is overkill for anything right now, I could propably push the CPU to 1.65V or so before I hit the TJMax but still, better is better.
Personaly I got nearly 30C drop in temps when I delidded my 3570K.
AND I WANT THE BEST!
Otherwise I wouldn't have invested in a real water cooling solution.
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