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 Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:19 Post subject: |
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nailed it Krest...
exactly what ive been wanting to say but couldnt find the correct way to say it.
Thank you
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:23 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: |
Nobody is saying that. What we are saying is there are alternatives to steam (not many as you mentioned, but there are), and at least valve makes up for it by having constant sales and discounts, and MANY sites sell steam keys.
And why shouldn't console people protests it. So because someone does it ON A DIFFERENT SYSTEM, everyone should just be happy that this feature is finally coming to their system? |
I didn't say that console gamers shouldn't protest it. I fully support them protesting it. I just think it's crazy when PC gamers get this attitude as if Steam blocking used games is somehow wildly different.
From my perspective, I see that all of those companies that sell Steam keys are... well, selling STEAM keys. And that they only exist at the will of Valve and the publishers that they partner with. A more sustainable, better way would be if there was a real competitor, and those sites could sell Steam and OtherPlace keys.
I think that, as it is now, the good times with Steam only continue because Valve is benevolent. But if Gabe were to say "fuck it, I want to build rockets like John Carmack," and sell Steam to Disney or something, we'd really regret the fact that Steam is the ONLY thing going.
Edit: But thanks for clarifying how you feel about it so well. Because I can understand the other side of this debate a little better now.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:29 Post subject: |
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But nobody has this attitude, we are just used to this kind of treatment. Being a pc gamer is difficult as it is with the constant shitty ports, past draconian drms, no used games, MP cheaters, and so on. To me a console was a bit of an escape from this. I have both xbox 360 and ps3. My ENTIRE ps3 library of about 10 games consists of used games that I spent around $100 in total (plus infamous and uncharted 1 that I borrowed from a friend). But now, with the xbox 1, this $100 will barely buy me 2 games, used or new.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:35 Post subject: |
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Yuuichi, you're right about everything you say. Steam has killed second hand gaming on PC. The only major game I remember buying the past few months that didn't use Steamworks was Assassin's Creed 3, and it required me to do the same with my UPlay account.
I'm not complaining about Steam. I think that the quality of the service justifies the strict measures and I never sold PC games before anyway. But the fact remains that Steam made second hand PC gaming impossible.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:40 Post subject: |
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I mean, even before steam the second hand market on the PC was never a big thing anyway cause of the cd-keys and stuff.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:41 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:27; edited 1 time in total
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65072
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 01:50 Post subject: |
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While I laugh (#heartless_mode  ) at this drama since I have no intention of buying a console, I can't help but think about the future that Microsoft has planned for the PC.
Windows' future is going to be very dark, if their intention is to design something as invasive and authoritarian as this new nazibox. It would be the perfect time to finally get rid of M$ for good and start a new life under a brand new future OS (because we'll turn against the system -literally- there's no doubt about that!)
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 02:17 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Microsoft-Disables-Comments-Xbox-One-Videos-Following-Harsh-Criticisms-56073.html
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They'll have to endure at least 2 more weeks of this shit, too bad for them.
EDIT: also
https://twitter.com/majornelson/status/338377419486531584
the responses |
But then he won't be able to play 
Steam is DD. no problem not being able to trade resell your DD games. Ms is going after boxed copies.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 02:25 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: | | readonly wrote: | | Tungsten wrote: | | pirate? who said anything about pirating? |
Edit: Sabin, what if this means xbox has sales too and can finally have proper pricepoints for games 6 months 1 year 2 years old? Instead of the current archaic pricepoints? |
You honestly believe that though? Not only does steam have competition from other services, you can also buy cheap cd keys that work on steam from many places (bought MW2 key for $25 when it launched). Plus, most of the new games have some sort of a discount, and they go on sale pretty quickly.
On xbox, not so much. It would of course be nice, but why would MS do that. |
if MS is smart yes I do believe that. I would rather sell 5 million copies at launch for $60 and 5 million copies at half price after a year then sell 5 million at launch and 1 million at full price after a year. These numbers are obviously arbitrary but it will be Microsoft pulling stats to find the sweet spot where gamers will buy a game they wouldn't have bought otherwise. This is exactly what steam does with their sales.
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Cyb3r
Posts: 615
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 02:31 Post subject: |
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untill major devs start supporting linux in large numbers where stuck to winblows anyhow osx aint an option since that's even more locked down lol and osx is just another branch of unix anyways
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 02:42 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: | | Steam has killed second hand gaming on PC. |
I have never bought or sold a single used PC game in my entire life. Not my problem or fault that you couch warriors are trying to rip-off each other and now you're scared that you can't anymore. Maybe you should be more picky with the games you buy. If I decide to buy a game, it stays. Especially when it was a bad game. It's there to remind me to be even more careful next time.
Sabin seems just to wait for example until the prices drop. Which is smart. But being smart isn't exactly a common trait on the couch, as we all know here.
Thanks to Steam I got tons of games in the last 3 years for such dirt cheap prices that it feels illegal. So speak for yourself.
Do I miss my boxes? Yes, dearly, but not because so I can resell them...
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Last edited by m3th0d2008 on Mon, 27th May 2013 02:49; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 02:47 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | me7 wrote: | | Steam has killed second hand gaming on PC. |
I have never bought or sold a single used PC game in my entire life. Not my problem or fault that you couch warriors are trying to rip-off each other and now you're scared that you can't anymore. Maybe you should be more picky with the games you buy. Because if I buy a game, it stays. Especially when it was a bad game. It's there to remind me to be even more careful next time.
Sabin seems just to wait for example until the prices drop. Which is smart. But being smart isn't exactly a common trait on the couch, we know.
Thanks to Steam I got tons of games in the last 3 years for such dirt cheap prices that it feels illegal. So speak for yourself.
Do I miss my boxes? Yes, dearly, but not because so I can resell them... |
This, also second hand gaming on pc where I live died off with the introduction of cd keys for online games. So basically Quake 3 era, that was the end of used game sales since people could buy the game copy it and keep the cd key for themselves.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 03:04 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 03:05 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Whaaaaa? I wait for bargains because I'm a fucking peasant with no money to my name.. and what little money I did get went on sales or buying preowned stuff  Some of my fondest gaming memories are those of my elder brother and I game-hunting at market stalls and game stores ^_^ |
But it's not you who's selling the games in one of these market stalls, right? Because that's my point.
And yet, you seem to got your games. It's just that I'm on the brink of getting a fucking stroke because of so many console gamers who play the "but I'm so fucking poor" card..
Some of them should maybe just look for another hobby.
I'd like to drive F1 cars in my freetime too, but since I can't afford it.. yeah.. tough shit. I can't even go and play paintball with my social circle because I can't afford it. Am I bitching about it? No, I'm not.
It's just, as a PC gamer, I had/have put up with so much shit... so many bad games and changes... because of this other demographic... and now this demographic dares to go all drama queen.. grrrr... infuriating... we got/get called whiners and entitled jerks or jealous assholes... guess what the couch-bros are doing now. I mean, seriously?
Fuck them! Fuck them all! Fucking eat it! Karma is a bitch you fools!
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 03:09 Post subject: |
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http://www.gamespot.com/features/xbox-one-microsofts-phil-spencer-talks-used-games-always-on-6408725/
"You definitely will have the software capability to turn off all the capabilities of Kinect. We want to put the gamer in control. And privacy. The box data information that collects is your data; it stays with you. You are in control of what you want to be collected. Game developers will obviously enable certain features and you'll be alerted when certain things are happening. Putting the gamer in control is really important."
So if a game requires a feature it obviously needs to be enabled but it will let you know that that feature is being enabled.
Edit: I agree the whole kinect thing is stupid but if they are going to have a kinect 2.0 it makes the most sense to force it on to every user so that developers do not shy away from it as much as they have.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 04:33 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: |
I have never bought or sold a single used PC game in my entire life. Not my problem or fault that you couch warriors are trying to rip-off each other and now you're scared that you can't anymore. Maybe you should be more picky with the games you buy. If I decide to buy a game, it stays. Especially when it was a bad game. It's there to remind me to be even more careful next time.
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I don't know when you started gaming, but I distinctly remember buying tons of used games at EB back before online activation. It doesn't matter to me now since I just buy anything I want when it comes out, but back when I was a kid without much money, and in the dialup shit era, before quick downloads and speedy piracy, the used game industry was awesome for me as a PC gamer.
And I think that used games were a great tradition on the PC, and it's a shame that they had to go away. Steam is great, and overall it provides a great service that entirely overcomes any shortcomings, but I think it sucks that people who are kids today are denied the same kind of experience.
Console gamers should be mad about this.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 05:38 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: | | m3th0d2008 wrote: |
I have never bought or sold a single used PC game in my entire life. Not my problem or fault that you couch warriors are trying to rip-off each other and now you're scared that you can't anymore. Maybe you should be more picky with the games you buy. If I decide to buy a game, it stays. Especially when it was a bad game. It's there to remind me to be even more careful next time.
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I don't know when you started gaming, but I distinctly remember buying tons of used games at EB back before online activation. It doesn't matter to me now since I just buy anything I want when it comes out, but back when I was a kid without much money, and in the dialup shit era, before quick downloads and speedy piracy, the used game industry was awesome for me as a PC gamer.
And I think that used games were a great tradition on the PC, and it's a shame that they had to go away. Steam is great, and overall it provides a great service that entirely overcomes any shortcomings, but I think it sucks that people who are kids today are denied the same kind of experience.
Console gamers should be mad about this. |
Like you said. Back in the days when there is only dial up...It was an experience for generations before, not now. The kids don't need to experience that. It is not some kind of magical experience that everyone needs to have. Buying used games is not like going to Disney Land.
Also people seem to have overlook the problems of used games. Anyone who have worked in gaming retail stores (especially major chains) would know how harmful it really is to the devs and publishers.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 07:30 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:27; edited 1 time in total
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no9999
Posts: 3437
Location: Behind you...
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 08:14 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 08:26 Post subject: |
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This whole thing is getting fucking stupid, people need to lay off and stop being douche bags.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 10:01 Post subject: |
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| Yuuichi wrote: |
I don't know when you started gaming, but I distinctly remember buying tons of used games at EB back before online activation. It doesn't matter to me now since I just buy anything I want when it comes out, but back when I was a kid without much money, and in the dialup shit era, before quick downloads and speedy piracy, the used game industry was awesome for me as a PC gamer.
And I think that used games were a great tradition on the PC, and it's a shame that they had to go away. Steam is great, and overall it provides a great service that entirely overcomes any shortcomings, but I think it sucks that people who are kids today are denied the same kind of experience.
Console gamers should be mad about this. |
| dannofdawn wrote: |
Also people seem to have overlook the problems of used games. Anyone who have worked in gaming retail stores (especially major chains) would know how harmful it really is to the devs and publishers. |
2008 is not my birthdate you jokers 
Like I said, I've never sold a single game I've bought and neither did anyone of my PC gaming friends. And when I wanted a game as a kid, I worked/jobbed to get the money when I didn't have any.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 11:27 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 11:40 Post subject: |
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| zibz wrote: | | This whole thing is getting fucking stupid, people need to lay off and stop being douche bags. |
having your lips tight around miscrosoft's asshole will make matters only worse. i'm glad we have this outcry, maybe, just maybe, we have a chance of something good coming out of it.
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 11:48 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | But it's not you who's selling the games in one of these market stalls, right? Because that's my point. And yet, you seem to got your games. It's just that I'm on the brink of getting a fucking stroke because of so many console gamers who play the "but I'm so fucking poor" card.. |
I don't know what it's like up there on Magical Expensive Fairy Cloud, where God herself throws crisp £100 notes in your face every second of every day, but the rest of us on Earth sometimes have to deal with what's called "money issues" --- I've already explained in the past that money issues forced me into selling my entire collection of boxed PC games, over £1500 worth of games - and quite likely more if you go by purchase-price. I was broke as fuck and, well, sorry... but I needed to eat. Now I tend to stick to Steam so that I can't be pushed into that kind of situation again, I've got £3k+ worth of games and I know I'll have them forever, no matter how bleak things get, at least I won't lose these like the last time.
---- sorry, correction; £4k+
So yes, I've both bought *and* sold preowned games. I used to visit market stalls every weekend, trade back the games I bought the previous week, get new ones. This is how gamers used to be -- I don't remember a time where you couldn't swap or borrow games from friends or at stores. It was only the rise of Gamestop/EBGames where they put paid to that, offering insultingly low trade prices which often meant trading in 3-5 games to get one, rather than the old days where you could trade a single SNES title and, maybe, a couple of quid, to get a new one. New as in "something new to you" not "brand new shrinkwrapped" -- because that's what people did. They traded.
| Quote: |
Some of them should maybe just look for another hobby.
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Does that include me too? You're right, of course, I should get another hobby - since this one has become prohibitively expensive. If piracy goes away, it won't force me into buying games - new or preowned - because I simply don't have any form of income now. I'll just stop playing "new" games and stick to classic, which is mostly what I do now anyhow >_>
| Quote: |
It's just, as a PC gamer, I had/have put up with so much shit... so many bad games and changes... because of this other demographic... and now this demographic dares to go all drama queen.. grrrr... infuriating... we got/get called whiners and entitled jerks or jealous assholes... guess what the couch-bros are doing now. I mean, seriously?
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Once again, this is what gaming was ALWAYS about. Ever since home games existed, people traded and swapped and borrowed them. This isn't something new to the Yankbox or PS4, it's not a new subset of people getting pissed off because they're "entitled, lolz", it's the SAME people that have played games for YEARS and have gotten USED to borrowing games or lending them. £45+ is too much to expect someone to just blindly throw out. Yes, this also includes computer games --- I fondly remember loaning out, and borrowing in return, dozens of Amiga games, or Spectrum, or DOS.
It's a shame you've got this kind of extreme look on things, m3th0d mate, it really is. Oh well -- at least you'll be happy now that the preowned market is about to fail almost completely. Latest info is that there's a £35 "activation" on preowned games --- awesome, good luck on that Microsoft. I can go online now and buy, for argument's sake, "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2" on the PS2 and it will cost me £5-10, does that mean I'm morally wrong - or the seller is morally wrong? If so, then fuck that! I'm happy to be wrong 
| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | Like I said, I've never sold a single game I've bought and neither did anyone of my PC gaming friends. And when I wanted a game as a kid, I worked/jobbed to get the money when I didn't have any. |
.... and yet here you are, on a pirate gaming/movie site, downloading new games and new music and new movies --- constantly --- without paying for them. How's your conscience and moral compass now? :\
Last edited by sabin1981 on Mon, 27th May 2013 12:06; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 27th May 2013 12:51 Post subject: |
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TBH I don't care about game trading, what worries me is the emphasis on exclusive titles (since xbox1 exclusives probably won't be piratable for a long, long time).
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