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 Posted: Thu, 13th Jun 2013 04:48 Post subject: |
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| headshot wrote: |
 Spoiler: | So after joking about severing Theon's cock, Ramsay actually did it? |
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Just the show spoilers.
| Spoiler: | Did you miss it? That was a few episodes ago when Theon was having sex with those two girls. |
minor book spoiler. The difference between the book and the show.
| Spoiler: | In the book it's only implied Theon was castrated. After the failed Winterfell siege, we meet Theon much later. He is already Reek and broken. |
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headshot
VIP Member
Posts: 36045
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu, 13th Jun 2013 10:44 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: | | headshot wrote: |
| Spoiler: | So after joking about severing Theon's cock, Ramsay actually did it? |
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Just the show spoilers.
| Spoiler: | Did you miss it? That was a few episodes ago when Theon was having sex with those two girls. |
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| Spoiler: | Oh so thats when he did it? I remember that episode. He hinted at it and made a move for him but then the scene ended so I wasnt certain. In episode 10 he was joking about it as he was eating the pork sausage but then he mentioned phantom limbs iirc ... what an evil fucker lol.
Edit: Just found this.
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ramsay_Snow
| Quote: | | Ramsay admits that the rumors about Theon were true, and that he did have a "good-sized cock", before momentarily tricking Theon into believing that the pork sausage he is eating is his penis. Ramsay talks about amputees having phantom limbs and wonders if Theon will have a phantom penis, feeling an itch whenever he sees naked girls. When Theon begs to be killed, Ramsay states that he is no good to him dead. Ramsay decides to give Theon a new name, and beats him until he starts calling himself "Reek". Ramsay also sends a letter to Balon Greyjoy and a box containing Theon's penis. He threatens to flay every ironborn in the North alive if they have not left by the full moon. |
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May the NFOrce be with you always.
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xExtreme
Posts: 5810
Location: 43 6C 75 6A 2D 4E 61 70 6F 63 61
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| Posted: Thu, 13th Jun 2013 19:28 Post subject: |
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Yup. Martin has a tendency to simply overshadow a previous bad guy by some new even eviler guy, and even make you sympathetic toward the old guys. So now it's Walders and Boltons. Let's see if he's gonna make us like them somewhere down the line.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Thu, 13th Jun 2013 20:27 Post subject: |
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| Spoiler: | |
Per aspera ad astra
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headshot
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Location: UK
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65089
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 03:33 Post subject: |
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| headshot wrote: | lol I think George RR Martin would make a good Father Christmas!  |
If he follows the same pattern as the show it will be something like:
"Dear little boy, looks like this year you've been good at school, and nice with your parents. Well done. You'll get....POISONED COAL AND THE CARCASS OF YOUR PET"  |
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headshot
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 03:37 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 04:48 Post subject: |
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All I have to say is he better not kill Tyrion. You just know that Martin's fingers are itching knowing he is the most liked character. He can kill Sansa instead, no one will be sad.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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Vechter
Posts: 1029
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 05:29 Post subject: |
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I think he admitted it on some show that Tyrion was his favorite character, because of his intelligence and wit. But since it's Martin, we don't really know what to expect..
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 08:17 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by beyond1 on Tue, 1st Jul 2025 17:22; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 09:25 Post subject: |
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According to Martin's flawed logic - Tyrion should have been dead several times over.
He's trying to make a point about Starks being killed because they're honorable - and honor is obviously stupid in Westeros.
But Tyrion makes SO many stupid mistakes - it boggles the mind. He provokes every person in power he comes across and he bitch slaps a psychotic evil King I don't know how many times. As if being family mattered in the slightest to Insano Kid.
Ultimately, the point is that there's no point except shock value. Martin likes to shock people and that's it.
If he kills off Tyrion soon - then maybe he has a point, but I don't see it happening. He clearly loves freaks and ugly people more than anything.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 09:37 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | According to Martin's flawed logic - Tyrion should have been dead several times over.
He's trying to make a point about Starks being killed because they're honorable - and honor is obviously stupid in Westeros.
But Tyrion makes SO many stupid mistakes - it boggles the mind. He provokes every person in power he comes across and he bitch slaps a psychotic evil King I don't know how many times. As if being family mattered in the slightest to Insano Kid.
Ultimately, the point is that there's no point except shock value. Martin likes to shock people and that's it.
If he kills off Tyrion soon - then maybe he has a point, but I don't see it happening. He clearly loves freaks and ugly people more than anything. |
he is a lannister, and they mostly dont die.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 11:39 Post subject: |
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At this time Tyrion is a Lannister, you don't touch a Lannister. He knows he has all the powerr, and he uses it. He's a cocky little bastard. I don't get how that can be considered "big mistakes". He just likes to irritate people, which can be perfectly explained by his life as a dwarf in a family of "lions".
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 12:02 Post subject: |
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Oh, you don't touch a Lannister.
Right, that must be why Jamie is missing a hand.
Try again.
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fraich3
Posts: 2907
Location: Not from my mouth!
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 12:11 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | According to Martin's flawed logic - Tyrion should have been dead several times over.
He's trying to make a point about Starks being killed because they're honorable - and honor is obviously stupid in Westeros.
But Tyrion makes SO many stupid mistakes - it boggles the mind. He provokes every person in power he comes across and he bitch slaps a psychotic evil King I don't know how many times. As if being family mattered in the slightest to Insano Kid.
Ultimately, the point is that there's no point except shock value. Martin likes to shock people and that's it.
If he kills off Tyrion soon - then maybe he has a point, but I don't see it happening. He clearly loves freaks and ugly people more than anything. |
He doesn't kill off characters for shock value, he kills them off so that people who read the books, or watch the show, always have that tension of not knowing what happens. Not knowing when or if a character dies. He has explained this numerous times, that he hates the idea in every book or film the audience always knows the hero is going to live all the way through.
"Zipfero is the biggest fucking golddigger ever" - Mutantius
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 12:30 Post subject: |
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| fraich3 wrote: | | Casus wrote: | According to Martin's flawed logic - Tyrion should have been dead several times over.
He's trying to make a point about Starks being killed because they're honorable - and honor is obviously stupid in Westeros.
But Tyrion makes SO many stupid mistakes - it boggles the mind. He provokes every person in power he comes across and he bitch slaps a psychotic evil King I don't know how many times. As if being family mattered in the slightest to Insano Kid.
Ultimately, the point is that there's no point except shock value. Martin likes to shock people and that's it.
If he kills off Tyrion soon - then maybe he has a point, but I don't see it happening. He clearly loves freaks and ugly people more than anything. |
He doesn't kill off characters for shock value, he kills them off so that people who read the books, or watch the show, always have that tension of not knowing what happens. Not knowing when or if a character dies. He has explained this numerous times, that he hates the idea in every book or film the audience always knows the hero is going to live all the way through. |
Yes, I know what he says - I'm talking about what he does.
I have absolutely no doubt that he enjoys shocking his audience. After something like the Red Wedding - there's going to be no tension. People aren't going to invest after something like that.
He should have been more subtle and been less obsessed with shock value.
Ned Stark was perfect - because no one saw that coming at all. If you use it sparingly - it will have a much more profound effect.
I didn't foresee the severity of the Red Wedding - but I knew it was only a matter of time before something shocking happened again.
If he wanted tension - he wouldn't be so exclusive about who he kills, and he would be less obsessed with doing it with such pointless excess.
I know the TV show goes further - but the source is still pointlessly excessive.
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fraich3
Posts: 2907
Location: Not from my mouth!
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:21 Post subject: |
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I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say you have not read the books.
"Zipfero is the biggest fucking golddigger ever" - Mutantius
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:30 Post subject: |
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| fraich3 wrote: | | I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say you have not read the books. |
I've read most of the first book - but since I didn't much like it, I didn't finish it.
Are you saying the books are so very different in this way? I've seen several interviews where many details and differences are discussed. I understand that some characters die in the show that live in the books, and the reverse is also true. But from what I gather, the "gist" of both is very much the same thing.
Could you come up with some concrete examples of how the books aren't like I'm talking about, as I'd like to know?
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fraich3
Posts: 2907
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:07 Post subject: |
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| fraich3 wrote: | | So long since I've read the books. I can say that I think its a totally different medium and different way of presenting the events, where I enjoy, for the most parts, the way the book does it. |
I think it also depends whether or not you've read the books before watching the series. Somehow, people who've read the books first, tend to prefer them...perhaps because the atmosphere was much better. Like in that review of episode 9 you've linked, a lot of the atmosphere created by Martin for the red wedding was lacking in the show.
In any case, I find the uncertainty of the story adding much to the sense of realism, usually so lacking from fiction. That's one of the strongest reasons why I like it.
i7 6700k @ 4.4 GHZ, 2060s, 16 GB RAM, SSD, Windows 10x64.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 19:48 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | Oh, you don't touch a Lannister.
Right, that must be why Jamie is missing a hand.
Try again. |
Because these are different people? Tyrion knows exactly who he can slap around, push, offend and being obnoxious to. He knows Joffrey is not really in charge, but it is Tywin, and you saw how their conversations go. All the people in the King's Landing would not touch Tyrion because he is a Lanister. And we really didn't see Tyrion outside city walls for a long time. Wait till second part of book 3 and book 5, things drastically change.
Now Jaimie was also pushing his luck. You could see he was joking with his captors because he did not believe they would do anything to him since he is a Lanister. He knows those are Northerners, his enemies, and yet he still jokes around with them. When he loses his hand, he becomes all quite and only when he gets a bit of that Lanister power behind him he makes demands again (i.e. threatening those guards he would tell Tywin that it was them who cut his hand off).
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2013 00:21 Post subject: |
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Casus still ranting about "shock-value".
Someone should give the man a history book and he'll be whining about history being rewritten by historians for "shock value". People in noble families fucking their relatives, poisoning and killing them, raping animals, killing peasants for sport, etc. - it's all there all across the world.
But in a show like Game of Thrones, it is "shock value".
Cyrus the great killed the children of his enemy and served them for dinner to him. Henry the eighth killed wives, and had sex with every woman on two legs whilst going on a murder and torture spree. The Red Wedding is basically a direct rip-off from scottish clan history, and "moral men" being outspoken and getting killed has happened so many times in history it's not even funny (hell during the dark ages people would get burned on a stake for saying the truth)... even in modern history (JFK, Palme, Martin Luther King).
... *crackle* Shock value. *hiss* Shock value. *pop* Shock value. *crackle* Shock value. Shock value. (Broken record spins on and on)
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Jun 2013 21:53 Post subject: |
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Violent acts and atrocities aren't unrealistic.
It's the nature of how they're depicted and especially how they're built for maximum manipulation and shock value impact.
The characters are especially ridiculous.
Characters like Joffrey, Cersei, Frey and Ramsay - and their "subdued realistic cruelty" - haha, what a joke. I mean, it's not like they're spending every second of screen time maximising the impact of their evil nature - just in case the audience missed how very, very "medievally evil" they are. They strike you as real people? They don't have the slightest semblance of a redeeming feature. Ok, so maybe Cersei had a rough time being a super powerful girl in a man's world - but why the excessive cruelty towards every single person she meets? WTF? The rest of the "baddies" are so laughably out-of-touch with balance, I truly lack the words. That guy sacrificing all his children and fucking all his daughters? Oh yeah.
In fact, all medieval human beings were extreme in that way - and the warriors were all superheroes like Jamie, Ned, Robb, Robert, Bronn, Brienne, and on and on and on. Oh, such a realistic portrayal of true swordsmanship
If you really want to believe that because bad things happened in medieval history - that makes Game of Thrones a show dealing with people who're plausible and who behave just like they would have hundreds of years ago - you've got a lot to learn about reality and human nature.
But don't let me get in the way of your fantasy shock show!
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 00:00 Post subject: |
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That's a TV 'problem', not Martin's. HBO has limited time, so they're showing the most 'valuable' pieces from the books.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 00:34 Post subject: |
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Exactly. Book has so much back story that explains pretty much every main's character motivations, except maybe Joffrey who is just a prick. Ramsay has a subdued realistic cruelty? Nope, everyone knows he is a huge sadist, even Roose speaks freely of it.
Superhero warriors? We only hear about their fighting prowess from 3rd party sources, so who knows how realistic they were. It is human nature to exaggerate everything. Jaime lost to Stark men, Robb didn't even really fight but was a commander (Jon kept beating him at swordfighting consistently), Robert's greatest victory is defeating Rhaegar (somebody had to win there), Bronn is a sellsword who fights for a living so of course he is good at it, again we never saw Ned fight (in the books at least), and Brienne won a tourney. Which part is unrealistic here?
Plus this is not a biopic, but rather a fantasy book/tv show with dragons, magic, giants, and all sorts of strange things. I wouldn't give that much thought into how realistic or unrealistic some things are.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 01:58 Post subject: |
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What? The experience in the series are compressed versions of the books?!
OUTRAGE!"231
I'd never believe such a thing. I thought they were minute-for-minute representations of the books. In fact, watching paint drying hours on end, to suit the absence of shock is exactly the experience I'd pick for an hour of watching a series after work!
Week of meaningless drivel-talk, then finally, the same shocking scene occurs, but in the words of Casus, that is how entertainment is SUPPOSED to be.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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