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 Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 09:36 Post subject: |
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The major problem with this, and the Stormwolfs stance is that people are brought up with this notion of: she deserved it.
If you think about it, it's the same with people being ok with gays getting married, but they shouldn't have children because their kids will be teased in schools.
So the problem is that people want to prevent the teasing, and raping (in this case) by simply tucking it under the pillow. 'Don't talk about it, and it will be better', or 'Don't dress nicely, and you won't be raped'.
And this is utterly wrong, since it doesn't solve the problem, just hides it from plain sight. Like treating the symptom, and not the disease.
We need to educate people, that just because a girl dressed a bit provocatively, doesn't give you the right to force yourself on her.
And someone said: if she teases you, and you buy her drinks expecting to get laid, then you're both morons. She's a bitch cause she used you, and you're a moron because you fell for it. Plain and simple.
red_avatar said that we should educate girls not to dress provocatively, so that they should avoid getting raped. And that's utter bs.
We need to educate ppl that rape is wrong, and parents need to educate their kids not to be assholes of humanity by acting like douchebags 
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 09:40 Post subject: |
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Nice personal attacks guys, very classy.
As for the poll, read the fucking article linked to in the OP.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 10:04 Post subject: |
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The OP asked opinions on acceptability of rape, so ppl responded
The table in the article, which is wrong (from the web page), in the end served a little to the discussion.
And yes, some attacks are vicious, and are going through several threads, but I think mods will clean it up, when they see it
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
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Ankh
Posts: 23359
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 10:20 Post subject: |
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I agree. But as a somewhat temporary solution until the general feelings towards rape is changed I think it seems like a logical precaution. I guess in other circumstances this is how people would do. It's generally considered a bad thing to hit people in the head but if I go up to huge bald white soccerfan and tell him his mom sucked my dick last night I would imagine I might get slapped a bit. If you know how to avoid unwanted situations, why not do it? Atleast to some extent.
(ye ye I know the example is bad but I think the point is still valid)
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 10:27 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: |  |
Don't get me wrong, I am against rape in all cases, but this picture is fucking retarded on so many levels.
I am even going to skip the fact that not all rapes are male on female.
The picture is still moronic and overly simplistic.
Both sexes should be taught right from wrong in all regards. People should be told: *THIS* is wrong, and here's *WHY*. Not just an edict. Not just DON'T RAPE, but here's WHY you don't rape. Here's why it's not OK: because you're harming another human being, who has the same sort of thoughts and feelings that you do. And you're hurting them in a way that goes beyond; you're seriously damaging them, fucking up their lives. And if you accept that, then you're an abysmal human being and you don't deserve to live on this planet with the rest of us. That's what you teach them, not "DON'T RAPE".
The people that rape women because they wear skimpy outfits? It's a matter of being evil. Plain and simple.
You have to teach people not WHAT to think, but HOW to think. Of course, a bunch of morons with no critical thinking skills and morals are going to think it's OK to fuck anything that has a hole and can't say no at the moment (or hell, even if it can).
The only form of stopping rape is bringing some real education about this subject. It is not about respecting women, it's about a generation of people that literally lack empathy for anyone, men or women. They take advantage of anyone at any time the second they see a benefit in it. You're not going to fix that by saying "TELL THEM NOT TO RAPE".
The people that do this kind of shit don't care about that. To prevent this we have to start with the education system, we have to start with the way parents raise their kids.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 11:47 Post subject: |
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Men and women = they fuck, part of who we are its what we do as a species, playing with iphones etc is not the normality of human survival. So...
Women or men that wear clothing to almost show off or flirt with the natural parts of the body that entice the male or female stirrings be them classed as insane or normal etc is that a given right and does the outcomes in rape due to possibly said clothing wearing of a man or woman apparently starting such a rape from that mean rapists should not be classed as evil but its more to do with the genetic neanderthal make up that still resides in all of us.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 14:54 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: | Men and women = they fuck, part of who we are its what we do as a species, playing with iphones etc is not the normality of human survival. So...
Women or men that wear clothing to almost show off or flirt with the natural parts of the body that entice the male or female stirrings be them classed as insane or normal etc is that a given right and does the outcomes in rape due to possibly said clothing wearing of a man or woman apparently starting such a rape from that mean rapists should not be classed as evil but its more to do with the genetic neanderthal make up that still resides in all of us. |
So... how many people have you accidentally raped because they were underdressed because of this neanderthal that, according to you, still resides in "all of us"?
If 'none', how were you able to stop yourself from the neanderthal taking over and not just raping every woman at the beach?
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 15:05 Post subject: |
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Statistics show that 2 out of 3 people enjoy gang rape.
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, MSI RTX 5070 Ti Ventus 3X OC , Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 15:46 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | moosenoodles wrote: | Men and women = they fuck, part of who we are its what we do as a species, playing with iphones etc is not the normality of human survival. So...
Women or men that wear clothing to almost show off or flirt with the natural parts of the body that entice the male or female stirrings be them classed as insane or normal etc is that a given right and does the outcomes in rape due to possibly said clothing wearing of a man or woman apparently starting such a rape from that mean rapists should not be classed as evil but its more to do with the genetic neanderthal make up that still resides in all of us. |
So... how many people have you accidentally raped because they were underdressed because of this neanderthal that, according to you, still resides in "all of us"?
If 'none', how were you able to stop yourself from the neanderthal taking over and not just raping every woman at the beach? |
fisk you are reading too much into it, its just for an understanding that those things still exist in all man and woman or beast... to say it does not though would state you are totally unaware of being a human being and what we started off as...
People today have been groomed to behave and do the "apparent" right thing unto others etc,, that does not mean the animal instict is still not very present it just means its shielded. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 16:03 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: | | fisk wrote: | | moosenoodles wrote: | Men and women = they fuck, part of who we are its what we do as a species, playing with iphones etc is not the normality of human survival. So...
Women or men that wear clothing to almost show off or flirt with the natural parts of the body that entice the male or female stirrings be them classed as insane or normal etc is that a given right and does the outcomes in rape due to possibly said clothing wearing of a man or woman apparently starting such a rape from that mean rapists should not be classed as evil but its more to do with the genetic neanderthal make up that still resides in all of us. |
So... how many people have you accidentally raped because they were underdressed because of this neanderthal that, according to you, still resides in "all of us"?
If 'none', how were you able to stop yourself from the neanderthal taking over and not just raping every woman at the beach? |
fisk you are reading too much into it, its just for an understanding that those things still exist in all man and woman or beast... to say it does not though would state you are totally unaware of being a human being and what we started off as...
People today have been groomed to behave and do the "apparent" right thing unto others etc,, that does not mean the animal instict is still not very present it just means its shielded. |
The field of criminal psychology disagrees with you. It is one of the common misconceptions, that rape somehow has something to do with the biological drive to procreate. 80% of all rape-cases are done by someone who knows the victim. It is not about pleasure or sex, it is about control. The rapists want to control and degrade the woman in question preferrably through intimidation and physical violence. In most criminal cases rapes have been premeditated, planned and the victim chosen based on vulnerability or availability. WHO classifies it as a crime of male sexual entitlement (power).
sources:
http://well.wvu.edu/articles/rape_myths_and_facts
http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/
http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/articles/rapefeat.html
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 16:30 Post subject: |
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| Newty182 wrote: | | Statistics show that 2 out of 3 people enjoy gang rape. |
9 out of 10 internet doctors agree with this. |
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 16:31 Post subject: |
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they say rape is rape but in what im looking at here with what ur saying, rape == many nuances depending on wether man/woman has a mental illness..
to me what you are saying about men or women wanting to abuse, control and terrify people with rape is like saying well no it was not the case all those years ago when cave man wanted to ... oh hang on rape? have sex for pleasure? no thats right it was an urge/procreation...
if you are saying that does not exist today or wether you are trying to say that all sex is now just an emotional thing, well think again, you can not break in my eyes the very purpose we exist down to an overtime conditioning where that apparently does not exist in our nature no more..
just saying :O
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 16:37 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: |
to me what you are saying about men or women wanting to abuse, control and terrify people with rape is like saying well no it was not the case all those years ago when cave man wanted to ... oh hang on rape? have sex for pleasure? no thats right it was an urge/procreation... |
On what basis do you claim that caveman raped?
And what about children who get raped? What about elderly who get raped? Men who get raped? Procreation? Think not.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 16:41 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: | they say rape is rape but in what im looking at here with what ur saying, rape == many nuances depending on wether man/woman has a mental illness..
to me what you are saying about men or women wanting to abuse, control and terrify people with rape is like saying well no it was not the case all those years ago when cave man wanted to ... oh hang on rape? have sex for pleasure? no thats right it was an urge/procreation...
if you are saying that does not exist today or wether you are trying to say that all sex is now just an emotional thing, well think again, you can not break in my eyes the very purpose we exist down to an overtime conditioning where that apparently does not exist in our nature no more..
just saying :O |
1. What do you know about cavemen/neanderthals and their sexual lives? Even IF it occured as oftenly as you postulate, it may just as well have had to do with "men raping to 'feel' entitled/excert dominance".
2. Again, people have "urges"/"impulses" all the time, mentally well people are able to understand them and control them. For example, if I get pissed off, I do not end the guy I get pissed off at, I use words. That was where I was going before with the question you dodged.
3. If your hypothesis on urges being a part of the equation, then both women and men would rape each other on equal basis. They do not. It is a very one-gender focused activity. The vast majority of rapes are done by males. The behaviour is indeed primitive, but it is a way for men who feel powerless to try and feel less powerless.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 17:03 Post subject: |
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im not saying it as you are saying it you two ffs..
for instance if cave people had no real form of communication, and she could not say yes in your view lol is that not rape 
you over sensative buggers... if you are hell bent on thinking your views are the only views, then just dont debate, im a firm believer that we DONT know all the answers to dna/genes and how we form from the basic cell of it all.. goto love how you all base your views on what you have been told from various studies and other already well conditioned and brought up civil folk over the years, when you spare no thought to they may be wrong at all lol..
if you were back in the 50's I bet you would of been one of the people to agree that smoking was not bad for you lol :O
women were still objects 100 years ago:
thoughts on the alpha male here maybe and those with no social standing or power raping? isnt that a bit like saying hey let me fuck all who i want in my tribe? as part of the control you speak of?
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 17:31 Post subject: |
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I don't even understand how someone could not understand this....
I would never rape anyone. it's disqusting... and now that I am in relationship for 5 years, I don't even want to imagine if someone coud touch me second half. i would kill the guys or better - let him be raped in prison
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 18:13 Post subject: |
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| moosenoodles wrote: | they say rape is rape but in what im looking at here with what ur saying, rape == many nuances depending on wether man/woman has a mental illness..
to me what you are saying about men or women wanting to abuse, control and terrify people with rape is like saying well no it was not the case all those years ago when cave man wanted to ... oh hang on rape? have sex for pleasure? no thats right it was an urge/procreation...
if you are saying that does not exist today or wether you are trying to say that all sex is now just an emotional thing, well think again, you can not break in my eyes the very purpose we exist down to an overtime conditioning where that apparently does not exist in our nature no more..
just saying :O |
Do a lot of things we do today someway transfer back to a more direct biological need? Sure. But we are sentient beings in a constant state of evolvement. You can't put so much emphasis on evolution and "natural instincts" and then discount everything else. It is simply a fact that this cave man mentality is almost never the cause for something like rape. We are not cave men. We are far from it.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 18:27 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | wat @ results
Only okay when it's a rapist being anally raped in prison. |
qFT
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 18:36 Post subject: |
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TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 22:14 Post subject: |
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if girl decides to walk around naked with a sign that says "please rape me" its still wrong to do.
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 22:16 Post subject: |
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| Paintface wrote: | | if girl decides to walk around naked with a sign that says "please rape me" its still wrong to do. |
Well, what if she not only likes it but actually gets off on it?
But then again, that's not really rape then is it?
So confused.  |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 22:22 Post subject: |
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| Paintface wrote: | | if girl decides to walk around naked with a sign that says "please rape me" its still wrong to do. |
She wouldn't get her wish since rape technically requires the act to be involuntary.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Sun, 16th Jun 2013 23:14 Post subject: |
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hey man I see shit like this ALL the time.... the point is it:
MOST of us agree that under NO condition do girls ever "deserve" rape or should be punished for how they act r dress or whatever... but that would ONLY work in a perfect world.... we have different cultures that look at white girls as cheap sluts only, others who are learning everything is about sex and are over sexualized thanks to media and porn and many others are clearly just plain ignorant to what constitutes sexual harassment, assault or rape. Then you have the criminals who just dont care, mentally ill people and as fisk alluded to earlier family members which constitute the biggest issue in this regard.
WITH THAT SAID.... If any girl goes out to sketchy parts of town dressed in booty shorts and tank-top that says SLUT on it and attracts the wrong kind of attention or worse, then they shouldn't be surprised... AGAIN this doesn't mean the girl deserved it or should be punished or that this is ok...absolutely not and the guy has to be punished as the sole responsible person! BUTTTTT if you dont think that a girl that gets trashed or goes to a party and pops every drug or any number of other stuff isnt increasing the odds of sexual assault many times over then you are living in a fantasy land.
Yes it would be GREAT if any girl could go out naked and be perfectly fine but this isnt a dream.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 00:10 Post subject: |
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Thats about the same stance I have on it MAX.
I don't condone with it, agree it EVER right, or that someone should have it happen for any reason. But knowingly raising your chances to have it happen, knowing it happens is a bit odd to me.
Yes, a woman should be able to go out naked and never be as much as touched, Or dressed in the most slutty clothes she can find and wearing her "fuck me" heels and feel totally safe and positive she wont get raped....But its not a perfect world, and everyone knows that.
I see it like this. No one should ever be mugged, raped, or stolen from. Common sense. BUT it happens.
You wouldn't go out with $100 bills hanging out of all your pockets into a poor part of town walking around, head down a dark alley then seem totally shocked the guy that's been following you mugs you. Your going into an area flaunting what people there are wanting and looking for.
You wouldn't go into a soup kitchen for the homeless with a big clear bag full of shrimp and steaks, walking around waving it at each one so they could smell it, then walk outside alone headed down the street and be surprised one of them jumps you and tries to take some food. Your going into an area flaunting what people there are wanting and looking for.
Then a woman goes to a bar dressed one step up from a stripper at work, flirting, teasing, and being sexy for the free drinks she can get out of the guys..then acts shocked if when she leaves one of them is following her and she suspects he might be about to rape her. Your going into an area flaunting what people there are wanting and looking for.
again I'm NOT saying its right, or that she deserves it, or that the guy shouldn't be punished to hell and back for doing it. Just that, in our imperfect and fucked up world, that she statistically raised her chances of having it happen, no matter how fucked up it is that it happens in our world. Is it her fault she was raped? no the guy is the one that has to do the action and choices for it to happen. I think she just helped the guy narrow down the choices of which target hes going after.
And this doesn't apply to the children rape, or elderly..or such. Those are a whole different story and mindset usually that trigger those sick fucks to do it. Im addressing the asinine "I should be able to dress like I just walked out of Victoria Secret and feel safe".
Yes, yes you should, I agree with that. Just like I should also be able to walk around downtown new york at 4am waving a stack of $100 bills and feel safe. BUT i know I can't despite how wrong that it is that i cant. So I avoid putting myself in the situation where I might cause things, that shouldn't happen, to happen.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 00:12 Post subject: |
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| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | hey man I see shit like this ALL the time.... the point is it:
MOST of us agree that under NO condition do girls ever "deserve" rape or should be punished for how they act r dress or whatever... but that would ONLY work in a perfect world.... we have different cultures that look at white girls as cheap sluts only, others who are learning everything is about sex and are over sexualized thanks to media and porn and many others are clearly just plain ignorant to what constitutes sexual harassment, assault or rape. Then you have the criminals who just dont care, mentally ill people and as fisk alluded to earlier family members which constitute the biggest issue in this regard.
WITH THAT SAID.... If any girl goes out to sketchy parts of town dressed in booty shorts and tank-top that says SLUT on it and attracts the wrong kind of attention or worse, then they shouldn't be surprised... AGAIN this doesn't mean the girl deserved it or should be punished or that this is ok...absolutely not and the guy has to be punished as the sole responsible person! BUTTTTT if you dont think that a girl that gets trashed or goes to a party and pops every drug or any number of other stuff isnt increasing the odds of sexual assault many times over then you are living in a fantasy land.
Yes it would be GREAT if any girl could go out naked and be perfectly fine but this isnt a dream. |
Nobody here, against rape, is arguing against stupidity. We aren't ignorants. There are people here who say IT IS OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO RAPE WOMEN under certain circumstances. It is a critical difference.
This is the same reason why people, who even though think its horrible they ahve to do so, say to their kids never talk to strangers or you shouldn't leave your drink unguarded in a club
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DXWarlock
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