It's the same with Shadowrun, Inter. They wanted $400k, got $1.2m, then said it wasn't enough for to implement what they really wanted - so the game was scaled back. Just like DF; it makes me wonder what could have been accomplished had they only received the needed amount. Don't get me wrong, I have enormous faith in DF and I'm beyond psyched for Shadowrun from HBS, but the development process is looking bizarre considering they got 3-8x their desired amount for each team.
Oh and at least it got DF to finally release Brütal Legend on the PC, so it's not all bad
I guess that maybe they underestimated the final costs of implementing everything they wanted into the games? When they reached the initial funding they were a bit too enthusiastic with what extra content to add.
(Voice acting, motion capture animations, professional software, salaries, computer tech and well I don't know how the money is used.)
I mean AAA developer studios has the publisher spending millions in investment plus marketing and other costs so while receiving 1 million or more in crowd funding is good it must be difficult to balance the expenses.
Well they have talked about this in their updates... Since they got significantly more money, they realised that they will have to expand on their initial idea. At first they all thought that they will be doing some really old-school, Day of Tentacle style game (graphically speaking as well). But it all kinda grew larger than they expected and they figured they'd need to deliver more than originally planned.
They also said that these things are normal, it's just that people don't see it, since they don't have an inside look of the development. They always face situations where you have to cut back on some initial ideas and get some additional funding - normally from the publisher which is now absent (and they specifically said that they don't want to go to 3rd parties for money, since all this was about them not being financially obligated to anyone and work on their own terms for the sake of the backers), so they had to get more creative.
They sounded much more optimistic in their subsequent updates since the episode about their financial and time window difficulties aired
The difference is, people aren't super-rich publishers and eventually disappointment is going to set in when it comes to Kickstarter campaigns that promise X, take Y money yet deliver Z.
These things will happen either way - I doubt there will be a lack of projects that disappoint in the end. But in case of Double Fine - they are still delivering more than they intended.
Right from the start they were saying (warning) it won't be some huge adventure game, but I suppose some people will still have too high expectations and end up being disappointed in the end.
The added danger that comes from having a transparent development was also something they discussed. Normally people wouldn't even know that there were some cutbacks when they get the game in their hands. But now they do, and will start to look where DF have failed even if the product is good.
The added danger that comes from having a transparent development was also something they discussed. Normally people wouldn't even know that there were some cutbacks when they get the game in their hands. But now they do, and will start to look where DF have failed even if the product is good.
In DF's case, I completely agree. What they offered on KS has already been exceeded with their current vision, so that's a good thing indeed. The downside to Kickstarter is that, regardless of people shouting "it's not a product, it's an idea!", the fact is most of these companies/devteams are making promises to their backers and they (should) have an obligation to fulfil them. If they can't, then they shouldn't be taking money from backers.
DF seem to be doing okay so far, overspending their budget is understandable given the expanded scope of the original idea, but when developers don't even live up to their original promises.. that's when I get grumpy. That's why I think KS will end up bursting eventually, especially if it carries on with more and more people pumping money into products that don't live up to their lofty promises (and yes, I'm still enormously bitter about Star Command)
I also think that, I already notice a larger movement from people that are unhappy with Kickstarter, promised where not made, release dates delayed. People are already sick of waiting.
a game that was made for like $1k or $2k but they WANTED $400k
lets make a new ENGINE
lets use AAA actors
lets not use 8bit graphics but scanned hand draw painting
lets use animators for cartoons
lets create sets that only will be used ONCE
and
and
and
Turns out the money, which was record-making at the time (and, like HBS, they only wanted $400k ) wasn't enough after all and they can't finish the game without securing more funds. They're talking about splitting the game in half and selling it on Early Access in 2014 so as to generate more funds with which to finish the game sometime later in the year. This from the same company that decided to run a SECOND Kickstarter for a SECOND, wholly unrelated, game. Come on DF/Tim, there's a little thing called "restraint" and I do believe it should have been exercised here - not just in the grand plans for the game -- as receiving MORE money than you asked for doesn't instantly translate into a requirement of making the game eleventy times better -- but also in keeping your dreams and your feet grounded! People were pledging for the game you offered, not the game you could potentially make if you earned ten times more money. Then there's the little matter of thinking;
"Hmm, we just received a metric shitton of money to make an adventure game for our fans. Shall we crack on with it? Nah, I've a better idea! Let's run ANOTHER fucking Kickstarter for ANOTHER fucking game! We can split our development house in two, spreading our small team thinly across two grandiose projects! YES! BROFIST"
I mean... I come on! Bah. I guess I can stop hoping for a Costume Quest 2 any time soon
He surely has good intentions for his (too?) ambitious project(s), but situations like this one aren't good for KS I can already see hordes of people crying out "haha I knew it, it's a scam!"
That's all it boils down to I'm afraid; good intentions but far too ambitious a project. If they'd simply stuck to the original pitch there wouldn't be any issue - and while it is awesome to think of having a far greater, far larger, far better game coming from DF; this latest development is neither awe nor confidence inspiring DF has a development team of 65 and now they've split that between two kickstarter projects, granted one is far more ambitious than the other, but still split.
Oh and at least it got DF to finally release Brütal Legend on the PC, so it's not all bad
doesn't the whole kickstarter funding goes to the game itself?
sabin1981 wrote:
.. "restraint" ..(
100% agreed, maybe Tim needed somebody with more authority leveling down his overshooted objectives, i guess he would have get the hang of it after many games shipped.
i guess i like more the aproach of gilbert's dreamy monkey island 3:
Quote:
Sixteen - If I used Kickstarter, there would be no fancy videos of me trying to look charming (as if I could). No concept art or lofty promises or crazy stretch goals or ridiculous reward tiers. It would be raw and honest. It would be free of hype and distractions that keep me from making the best game I could. True, I wouldn't raise huge sums of money or break any records, but that's not what I want to do. I want to make a game.
I think some of the rewards hurt Double Fine too. I remember hearing in one of their documentary episodes that the cost of all the kickstarter tier rewards was close to a million dollars or something astronomical like that.
That being said this and Shadowrun were sort of the pioneers of this type of large scale game funding so I wouldn't write off kickstarter just yet. There were bound to be some mistakes since its such a new thing. Hopefully the games at least come out with all that is promised and that future projects can learn from the mistakes.
Maybe they should do like Star Citizen and keep donations or rewards available via other means to secure further funding during development?
It's a learning experience for them (And other studios using Kickstarter.) I guess, hopefully Double Fine can solve this issue without angering the backers too much but we'll have to see what they decide to do about it.
I wouldn't say that it will hurt kickstarter badly. It might hurt DF and their next project Massive Chalice and will hurt Double Fine's image. It shows that they really can't set and manage realistic goals.
I don't know how big is this game but it's pretty scary when they say they can't even finish the first chapter because there is not enough funds. Especially when they got a lot of money. And what they show now is a beginners mistake. Something you would expect from a young development studio and not experienced one.
Somehow Wasteland or Grim Dawn doesn't struggle with that, at least not yet. Plus those two keep people updated with some real work done on the project and not another funny video starring Tim...
Stuff like this is bound to happen. Kickstarter is in its infancy, after all, and many of these high-profile projects are done by people that were more or less out of touch with the industry for at least a couple of years - which is bound to cause problems with the initial costs evaluation. Of course, bloated ambitions and overhyping aren't helping, either.
I believe Shafer when he says it's actually pretty normal in a development cycle, but it doesn't change facts - he promised something he can't deliver. Perhaps development cycle needs to be adjusted, then, needs to evolve - because some things that can happen in a normal, publisher-funded scenario simply can't be happening with a crowd funded project.
It might hurt Kickstarter, esspecially since cutting the game in half and releasing it unfinished is probably not the best solution and it will make people angry (rightfully so). Then again, we probably need just one success to show it can be done and the interest and trust will flare up again. Yes, Wasteland 2, I'm looking at you
Well its obvious when they got 3mil instead of 400k the scope of the game changed dramatically. Maybe they were too ambitious... But at least he's being honest about it, so that counts for something...
Also as i understand it, their solution isn't at all bad. Release on part of the game to the public, then release the other half later, backers still get the whole game.
I think people take kickstarter too seriously. It's meant to be funding a project not buying a finished product. Whatever i back, i kinda forget about it for a while and as long as problems are admitted and solutions are found i don't feel cheated or anything.
DF is also a special case because they are too obsessed with quality. Brütal Legend required a 20 million dollar budged to be polished into the gem it is. Psychonauts was also very expensive by early-2000s standards.
If they manage to split the game in two parts with the first part ending with a satisfying "halfway there" conclusion, I can see the Steam Early Access option being successful by word of mouth advertising. The first part would need to work for itself, having it's own drama and climax that gives you a sense of temporary closure while leaving the big showdown for the second part. It would need to be like a LotR film.
I think people take kickstarter too seriously. It's meant to be funding a project not buying a finished product.
No offence xxax, but I'm really growing tired of hearing that about Kickstarter. "It's an IDEA not a PRODUCT! You're DONATING not BUYING" just... just fuck off with that People get "serious" about KS when they're "donating, natch!" several MILLION dollars. It's kinda a big deal, you know? So no, I really don't care what some people claim Kickstarter is; the end result and the absolute bottom line for the vast majority of people is that they're funding development of a product that they will then receive. Don't believe me? Don't accept that? Then try and imagine how many people would "donate" to a Kickstarter if they were getting NOTHING AT ALL in return.
"Here! Take all my money to make this game -- don't worry, I'll also buy it at full price when it launches" said nobody.
I would certainly never give money to a developer so that they can make a game and I get sweet FA except the privilege of paying more for it later on when they release it.
Double Fine fucked up. Let me tell you something: I do price calculation every single day. I have to go over every aspect of the company, make sure I get quotes on everything involved and when I have to deal with something entirely new, I make sure that I have enough margin in case something goes wrong. But, the difference here, is that I have to end up with a price that is acceptable for the customer.
Here, they had the funds, they just had to do it the other way round: look at what was possible and add 30% margin. Instead, they stuck their heads up their collective asses, started a project whose reception has been very lukewarm (I hate the art style myself) and now they say they need millions more to be able to complete it. It's a shambles, a massive failure of the most basic law of business: limiting costs, making a proper budget.
All you said is true, and this is how DF roll. It's one of the two reasons why publishers hate them (the other being that they don't make cover shooters), their projects are always overambitious and go over budget. They obsess over details and spend too much money designing things that aren't necessary for a game to be playable.
Maybe they should do like Star Citizen and keep donations or rewards available via other means to secure further funding during development?
they are already doing... "salcker backer" option aviliable for months... gathered more then 150k,still not enough..
despite all the Drama,in the end
they are not THAT massed up ,we already have compenies doing episodic stuffs,and people still getting the game,3 monthes deleay(in the best case) for only one episode to wait it's lots better then to wait almost year to get 4 episodes to complete the game like the Walking Dead.
Jack Black Joins The Voice Cast Of Double Fine's Broken Age
pax 2013
by Kyle Hilliard on September 01, 2013 at 06:10 PM 3,348 Views
25
In a new video showcasing the voice actors of Broken Age, Double Fine revealed that Jack Black (among other notable voice actors), is joining the cast as Harm'ny Lightbeard, "The lifter of clouds." The announcement of Black's inclusion was made official during Double Fine's panel at PAX.
Jack Black has worked with Double Fine before, when he played Eddie Riggs in Brütal Legend. His role in Broken Age appears to be more of a cameo, as he punches Tim Schafer in the end of the video below as retaliation for giving him a small role.
The video also reveals that the talents of Jennifer Hale (Mass Effect, Bioshock Infinite, etc.), Richard Horvitz (Raz from Psychonauts), and many other new and returning Double Fine actors will be making an audible appearance in Broken Age.
Broken Age's firm release date is still ambiguous, but Double Fine is hoping to get at least some of the game in players' hands in early 2014.
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but they WANTED $400k 
People get "serious" about KS when they're "donating, natch!" several MILLION dollars. It's kinda a big deal, you know? So no, I really don't care what 
