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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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 Posted: Sun, 14th Jul 2013 22:11 Post subject: Need some help from ze Germans on ze hump! |
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Hope one of you can help me out with this one because my parents are gonna lose some money on this bullshit.
So, my dad bought an Alpine CDE-125BT almost 2 years ago, thinking it was a good product because, you know, it's Alpine. He bought it at MediaMarkt just across the border, because there's sometimes a ridiculous difference in products. Even though there's another MediaMarkt on this side of the border not even 15km away from that one, there's sometimes differences of 100-150 EUR.
Anyway, shortly after he bought it the USB port on the damn thing ceased working. Just wouldn't recognise any device; in fact, it wouldn't even power up any flash drive. Fine, he went back with it to claim warranty. They sent it to Alpine and a week later he received a phonecall to pick it up; they claimed it worked fine. And so it did once reinstalled in his car. At least, for a month or 4. Same shit happened, USB port died yet again. Once again took it back, it was once again sent off to Alpine and again it came back with the claim that it wasn't broken. And again, it worked fine once reinstalled. At least, for a month or 7. Yep, same shit. This time MM threw a fit warning that it was the last time they'd take the damn thing in without costs - this time my dad's flash drive was sent with it as well. I wrote an email to Alpine for him as well (Kuro will remember this  ). Again, piece of shit came back with the same message: not broken.
The email was useless as well, the response pretty much consisted of "CHECK YOUR FLASH DRIVE ETC  ".
Well guess what happened last week? Yeah. Took 11 months this time, but it's still fucked again.
So, before anyone goes "you sure it's the unit and not the flash drive/car wiring/whatever?" - yes, I sure as hell am. I've had the unit hooked up to both my previous and current car and it still failed; I've also thrown at least 8 or 9 different flash drives at it - each of which work fine on *any* other head unit I've tried (my own, neighbour's, cousin's, brother's). I'd take it back for my dad, but my German isn't good enough to really stand up to them and I sure as hell don't know German law on this front. I do know that here in NL we are exceptionally well protected and under EU law, there's a minimum of 2 years warranty by the seller. With that, burden of proof is on us to prove that it wasn't mishandled; not sure how we'd do that other than giving them the flash drive again, but I'm sure I can manage convincing them of that.
Is there anything in German law we can use to our advantage? Because last time the service employees at MM over there were absolute assholes and I'm sure they'll try and force my dad to pay. I'm sorry, but paying repairs on a 23 month old unit that's been "repaired" 3 times already and cost 170 EUR at the time is ridiculous. My 130 EUR head unit worked fine for 4 years until I sold my previous car and I used its USB port a hell of a lot more. If he had bought it over here I would've had no issues taking it back for him, because I know exactly what to tell them over here. There's also ways to get consumer organisations to back you up, without having to actually sue them. I just don't know how to do this in a German shop :/
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Jul 2013 23:05 Post subject: |
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1 thing i'm damn sure about, AT LEAST notify them of the problem before it hits 24 months.
Because then they can't claim that you came outside warranty period with the problem 
And if you are looking to report them for not upholding EU standards: http://www.eccnl.eu/ ( http://www.eccnl.eu/page/nl/themas/Kopen-in-de-EU )
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Jul 2013 23:10 Post subject: |
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I'm aware of all that, I'm just looking for extra ammo really.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Jul 2013 23:19 Post subject: |
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If its in the warranty period they have to take it. They usually (at least here) bitch and moan about it, but in the end they have to take it.
And if they don't repair it in a certain amount of days you get a shiny new one! Or your money back!
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 10:33 Post subject: |
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| flipp wrote: | | Contact Alpine directly (english will do). Be friendly, nobody wants to help a ranting dutchman |
Been there, done that. Zero help from them. Won't ever buy their shit again, that's for sure |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 10:49 Post subject: |
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unless someone here is an actual lawyer, how could a german possibly help ? Don't get me wrong, i wish they could, but asking for legal advice to people on the net ... yeah good luck with that.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:10 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:17; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:15 Post subject: |
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yeah, i heard that so many times before ...
I am from here, i know the laws".
And its bullshit.
Most people have no clue what the laws are in their country. Sure, they know the basic stuff you shouldn't do lol, but consumer laws etc. ?
Good luck with that.
Add to that, that most people will tell you stuff they heard once or read somewhere, not knowing it to be actual fact or myth.
If you want to know about the actual laws and rights etc. ask someone you know knows what s-he is talking about, not someone who thinks s-he does.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:23 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:17; edited 1 time in total
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:24 Post subject: |
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Honestly, i very much doubt the laws around buying stuff differs very much from ours.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:26 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | Most people have no clue what the laws are in their country. Sure, they know the basic stuff you shouldn't do lol, but consumer laws etc. ? |
Here in NL people do for the most part. Especially since there's several organisations dedicated to it. And our laws go well beyond what the EU dictates, as consumers we're very well protected here.
Just figured that there's plenty of German people who do give a fuck about their rights.
@ saus: they do. We are very, very well protected here, much more so than in most other countries in Europe, let alone the US (lol Apple 1-year warranty  ) |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:26 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | yeah, i heard that so many times before ...
I am from here, i know the laws".
And its bullshit. |
| Interinactive wrote: | | for him to do further research on whatever subject/law/regulation is brought up |
Obviously if it were bullshit then nothing would come of it
I know I'd try to find out myself and then verify the information rather than paying somebody $200 an hour to do so |
There are places you can ask about consumer rights for free ...
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:27 Post subject: |
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There's a toll free number here in Sweden (even by mail) so I'm pretty sure there should be soemthing of it's like in Germany (or elsewhere in Europe).
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 11:52 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | @ saus: they do. We are very, very well protected here, much more so than in most other countries in Europe, let alone the US (lol Apple 1-year warranty ) |
I know that ours are quite awesome-o compared to the rest of the world, but we are talking about Germany here, and i honestly think that theirs are virtually the same as ours.
Especially since buying products within the EU is tied to EU laws anyway.
But my best bet is to just go and see what they have to say (i presume you know German, so it makes it easier to converse with those people), and if they refuse to apply warranty, just report them to the ECC. Don't think there is much more to it then that.
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 16:17 Post subject: |
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Well, that's MediaMarkt for you. They're always throwing fits.
I'd give the other MediaMarkt (the one 15km from the one where your Dad bought it) a try also.
Other than that... well, asking to get your money back on ex gratia or getting a new/similar product (just a different unit) would be worth a try too.
Stuff like this is exactly why markets like MM are slowly dying out and is exactly why I order my stuff always online.
But I have to agree with Sin there, many people think they know about this stuff but they mostly don't. Even though the legit information is easy to get from our institute for consumer protection. Most people think they have 14 days of time to give back products and get their money back, that it's their right. Thing is, that's only one half of the thruth.
Truth is, that law is for buying things online only these days and doesn't apply to retail anymore. They've changed that over the years. You get your 2 years warranty from the seller and maybe more from the company that made the product (but after these 2 years, MM wouldn't be responsible for it anymore and you would have to deal with Alpine by yourself). Everything else is on ex gratia.
So, yeah, doesn't look good. The chances that you guys are getting your money back is extremely slim hence why I said you should try the other MM too. Every MM handles it's shit differently as far as I know. It's almost like it's franchised. (But be ready to explain your situation to them.)
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 16:58 Post subject: |
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| m3th0d2008 wrote: | | Well, that's MediaMarkt for you. They're always throwing fits. |
The ones around here never do. 1 broken DVD player resulted in 2 RMA'd ones being returned to me...and an entirely different model as the actual replacement (yep, 3 DVD players for the price of one - was a faulty product range apparently) 
Then again in this part of the country it seems most shops are much more agreeable than further up north anyhow; I've gotten my money back from MM several times for all sorts of things, in computer hardware I've had my 8800 GTS replaced with a 9800 GTX (and that one replaced AGAIN after that), reference 680 replaced with DCU2 and so on. Those same shops have got tons of horror stories on the web where people couldn't return something or claim warranty. Shops around here really do stick to "the customer is king". Doesn't make sense not to either, they've all got agreements with their suppliers so they don't actually lose any money at all.
| Quote: | | I'd give the other MediaMarkt (the one 15km from the one where your Dad bought it) a try also. |
Tried that already, they can't take it here in NL (it's 15km...cross border ) because they don't have that article code in their system. Did speak with the service manager over here and he said that Alpine and/or MM should be able to prove that it broke due to mishandling and not due to a manufacturing error. Sad part is that I can't really do much to prove the reverse of that and if they just go "LOL ERR YEAH YOUR USB STICKS ALL SUCK" I've got absolutely nothing to defend myself with unless I get an expert opinion.
Oh well, guess I'll have to put on my best German and see if I can persuade them  |
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 17:04 Post subject: |
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I've went through similar stuff myself and my German didn't help at all. It comes down to luck. The luck of having the right person infront of you who isn't an asshat. Sad, but true.
2011 - 2016 Build • Fractal Design R5 Titanium (Window) • i5-2500K @ 4,5GHz • Corsair Hydro h115i • ASRock Fatal1ty P67 Performance • 2x4Gb G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9-4GBRL • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair RM550(W) PSU • 2x Samsung 850 Evo (120gb/500gb) •
2018 - x Build • Fractal Design Define R6 Gunmetal • Intel Core i9 9900K • Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO • Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO • 2x16Gb Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4-3200 • EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+ • Corsair HX850i PSU • 1x Samsung 970 Evo M.2, 1x Samsung 860 Evo SATA, 1x Samsung 850 Evo SATA •
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