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garus
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Posts: 34197
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 Posted: Tue, 9th Jul 2013 20:22 Post subject: |
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Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Tue, 9th Jul 2013 20:47 Post subject: |
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Someone check the news and see if hell is freezing over cause I sort of agreed with Fisk too. Although I don't think what he says is possible. That first crush/love is not that easy to forget or distance urself from or move on. Also extremely hard to play the hard to get games since ur so desperate for any attention and don't wanna push her away even more.
Only thing that will work now is time. I would say u don't need to forget about her but do limit contact and info cause ull just get more and more hurt, jealous and upset. Make More male friends and hang out with them too. This will open more avenues of meeting girls (friends of friends, meeting girls when out with boys) and makes it less scary than to approach a girl alone on ur own.
Lastly this post is so cute I wanna pet ur head and pinch ur cheeks..... No homo... No creep..... K maybe a bit homo...
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| Posted: Tue, 9th Jul 2013 21:20 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: |
Most of them do. But they get turned off by desperation. It's true they love attention, so does every human being on the planet, including the OP (which is why he felt so good in her company). |
No, most of them don't. You'll find 10-20 girls who flirt for attention and compliments for every one girl who actually wants to sleep with you - this is pretty much common knowledge so I'm surprised you'd actually argue against this.
| Quote: |
"Teasing and flirting" is in the eye of the beholder. If you think a smile is "flirting" then it's you being silly and over interpreting stuff. |
Again, you seem to say they don't flirt and guys just misinterpret them - except many do. Sure, sometimes a smile gets misinterpreted but that doesn't mean girls don't often flirt for an ego boost - that's just silly because they do. To quote a female friend who just read my post: "girls are attention whores, I should know".
| Quote: |
Or a hundred of other things. Including wanting to have sex, but not wanting to commit. It's hard to tell since you never communicated about it. |
I abbreviated things but trust me, it wasn't about sex - it was about attention. She did this to a few other guys after me and colleagues at work actually told her off about doing that. One was an old friend who actually WAS desperate and he got quite depressed when she refused to return his feelings.
| Quote: |
Again, this is in the eye of the beholder. It's a very beta approach imo to think girls "use you". If you feel used, it is because you allow yourself to be. |
That assumes I let myself get used - which I didn't (which can't be said about her old friend). I don't believe in the alpha-beta stuff anyway - that's outdated psychology and is grossly simplistic.
| Quote: | | The same goes for any relationship, people create stuff like this together. If you act all submissive and offer shit up, yeah people will "use you" (a matter of perspective) but it's all in how YOU behave, what your interests are, how you project yourself and treat them. You are only as strong or weak as you allow yourself to be. At the bottom of it all we all struggle for recognition, certain people crave it more because they are starved of it, if you are THAT guy, it is more important to socialize and build up some confidence, or you'll "feel used" in every relationship (every girl will seem the same, but as a matter of fact YOU are the same). |
Your entire point is "if you act as if you're below her, you'll be treated like that" which I agree with in essence, BUT, that's just one small aspect of why girls do this and the far larger one STILL remains attention and ego. Girls do this, whether you're a confident guy or not. Heck, the "higher" the mark, the more of a boost it is. If they can get a cute guy to pay attention, the better they feel.
| Quote: | | Yes, because you know someone through something something told you second-hand on the Internet. Get real. This "she's fucked up" is all your interpretation from someones interpretation of a behavior from a person they only knew a little. |
Well aren't you drawing conclusions - these were all first or second hand situations which happened either with me or right in front of my nose. Try asking my brother what happened to his last relationship, wise nose.
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 01:15 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | That sounds like a familiar story. To make a few comments on what was said:
No, if girls tease you, it's not because they want sex. A lot of girls love attention, compliments and the feeling of being wanted. The problem is, that most girls are totally oblivious to the damage they do by flirting and teasing for attention. They often blame the guy when they're the ones who do the teasing. |
Everyone wants and likes attention. Maybe some girls (that are really good looking) get it easier but the fact remains, everyone wants/likes it. When i finally got over my idealistic crush in high school who was "using me" i realized that i was doing the same thing to girls that wanted to be with me.
It's hard to see but we all do it.
| red_avatar wrote: |
My point is - don't stick with girls who use you as a crutch. The reason they do it, is because they consider you "below" them and an easy way for their confidence to get a boost. It's selfish and cruel because they can tease you to death and then blame you to boot when you fall for them.
In her case, stay clear of her until she lost her feelings for her ex. She's fucked up anyway when she uses her ex as friends with benefits - I've seen some real ugly shit with girls like that and it never ever EVER ends well. Girls think differently from guys - they tend to only move on when they find someone else to be with and then "jump" to a new partner. They'll rarely break up without having a new "candidate" so if she's single, it sounds to me like the ex broke it off with her meaning there can be a lot of lingering feelings between the two. Again: STEER CLEAR. You'll be in a world of hurt if you get yourself involved. |
I don't agree with this. Fisk is right even if the semantics are not close to you (alpha, beta). You are the one that takes the role of the "crutch" as you put it. If you don't take that role its very simple, you walk away. Now as Aeon said he's hasn't had much attention regarding women, which means that now when he's getting it he can't cope and since he's jealous means he's not sure of himself. He is the one responsible for the situation. So there's no reason to "STEER CLEAR" as you put it if you understand what's happening. If you don't at least accept the consequences of your actions. I still feel that everyone needs to get past this faze. Realization that you're projecting all your ideals and hopes into one person.
Aeon my advice to you would be milk the experience for all its worth. Suffer, cry, be jealous, be happy, whatever. It's an experience that all of us can't replace by giving you advice. Sure the best way would be to forget about it all, but then you wouldn't have the experience of it. Just don't take it as a thing to put yourself down. Whatever happens will happen and you'll be richer for it.
Last edited by xxax on Wed, 10th Jul 2013 08:05; edited 2 times in total
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 07:39 Post subject: |
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Well, I think you guys are completely right that I'm the one responsible for the situation and that my acts have consequences. I could have walked away already, but if I would do that, it would bring me back in the old situation: no contact with women whatsoever. So I could milk the experience as much as possible, but it has consequences...feeling jealous, happy, sad, etc.
In the beginning I didn't have the feeling that I was being used, but now I have actually. It's like I'm at the bottom of the list: her friends don't have time? Well, let's talk to Aeon then, since I have nothing better do to. The last days I didn't start a conversation, she all did it herself and yesterday she asked me if we could see each other sometime again. I really hesitated to say no, because of what you guys said, but in the end I said yes again. But my mindset about her definitely changed.
When this all started I first thought this could be a nice relationship, after a while I thought this could be a nice friendship..now, I'm not even sure about that.
Intel i7 6700K, RTX470 Super, Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 09:35 Post subject: |
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Well, it's nothing wrong with spending time with her. Just don't prioritize her in-front of you, if you have something more fun to do (even in the least) then tell her kindly that you can't make it then.
Like Fisk said, saying yes to everything and just always going along reeks of desperation.
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garus
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 10:12 Post subject: |
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snip
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Roach_666
Posts: 1299
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 16:28 Post subject: |
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Morphineus
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 10th Jul 2013 17:19 Post subject: |
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Mm that sounds like sound advice toni xD
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Roach_666
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ragnarus
Posts: 686
Location: Somewhere in Warsaw Pact
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Jul 2013 00:40 Post subject: ... |
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Aeon the thing is it will be hard as fuck to keep in touch with her knowing that you have some kind of feelings for her and she doesnt feel the same.
I know from personal experience friends zone fucking SUCKS when you feel something for that woman. It takes a lot of time to get over it and just keep normal, friendship like relationship and its also possible that it will never work meaning that no matter how hard you try to keep it casual without any feelings you will still have this strange, hurting feeling whenever she talks about her boyfriend, husband or whatever.
Sure you can try to keep in touch with her but if you still will have some kind of romantic feeling towards her and be jelous etc you should just cut the contact to absolute minimum.
OR you could go all in and try seducing her but this would be probably one way ticket, if it wont work then possibilty of real friendship will also be gone.
i5 6600 + Silentiumpc Spartan Pro, Asus H170-plus mobo, HyperX 16 GB DDR4 2133MHz, Asus GTX 970 Strix OC, 1TB Seagate Barracuda, BeQuiet L8 500W, Zalman Z9 case, crap monitor 
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 21:51 Post subject: |
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So...as I told before, she told me last week that she wanted to meet with me. So I said fine, but we didn't pick a date. So after two days, thursday I believe I asked if she wanted to meet on saturday because that was the only day the weather was nice, but she says no, because she already was going to meet her other best friend (not the ex is you followed the story  ). God, I was pissed. You know why? Because she always tells me that she lives day by day and now I'm trying to be a head of her schedule and of course, she already has plans.
So then friday arrives, she tries to chat with me via Facebook, Whatsapp, etc. but I'm not replying to her, so she feels/knows something is wrong. It might sound very childish, but sometimes I just want to push back a bit, so that she know's she can't do anything with me. So, in the evening I was going to the movie with my mate and about 3 hours before she calls me. I pick up and she asks if she can join us for the movie. I said okay, why not. I wasn't completely fine with it, and there was a bloody good reason for that: her other friends were doing something else, so if she couldn't join us for the movie, she was all alone. So what I said in me previous is completely right: " her friends don't have time? Well, let's talk to Aeon then, since I have nothing better do to."
I didn't want to be the bad guy though, so I said yes and after all we had a great evening and she's all nice and very nice dressed up...and yeah I'm all happy again because I had great time. She also told me she wanted to see me the other day again. And so that happened, I helped cleaning her car lol and she was thankful for that and later on we went to the park with a couple of friends from her side and we spent the whole day there, because the weather was very nice.
Yesterday I was going to the beach, so I thought, lets ask her even though I knew for 90% that she would say no, because she probably had other plans. And guess what..her ex came back from vacation and she wanted to meet him. Okay, I respect that, but I fucking knew my time for the coming days was done again and boy am I right. Normally she talks to me everyday and starts the conversation, but last two days...nothing...you take a guess what she's doing.
It's just the two extremes: the best feeling you can have when it's fun and the worst feeling you can have when it's the other way around. I'm not expecting you guys too completely understand it, but I just want to get it all of my chest sometimes
And since a couple of weeks I'm going to the gym and going for a swim every week, so I hope I meet some new women there..
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tonizito
VIP Member
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 22:13 Post subject: |
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| Aeon wrote: | | She also told me she wanted to see me the other day again. And so that happened, I helped cleaning her car lol and she was thankful for that |
Oh aeona...  
You don't have to be the bad guy, you just have to stop kidding yourself and/or make up your mind.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Jul 2013 23:27 Post subject: |
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I am and trying, but it doesn't go very fast.
Intel i7 6700K, RTX470 Super, Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 00:36 Post subject: |
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 06:34 Post subject: |
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| Aeon wrote: | | What's not good? It all just goes so weird imo, or are all women like this ? |
No they are not.
What most people here recommend, limiting further contact with her, would be the right thing to do; but as you can also see, most of us have been in similiar situations already. And none of us knew how to act correctly back then, and doing exactly what other internet-dwellers tell us feels weird too.
I am 26 now, came out of a pretty long relationship 3 years ago and was new to... dating I guess you could call it. Got my mind pretty fucked up once or twice by girls who probably didn't even know they were doing it, but looking back it was quite useful. Now I know the tells, know when someone is just playing, or the other way round, when someone is falling for me.
You wrote you were 20 years old, go make these "mistakes". By the time you are 25 you will have a much better feeling for it and know how to handle these situations.
Also, more directly related to your current situation: I wouldn't actually tell her how you feel and then break off all contact, don't do any of that if you don't feel comfortable with it. It all depends on your character.
My recommendation: Just reply to her messages an hour late and not the instant she messages you, she is not more important than whatever you are doing right now. If you hang out with a mate and she asks you if she can join, no she can't, it's guys night out. And if she wants you to clean her car with her... decline. You can still hang out with her every couple of weeks, but be sure there are more friends around, so that it doesn't feel like a date.
But do whatever you want, just remember that she is poison.
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Stige
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garus
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 09:44 Post subject: |
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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garus
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 10:16 Post subject: |
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spankie
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Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 11:11 Post subject: |
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Aaah, girls girls girls.
1) Gotta stop being the pussy and make your intentions clear somehow. You don't exactly need to tell her "let's fuck", but you can make it clear that's what you want in a little bit of a respectful way. To state the obvious, if you know a female friend of her, tell her you are definitely interested in more than friendship, you know, word will get around...  Gotta abuse gossip stuff...
2) Stop being a backstop guy and doing stuff for her. Washing her car, ok, but was she at least wearing a bikini and helping? I mean, you cant just be a guy that does stuff for her for fun. I mean, you dont do stuff for free for male people, so why would you do it for female people. I mean I've helped my best friends mowing the lawn and painting the shed when bored in the summer time but that came with loads of free beer from the guy's dad or a dip in their swimming pool.
3) Stop seeing ghosts... . You shouldn't take it as an offense if she wants to join you to the movie... Of course she called you because she had nothing to do, else she would not have called. But at least she called you, she could have just done something else, or call someone else... She must like you in some way. Maybe she is waiting for some move of yours?
4) If you apply rule 1, rule 2, and rule 3 you could have some fun. I mean, if she knows you are really interested and you stop giving her free rides and washing her car and giving attention when she only needs it, she will either drop you entirely -> problem solved. Or she will keep contacting you and not 'abuse' you anymore -> problem solved. It ain't that hard...
Or you could go for the other option which is being her little attention bitch and then go home for some 
Let's be honest, all the female friends we have, single or in a couple or either girlfriends of male friends, 'failed projects' or 'future projects'. It's very very very difficult to start from scratch with a female and just go for 'friendship'...
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 20:39 Post subject: |
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Here's my main argument, my other arguments were said by others already:
You say this:
"the best feeling you can have when it's fun and the worst feeling you can have when it's the other way around"
But that is completely wrong, the first part anyway. This is far from the best feeling, very far. Trust me on that. The best feeling you will get, is with someone who is actually in love with you. You have to find that person, but you won't be able to, because this current girl is holding you back.
Thus the only rational, and ultimately the only decision, which will bring you closer to true happiness is breaking ALL contact with her.
You have to gather your strength to do it. All of it. But you will have found new respect for yourself, once you do it.
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Aeon
Posts: 8701
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 21:19 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | Aeon wrote: | 
She knows my intentions and that's just friendship. In the beginning my intention was a relationship, but she told me not get feelings for her, so I pretty much put that feeling away as much as I could and I've accepted that. |
I can tell you that doesn't work. But then again, what is the Internet advice worth? We have to learn from our own mistakes. |
Time will tell if it's was worth it. | spankie wrote: | Aaah, girls girls girls.
1) Gotta stop being the pussy and make your intentions clear somehow. You don't exactly need to tell her "let's fuck", but you can make it clear that's what you want in a little bit of a respectful way. To state the obvious, if you know a female friend of her, tell her you are definitely interested in more than friendship, you know, word will get around... Gotta abuse gossip stuff... |
That won't work unfortunately. I already tried that from the beginning and she told me several times not to get feelings for her, because she doesn't feel the same as I do.
| spankie wrote: |
2) Stop being a backstop guy and doing stuff for her. Washing her car, ok, but was she at least wearing a bikini and helping? I mean, you cant just be a guy that does stuff for her for fun. I mean, you dont do stuff for free for male people, so why would you do it for female people. I mean I've helped my best friends mowing the lawn and painting the shed when bored in the summer time but that came with loads of free beer from the guy's dad or a dip in their swimming pool. |
She was wearing something fancy yeah and she was helping very good. She asked me if I wanted to help...should I have said no then? Not really nice is it
| spankie wrote: |
3) Stop seeing ghosts... . You shouldn't take it as an offense if she wants to join you to the movie... Of course she called you because she had nothing to do, else she would not have called. But at least she called you, she could have just done something else, or call someone else... She must like you in some way. Maybe she is waiting for some move of yours? |
Nah, it was just that she didn't have anything better to do.
| spankie wrote: |
4) If you apply rule 1, rule 2, and rule 3 you could have some fun. I mean, if she knows you are really interested and you stop giving her free rides and washing her car and giving attention when she only needs it, she will either drop you entirely -> problem solved. Or she will keep contacting you and not 'abuse' you anymore -> problem solved. It ain't that hard..
Or you could go for the other option which is being her little attention bitch and then go home for some
Let's be honest, all the female friends we have, single or in a couple or either girlfriends of male friends, 'failed projects' or 'future projects'. It's very very very difficult to start from scratch with a female and just go for 'friendship'... |
| Radicalus wrote: | Here's my main argument, my other arguments were said by others already:
You say this:
"the best feeling you can have when it's fun and the worst feeling you can have when it's the other way around"
But that is completely wrong, the first part anyway. This is far from the best feeling, very far. Trust me on that. The best feeling you will get, is with someone who is actually in love with you. You have to find that person, but you won't be able to, because this current girl is holding you back.
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True I guess...
| Radicalus wrote: |
Thus the only rational, and ultimately the only decision, which will bring you closer to true happiness is breaking ALL contact with her.
You have to gather your strength to do it. All of it. But you will have found new respect for yourself, once you do it. |
I think I have enough strength to drop her, when I found someone else.
I even think she would drop me, because of some reason and because she's holding off now, or doesn't have time for me.
Intel i7 6700K, RTX470 Super, Kingston HyperX Fury 32GB
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| Posted: Tue, 16th Jul 2013 22:47 Post subject: |
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There are many different feelings in this world, the first time you can shut down contact with someone, who ultimately uses you to boost her ego (which this girl does, intentional or not ...), is a great feeling. You are nobody's toy. You will fill proud for pulling it off, it is hard, I know.
You won't feel motivated to find other women, until you drop this one, that is why your argument is wrong (the one about having str, when you found someone new - it will not come to that easily).
Thing is, you think you feel something deep now, but you aren't. When you will actually have a loving girlfriend, now that will be deep. I was 24 or 25, when it happened to me. Before that, I had many women, but the feeling I got with my GF at that time (who still is my GF) was beyond comparison.
You have to risk it and let her go, it will pay off tenfold.
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ragnarus
Posts: 686
Location: Somewhere in Warsaw Pact
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| Posted: Wed, 17th Jul 2013 09:17 Post subject: |
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| Aeon wrote: |
I think I have enough strength to drop her, when I found someone else.
I even think she would drop me, because of some reason and because she's holding off now, or doesn't have time for me. |
Yeah i wouldn't go for that. Its much harder to find someone else when you're obsessing about a particular girl.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65105
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 20th Jul 2013 01:45 Post subject: |
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So many great advices in this thread..basically everything has been said already . Stay strong my Aeona and trust me, experience is the medicine that you need in order to cope with these feelings and bad experiences, finally gaining access to your infallible Advanced Horn skills.
It's hard, but sometimes you just have to let it go, forget and move on. We are like hungry predators in search for the prey, and when the prey is either too fast or unreachable it's not that we can starve  . We simply need to change our target. Start frequenting new places (the gym that you mentioned for example is a nice start), and your mind will get busy again with good thoughts and infinite possibilities. xD Besides, failures are required to get better!
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