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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 03:49 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: | So in order for PC to be saved...
... it has to turn into a console
 Durrsolitis |
Nice trolling but that's not what I said.
Both Steam Machines and SteamOS are open platforms that can be customized, modified, have content for them developed and so on by anyone in the world.
That's like exactly the opposite of a console, so, 6/10, not your best attempt. |
That's exactly what you said. Support couch & tv on PC or grim periods are acoming ... 
Who exactly will mod? Someone who already mods his PC and doesn't need this? Or a console moron who wants to turn off brain and play call a dooty?  |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 64934
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 03:59 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | ixigia wrote: | I for one am very sceptical about this, especially because of the idea of playing "comfy" with friends which surely doesn't bode well when it comes to supporting *proper* games, I mean the good  ones that aren't consolish onebutton-awesome-based ports or just some simplistic silly party stuff.
I hope Gaben can do the miracle here like he did with Steam, but honestly as a PC gamer I see this as an unnecessary move whose only aim is to fragment the user base even more and make PC gaming even more accessible than it actually is, which is a cancerous thought.
Consoles that are becoming PCs and PCs that are becoming consoles, dafuq is going on! I need an explanation  |
Because the 2005-2007 era of PC gaming was looking like it had a bright future ahead of it  (Hint: it wasn't).
Steam and cheap hardware in the years that followed absolutely made the platform more popular and now it's a much better platform as well.
If you want to go back to the dark ages of 2005-2007 as the platform loses popularity when the nextgen consoles hit, be my guest.
(I am not commenting on whether this will successfully make the PC more popular, only that that would be a good thing.) |
At the cost of sounding like a dirty elitist, from how I see it, too much popularity is a dangerous aspect that should be contained, not so strongly encouraged.
Our games already got dumbified a lot with this generation of consoles, and instead of providing something different and with more complexity we decide here to "invade" their world with all the gamepad-friendly attidude and the need to make everything accessible to everyone.
It's free and open? fine, I appreciate that, but the PC that I like ain't a family thing or a social multi-tool, it's something intimate that I enjoy playing alone, with the precision of a mouse, away from the hurly burly of a Big Picture Party with grandmas happily waving their biometric dildos.
I hope I'm terribly wrong though.  |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 04:39 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:58; edited 1 time in total
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 64934
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 04:45 Post subject: |
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I wasn't expecting that |
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 05:06 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |  |
Confirmed. And it's consoles exclusive!  |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 05:10 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:58; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 05:13 Post subject: |
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What's the difference?
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 08:18 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: |
Sooooo... like.... a PC then....? That's my point. You can't reinvent the wheel by making another wheel, only this time making it a completely different shape. I like the idea of a Steambox, but this push for Linux - a market that barely even exists in the first place, whilst still keeping the same things that annoy developers/publishers in the first place (ie, the open platform with infinite hardware combinations) - reminds me of that little ginger kid riding the trike with a square wheel |
It's hard to say what the publisher impact will be, but I don't think it's outlandish to propose two things:
1) This could be what's needed to actually create a stable PC experience. Much like the Nintendo Seal of Quality guaranteed a cartridge would work on a Nintendo machine, there could be a Certified on Steam Machine label. Basic Low/Medium/High Steam Machines being the Minimum/Recommended specs of PC games, and the Steam Machines being developer test-beds, so that games are guaranteed to work on them. Living-Room gamers - that is, families where either both parents have been working, or one has been working, the other looking after the kids - are not going to suffer the poorly optimized and in some cases broken releases that plague PC gaming.
2) DRM will change in a major way. Steamworks games will work out-the-box (obviously). SecuRom, though? What mum or dad is going to want to faff with activating or deauthorising games? No-one is going to accept TAGES screwing over their shiny new Steam Machine. UPlay has shown the way forward for third-party DRM on Steam - a streamlined automated registration experience, that essentially just helps build the Ubisoft brand. But even so, I think there'll be a polarisation between DRM-less games, and Steamworks.
I think both of these things are Good Things.
As an aside, it'll be interesting to see if more EA games start popping up on Steam now, and whether they'll support Linux dev at all.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:04 Post subject: |
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So is this SteamBox going to be modular design then - with upgrades such as video cards and CPU's being offered as a standard 'plug and play' thing?
I can almost hear developers weeping with joy, knowing that Steam is probably the widest used gaming platform on the PC, and so is the most likely way to get their warez available with the most minimal effort required to ensure compatibility, as there will only be a few standard configurations for them to have to work with.
Maybe the days of buying a new video card are numbered - SteamBox upgrades wouldn't need Windows compatible drivers, so no certification needed, less red tape etc etc.
Could this be the end of PC's, Microsoft and basements as we know it? 
(disclaimer: I am half asleep, it is 8am and I slept poorly, so this post may not sense it make.)
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:25 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Something tells me the switch to Linux isn't the magic bullet the platform needs. What the platform NEEDS is less publisher meddling in development affairs and less restricting games to console only. That's what it needs. |
Requoting for truth.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9416
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:26 Post subject: |
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Still there is more questions than answers:
How big the steam machine will be?
Will it have a custom case, psu?
Gaming SFF cases are still fucking large and the smallest case I have in work that can have normal sized graphic card is 323x140x310 cm.
What with its life expectancy and what goes with it upgrades? Will AMD or Intel stick with one socket type for longer than 2 years?
How much I would be able to upgrade? And will it goes with the console curse of holding back developers due to hardware limits.
It's a cool concept. But will it win over consoles? It would has to have some pretty awesome games that can be played with controler. For devs it would have to be more closed specification without thousands of different configs that will spawn issues because the Steam Machine from Acer uses different graphic card than the one from MSI.
But for people who already own a gaming PC I think the steam machines are pretty meh at the moment.
sar·casm | \ ˈsär-ˌka-zəm \
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b: the use or language of sarcasm
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:34 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | consolitis wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: | So in order for PC to be saved...
... it has to turn into a console
Durrsolitis |
Nice trolling but that's not what I said.
Both Steam Machines and SteamOS are open platforms that can be customized, modified, have content for them developed and so on by anyone in the world.
That's like exactly the opposite of a console, so, 6/10, not your best attempt. |
That's exactly what you said. Support couch & tv on PC or grim periods are acoming ...
Who exactly will mod? Someone who already mods his PC and doesn't need this? Or a console moron who wants to turn off brain and play call a dooty? |
No I didn't say that.
I know IRL PC gamers who don't "mod" their software/hardware/games etc go ahead and tell them "you are not a PC gamer because like.. I say so!".
PC gaming is all about giving you CHOICE. You don't have to be a hacker to play a game, but you can if you want. You don't have to play with a gamepad but you can if you want. etc
On consoles choice doesn't exist. Go on and play with a mouse and keyboard or a Wii controller on a 360, oh wait, you can't. Change your OS to play your favorite tux game, nope not possible. Develop a 2D adventure which is about a cop investigating rape cases, nope MSony will likely not publish it.
Now, an increasingly rising number of people want to game on their HDTVs in the living room and that's often a bit easier or in terms of hardware more elegant to do with the consoles. Even on the software side, we have devs like BioWare that didn't include gamepad support in none of the 3 Mass Effects. Why is that since their games are on the 360? Lazyyyyy. Or when game devs use a launcher for the graphics settings (that needs a mouse to be navigated) instead of in game options (because the console menus didn't have graphics options)? That's annoying and bad design even if you play with mouse and keyboard on your monitor.
Having a "certified" list of gamepad games (which Steam already has but currently it's a bit meaningless) can push multiplatform developers to think twice before they drop the support mysteriously from their games (2K's Elizabeth: "For BioShock 2 PC we concentrated on the mouse and keyboard controls so we had to drop the gamepad controls." What the hell. How does that make any sense??).
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:46 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | | Something tells me the switch to Linux isn't the magic bullet the platform needs. What the platform NEEDS is less publisher meddling in development affairs and less restricting games to console only. That's what it needs. |
Requoting for truth. |
The PC platform thanks to its openness has even that, it's called Kickstarter. 
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:50 Post subject: |
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| VonMisk wrote: | Still there is more questions than answers:
How big the steam machine will be?
Will it have a custom case, psu?
Gaming SFF cases are still fucking large and the smallest case I have in work that can have normal sized graphic card is 323x140x310 cm.
What with its life expectancy and what goes with it upgrades? Will AMD or Intel stick with one socket type for longer than 2 years?
How much I would be able to upgrade? And will it goes with the console curse of holding back developers due to hardware limits.
It's a cool concept. But will it win over consoles? It would has to have some pretty awesome games that can be played with controler. For devs it would have to be more closed specification without thousands of different configs that will spawn issues because the Steam Machine from Acer uses different graphic card than the one from MSI.
But for people who already own a gaming PC I think the steam machines are pretty meh at the moment. |
| Quote: | | The specific machine we're testing is designed for users who want the most control possible over their hardware. Other boxes will optimize for size, price, quietness, or other factors. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:50 Post subject: |
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Well as far as I understand every PC is a potential SteamBox. You just need to install SteamOS.
It's a PC. Period. And why Valve is doing it? Look at Microsoft and Windows 8. They got Windows store now (main and almost only way to install Modern UI apps!). No installing desktop Apps in Windows RT. There slowly going for closeness in Windows! Thats how their destination looks now. It's absolutely terrible for the industry. So this is well the only reasonable thing to do - compete them in that department with something completely different.
And respect for Valve for doing it. Even if SteamOS and StemBoxes don't get popular, they still might be enough to reverse MS long term strategy.
Competition never did any harm to any market.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 09:56 Post subject: |
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Too bad we get the shitty filesystem linux has :/
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VonMisk
Posts: 9416
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:02 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | VonMisk wrote: | Still there is more questions than answers:
How big the steam machine will be?
Will it have a custom case, psu?
Gaming SFF cases are still fucking large and the smallest case I have in work that can have normal sized graphic card is 323x140x310 cm.
What with its life expectancy and what goes with it upgrades? Will AMD or Intel stick with one socket type for longer than 2 years?
How much I would be able to upgrade? And will it goes with the console curse of holding back developers due to hardware limits.
It's a cool concept. But will it win over consoles? It would has to have some pretty awesome games that can be played with controler. For devs it would have to be more closed specification without thousands of different configs that will spawn issues because the Steam Machine from Acer uses different graphic card than the one from MSI.
But for people who already own a gaming PC I think the steam machines are pretty meh at the moment. |
| Quote: | | The specific machine we're testing is designed for users who want the most control possible over their hardware. Other boxes will optimize for size, price, quietness, or other factors. |
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Still it gives no information except that it will be a PC with dedicated OS. I would wish for some more information like will it have one type/manufacturer of motherboard for all types of SteamBoxes. How moddable it will be i.g. everything except the CPU/motherboard.
If it will be optimized for price, so a low performance machine, will it somehow block the user from buying games they won't be able to run?
They just confirmed what everybody new - that there will be some kind of SteamBox.
I mean by it that I'm a little bit disappointed by this reveal.
Last edited by VonMisk on Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:06; edited 1 time in total
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Saner
Posts: 6871
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:03 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Too bad we get the shitty filesystem linux has :/ |
What's wrong with the linux file system ?(I presume you mean ext3 / 4)
I have never had a problem with it.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:03 Post subject: |
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maybe not everything is set in stone yet.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:05 Post subject: |
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| Saner wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | Too bad we get the shitty filesystem linux has :/ |
What's wrong with the linux file system ?(I presume you mean ext3 / 4)
I have never had a problem with it. |
I find it really messy and clunky to browse around and doing stuff on Linux. Of course that will change when i use it for a while, but i'd still prefer not having to.
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:05 Post subject: |
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@VonMisk:
For those that haven't been following the news it's new to them that there will be several Steam Machines, not just Valve's.
For those that have been following the news about it, I agree they didn't exactly learn something new about it.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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Saner
Posts: 6871
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:08 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Saner wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | Too bad we get the shitty filesystem linux has :/ |
What's wrong with the linux file system ?(I presume you mean ext3 / 4)
I have never had a problem with it. |
I find it really messy and clunky to browse around and doing stuff on Linux. Of course that will change when i use it for a while, but i'd still prefer not having to. |
Oh shit, thats it, cancel the steambox Valve, SteamWolf cant type cd ~/
Joking aside I dont see how anyone can moan about the way linux is set out at a file system level, but granted maybe thats because I use it daily.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:18 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Saner wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | Too bad we get the shitty filesystem linux has :/ |
What's wrong with the linux file system ?(I presume you mean ext3 / 4)
I have never had a problem with it. |
I find it really messy and clunky to browse around and doing stuff on Linux. Of course that will change when i use it for a while, but i'd still prefer not having to. |
  
Sorry, but out of ALL the arguments one can throw against Linux, this is the biggest bullshit ever.
#1: the "filesystem" is COMPLETELY transparent to you. I can let you browse EXT3/EXT4/HFS+/NTFS/FAT32/exFAT and you won't give a single shit (at least until you encounter 4GB+ files, problem FAT32?  ).
#2: what you're likely referring to is what Saner is joking about, which is via the terminal. That's equivalent to using terminal on OS X or command prompt on Windows. And funnily enough, all three are very similar. "dir" works on Windows and Linux, "ls" on Linux and OS X. "cd" works on all of them. They all have "mkdir".
#3: if you're referring to the UI, that's just that, the UI. OS X's Finder is as clunky as Nautilus (most common file browser among Linux distributions), but they all take about 5 minutes to get used to and you won't care anymore.
#4: if you're referring to permissions: all three OS's have that. All three also default to public reading; Windows additionally applies public writing to anything outside your home folder. And on all three you can set different defaults should you wish to. |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:24 Post subject: |
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Well, i don't like using the terminal at all, and i don't like the UI. All in all, for a common user as me Linux is shit and for the time being there is absolutely no reason to rid myself of Windows 7.
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Saner
Posts: 6871
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:27 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Linux is shit . |
  
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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| Posted: Thu, 26th Sep 2013 10:28 Post subject: |
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Linux is NOT shit, it's just not good for my usage. I hope you were joking with that post.
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