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 Posted: Wed, 14th Aug 2013 16:26 Post subject: |
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wtf where did i claim 1.9 engine is small and crappy? by crappy engines i meant 1.2 in cars like VW Polo and the likes.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 14th Aug 2013 17:56 Post subject: |
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I think the issue is arising from a conflict of what makes the car worthy of praise between you and the guy you are arguing with.
You see it as the quality of the car itself, not its general social status it brings. they see it as the status that looking at it brings, vs the cars quality. He wants a car that cant be mistaken for its cheap twin..one that just looking at it says 'this was expensive' without the people looking needing the knowledge in cars to tell if its the cheap or high powered model.
So i dont think its ignorance on their part for not respecting your cars (ignorance on what it has in it maybe, but thats 2nd tier on their list of what makes it a 'good car').
SO I think its a clash of "IT doesn't look like an expensive car" vs "its better than your expensive car mechanically" on priorities of the people looking at the car.
Like people that body kit fieros into lamborghini's..They are after the initial awe of what people see, not what it can do. Give them a 400HP mitsubishi, or a 100hp bodykit lambro, they will take the lambro for the appearance of 'expensive'.
For people after status, they want a car that every layman 'knows' what it is by association of the make of the car.
People after performance usually need people that are in the know of the differences between similar models of the same car to appreciate it. And no amount of arguing will make your 'well it looks like the cheaper model' friends agree..since its easy to have passer bys confuse it with the cheaper one, they spent the money on the car, they want people looking to know without a doubt it was expensive..
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Wed, 14th Aug 2013 18:19 Post subject: |
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I believe you are right, but not quite.
Yes they look for a broken imo social status - the car must be big - the bigger the more expensive it is. So they go and buy a big sedan with the smallest available engine - 1992 BMW 520 or a 1995 Mercedes 220 for around 2-4k eur and then they go and feel badass about themselves.. even though they can't pay for quality repairs on the car or more than 1-2 big trips a year in gas, constantly bitch about how parts are too expensive, put in Chinese parts that break every year and how much they burn gas  where does this social pressure come from?
My whole country is filled with the likes of those..
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Sep 2013 13:06 Post subject: |
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Since this is a thread about tiny, cute cars, I'll ask my question here. I'm in the market for a small, economic car. I'm driving a 1996 Opel Astra for a year now, it's driving me nuts. I bought it for 500 euros, it was neat but the 1.6 engine was at 200K (now it's 210K). I thought "it's cheap so fuck it", but it goes 9KM barely on 1 liter and the engine sounds like it's at the verge of exploding whenever I hit 130/140 Km/h (~4K rpm that is). Since my family and friends only know about BMW/Merc/Audi (me spending 10K on a car  ), I thought I'll ask here.
Budget is 4000 euros, The car has to be a four door hatchback. Main points are fuel consumption, comfort and engine noise. I don't race, I don't need boomboom music/speakers and I don't have to go from zero to 100 in 1.2578 seconds. So I want a sensible car which doesn't drink fuel like it's cheap water. Brand is irrelevant, as long as it's sturdy and spare parts are priced normally. Any advice?
I'm in the Netherlands btw.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Sep 2013 13:15 Post subject: |
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Clio or 206 with a 1.6L-16v engine, should be able to find plenty from around 2006 or so with around 100k on them within your budget. If you're lucky, you might find an older Polo, but that's doubtful.
Stay away from Fiestas. The 1.6 in that is terrible.
The 1.6's for the two I mentioned are also more economic than their 1.4 siblings; the 1.6-16v's are in fact the most economic ones for those cars. Even with my sometimes-slightly-heavy-right-foot, my 206 did 1:16 without a problem, the 1.6 does a bit better and it's got a lot more 'oomph' in it.
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Sep 2013 13:20 Post subject: |
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| rgb#000 wrote: | | wtf where did i claim 1.9 engine is small and crappy? by crappy engines i meant 1.2 in cars like VW Polo and the likes. |
1.9 is crappy!
Anything less than 8 cylinders is crappy!!111
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Sep 2013 19:37 Post subject: |
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206 series is very cheap it seems, 2001-2003 goes for 2-3k euros. I'll look into that.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Sep 2013 21:20 Post subject: |
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Make sure to get the 2002+ model though, in Q3'01 they renewed the entire internal cabling (they moved to a CANBUS).
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Invasor
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Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 06:31 Post subject: |
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You sure the canbus is a good thing? Maybe it was a local thing, but this peugeot canbus system was a mess here (I had a 2003 206; the car was made in brazil), LOTS of problems, flashing lights, horn wouldnt work, the switch for the turn signal had issues, etc...
The engine (1.6 16v) was pretty good though. I'd rather buy a Clio, but only if you're not too tall, I think 1.80m+ drivers feel a bit cramped in it because the seat is too high.
And if you want something that really goes forever with cheap maintenance look for a honda or toyota...
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 09:17 Post subject: |
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| Invasor wrote: | | You sure the canbus is a good thing? Maybe it was a local thing, but this peugeot canbus system was a mess here (I had a 2003 206; the car was made in brazil), LOTS of problems, flashing lights, horn wouldnt work, the switch for the turn signal had issues, etc... |
The Brazilian (well, they're for all of the South American market) are slightly different cars. The engines are different (your 1.6 if I'm not mistaken can run off alternate fuels as well, ours doesn't like that ) and they're assembled there too.
The CAN bus here isn't perfect either (CAN buses rarely are), but none of the issues you describe. The issues here are mostly issues with headlights (installing Xenon requires some trickery) and aftermarket stereos. That last one isn't exclusive to the CAN bus though, that's just because they're French and like to mix things up; in my pre-CAN 206 the permanent and ignition +12v were swapped for example. That's the red + yellow wire; red is meant to be permanent +12v for the stereo's memory, yellow is +12v when the power is on, Peugeot swapped them ... because 
| Quote: | | The engine (1.6 16v) was pretty good though. I'd rather buy a Clio, but only if you're not too tall, I think 1.80m+ drivers feel a bit cramped in it because the seat is too high. |
I personally just don't like the old Clio's looks
I've always liked the 206, even though I know many don't. And it just drives remarkably well, even with the little engine I had (1.4-8v ) I thoroughly enjoyed it.
It's also very cheap in maintenance; Peugeot use standard parts from Bosch for all but their "sport" versions (GTI + RC here in NL). I replaced my entire exhaust system for practically nothing - had to because the previous owner did some questionable welding on it, he must've had a custom exhaust before he sold it. They're not far off Japanese cars in that regard. And the car itself, CAN bus aside, is still very traditional mechanically, which makes it easy to fix, plenty of room to work on anything (not that I think Mister_s is the kind of guy who would, are you Mister_s?). |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 16:00 Post subject: |
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fuck yeah! 4x4, excellent offroad and 0/100 
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 17:42 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | And the car itself, CAN bus aside, is still very traditional mechanically, which makes it easy to fix, plenty of room to work on anything (not that I think Mister_s is the kind of guy who would, are you Mister_s?). |
I'll fix my own car if possible (no special screws, no fancy electrical system etc.), but I'll not tinker with/pimp my car if that's what you mean.
What can I expect powerwise from the upgrade to a 2003 206 for example. I know I can just compare the HP given by the manufacturers, but I assume dozens of horses died along the way with my Opel Astra.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 18:59 Post subject: |
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Well what models Astra and 206 are you looking at specifically?
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Invasor
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Location: On the road
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:01 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Invasor wrote: | | You sure the canbus is a good thing? Maybe it was a local thing, but this peugeot canbus system was a mess here (I had a 2003 206; the car was made in brazil), LOTS of problems, flashing lights, horn wouldnt work, the switch for the turn signal had issues, etc... |
The Brazilian (well, they're for all of the South American market) are slightly different cars. The engines are different (your 1.6 if I'm not mistaken can run off alternate fuels as well, ours doesn't like that ) and they're assembled there too. |
It's a bit different indeed, but at the time it was the same engine (no flex fuel system for ethanol) and most parts were still imported from Europe. Aside from a few electrical problems related to the canbus (I didn't have all the ones I mentioned though), I had a front suspension problem (can't remember what it was, but I have to say I did some offroad rallying with that car ) and a lot of interior noises (squeaks and rattles). I really did like that car though.
I'm pretty sure the 1.6 16v will be faster than the old astra, since the 206 is pretty light. You just have to rev it higher, but the engine is smooth.
I don't like the clio either, but I remember its stability being better, and it was more comfortable also (except for the seat being too high for me).
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:06 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Well what models Astra and 206 are you looking at specifically? |
I meant 206 1.6 2003/4 compared to my 1995 1.6 Astra. Should I expect a good boost in acceleration?
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:20 Post subject: |
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| Invasor wrote: | | It's a bit different indeed, but at the time it was the same engine (no flex fuel system for ethanol) and most parts were still imported from Europe. Aside from a few electrical problems related to the canbus (I didn't have all the ones I mentioned though), I had a front suspension problem (can't remember what it was, but I have to say I did some offroad rallying with that car ) and a lot of interior noises (squeaks and rattles). I really did like that car though. |
Well, the interior will always rattle a bit in any French car
Only suspension problem I had was my left front breaker just being corroded, but by then the car was 11 years old so 
| Quote: | | I'm pretty sure the 1.6 16v will be faster than the old astra, since the 206 is pretty light. You just have to rev it higher, but the engine is smooth. |
Again, French thing. French engines like higher revs, same with Renault's engines. Torque doesn't kick in until 3500 RPM
| Quote: | | I don't like the clio either, but I remember its stability being better, and it was more comfortable also (except for the seat being too high for me). |
Smoother ride, but less stable. My cousin had one, he'd lose grip faster than I did (yes, you can lose grip with a 1.4-8v  ).
| Mister_s wrote: | | Werelds wrote: | | Well what models Astra and 206 are you looking at specifically? |
I meant 206 1.6 2003/4 compared to my 1995 1.6 Astra. Should I expect a good boost in acceleration? |
Hell yes. The power to weight ratio is higher, as is the torque. Other than that it'll have slightly wider tyres probably, which'll give you a bit more grip. |
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Stige
Posts: 3544
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:30 Post subject: |
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I'd rather go to a good vacation instead of spending anything more than 3-4K for a car. A big car in NL is also ridiculous imo since the monthly costs are too high and pretty much everywhere is a 30 zone. I'd really like a car that can hit 180 without a sweat, but where would I use those speeds in my country?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:35 Post subject: |
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No problem
Should've done this about a year ago though, my cousin would've had his 1.6-16v for sale 
Just quickly looked up the specs for the two on Autoweek to confirm what I said above, this is comparing a '95 1.6i-16v Astra (hatch) to '03 206 1.6-16v, both 4 doors (or 5 doors as we say here in NL ):
- Power: 100 HP vs 110
- Torque: 135 Nm vs 147
- Weight: 1045 Kg vs 1002
- Top speed: 190 vs 198
- Acceleration (0-100): 11.5 vs 9.4
Standard tyres on the Astra are actually slightly wider, Opel usually stick tiny narrow tyres on their cars
As for your most important point, consumption: for the Astra the *claimed* consumption is 9.2/15.9/12.5 Km/L. For the 206 that's 11.6/19.6/15.6. First = bebouwde kom, second = buiten bebouwde kom, third = gemiddeld. That average is actually below reality for the 206, assuming you don't drive around at 4500 RPM all the time
@ Stige: shut up already
We know you like big, old cars with large engines but not everyone does.
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deelix
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Stige
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Location: Finland
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:55 Post subject: |
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| Stige wrote: | | And it's not like something like 523/528 is expensive to drive etc nor do they have a big engine, a good middle ground really. |
Except that here they are. They're some of the least economic cars you can find - with our fuel prices, that sucks (they're even worse than his Astra right now). Parts for them are expensive.
And the one thing we get fucked over on here are the road taxes. A 523 or 528 will set you back close to 200 EUR every 3 months in road taxes alone. A 206 is not even half that, probably about 85 EUR.
Edit: oh, and as far as MB goes, fuck those. They're way more expensive if something breaks, just as un-economic (shit consumption, high taxes) and yet way more expensive to buy; at least with BMW you can find them on a budget with a decent engine, best you'll find in a Merc is going to be shit like a C 180, which is just horrible. |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:57 Post subject: |
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peugeot 106 gti fo life!
| Quote: | | PC awesome button = Uninstall! |
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deelix
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 19:58 Post subject: |
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Stige
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Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Sep 2013 20:25 Post subject: |
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deelix
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