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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14507
Location: Poland. New York.
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 Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 20:31 Post subject: |
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Didn't you guys had exact same conversation in Tomb Raider thread?
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 21:13 Post subject: |
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| Przepraszam wrote: | | Didn't you guys had exact same conversation in Tomb Raider thread? |
Durrfr is failing to convince reasonable people that PS4 is better than Mac so he attempts his silly crusade here as well.  |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 21:14 Post subject: |
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He also fails to comprehend  that just because a console port is shit does not mean the PS4 is any good.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 21:16 Post subject: |
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Watch_Dogs LIVE Broadcast from Ubisoft Montreal
http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft
The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t always spoil the good things and make them unimportant.
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 21:20 Post subject: |
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Dat lower half of the last page.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:04 Post subject: |
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I'm not seeing anything? Or is it over already?
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:04 Post subject: |
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@Cyclonefr
You don't seem to understand that when we (or at least some of us) say that consoles are holding PC gaming back it's because once the hardware is there for the consoles they stay there. Until the next batch of consoles come out with new hardware.
Not only that it's also the control-scheme that's very limited due to it being a gamepad and not a keybaord and mouse (which gives you more options).
Not only that but then the games that are ported directly from consoles are usually so poorly done (fuck the early 360/ps3 days were a fucking hellhole) and un-optimized that you would need a beast to run some of the games and not because they are so demanding but because well, they just didn't do a very good job at it.
And also, you're comparing your iMac to a PS4 is brilliant. I'm wondering if you're trying to play the games on using os10.x or Windows and if it's apples OS then lols...
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:44 Post subject: |
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Guys, what did they do?
Switch graphics engine?
The early videos were MUCH MUCH BETTER...
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:48 Post subject: |
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| Decca77 wrote: | Guys, what did they do?
Switch graphics engine?
The early videos were MUCH MUCH BETTER... |
They realized that the engine they had was too next gen for next gen consoles (they showed it on a then current gen PC ), so they took the PS360 engine and added some reflection shaders to make it look more next gen. |
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 22:50 Post subject: |
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Yeah PS4 will hold back PC games one day, but now ? Nope ! The PS4 hardware is good enough to have great looking games and if some games look like shit on PC, it's not because of the PS4. Maybe in 5 years or earlier then you can say the same.
Even though, this is not 100% correct : compare Tomb Raider on PC vs PS360, the PC version while not being miles better looking, has some new effects here and there, better lightning, TressFX, Tesselation, better shadows, better textures and obviously higher resolution. While these effects aren't changing the game from ground-up, they are obviously eating a lot of GPU power, even minor as they can be, and PS360 isn't the reason at all (TressFX being the most demanding effect in this game obviously).
And about my iMac : since AC4 doesn't exist on OS X, obviously I m talking about the Windows version. I don't think I've ever found a game perform better on OS X than Windows sadly. That being said, since I prefer to use OS X than Windows, when a game performs good enough on OS X then I'd rather play the OS X version.
For example, Dota 2 runs at 60fps+ either way on both OS in 1440p. On the other hand, Tomb Raider on OS X perform worse than Windows (and doesn't even have TressFX because of AMD not porting their API to OS X), although it's really playable but the framerate is all over the place : goes from 60fps to 20fps depending of the scene, which isn't that bad on the Windows version of the game. Same goes for Bioshock Infinite, performs a ton better on Windows : it even runs 50-60fps in 1440p fully maxed (Ultra) on my "shitty iMac" which is quite amazing to be honest : the game looks gorgeous on the 27" at 1440p.
So please, allow me to be pissed off that my "shitty iMac" can barely achieve 30fps in AC4 fully maxed + 1440p --> I'd rather play the PS4 version with a static 30fps rather than 40fps when loojking at the sky and 20fps when looking at a complicated scene and maybe a few "god rays" toned down... (I can achieve 60fps in 1080p with some effects off but then it looks A LOT worse than the PS4 version [which is ironically in 1080p too and on a 32" TV!] and it's not even constant 60fps anyway). And I don't think AC4 looks any better than Bioshock or Tomb Raider to be honest, even if it's free romaing : the face models look really shitty, even fully maxed...
For some reason that you are prolly gonna laugh at (i'm not pulling a KC here), I can tell you usually console games look better than their PC counterpart running at the very same resolution : Tomb Raider on PC in 1280x720 (+FXAA too!) looks terrible resolution wise compared to the PS3 version which runs at 720p.
The same goes with AC4 on PS4 which runs at 1080p, it looks less disgusting than the PC version in 1080p + FXAA on the 27". Whatever vaseline they apply on console games look nicer than FXAA I enable on PC games. At least to my eyes... I thought it was the distance from the TV but it's not : I tried to look real close to these games on my TV and the jaggies were less visible than what 720p or 1080p should look like on PC.
| Prefetian wrote: | @Cyclonefr
You don't seem to understand that when we (or at least some of us) say that consoles are holding PC gaming back it's because once the hardware is there for the consoles they stay there. Until the next batch of consoles come out with new hardware.
Not only that it's also the control-scheme that's very limited due to it being a gamepad and not a keybaord and mouse (which gives you more options).
Not only that but then the games that are ported directly from consoles are usually so poorly done (fuck the early 360/ps3 days were a fucking hellhole) and un-optimized that you would need a beast to run some of the games and not because they are so demanding but because well, they just didn't do a very good job at it.
And also, you're comparing your iMac to a PS4 is brilliant. I'm wondering if you're trying to play the games on using os10.x or Windows and if it's apples OS then lols... |
Last edited by cyclonefr on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:03; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:01 Post subject: |
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I think one specific console or another is very low on the list of things holding back gaming evolution.
I just hope they are able to make the game still interesting after one has seen all the little mini-games and tricks.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:03 Post subject: |
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@ cyclonefr
You seem to be under the impression as PC's can't do better than consoles.
You're a console creators wet dream, because you can't see past your own nose (hello paid DLC's and microtransactions).
My point is that if the main focus for gaming would have been PC (as it was pre-360/PS3) games pushed ther limits when it comes to graphics and game (well, somewhat gameplay). But thanks to consoles being the main focus they ARE holding PC gaming back, waaaay back.
You think that PS4/Xbax1 graphics are ace? Well, they can barely push 1080p while PC gaming is already starting on 4k. And before you say "lols, who needs 4k gaming" remember that was said about 720/1080p for gaming as well.
The fact is that console gaming _IS_ holding PC gaming back (Star Citizen is a prime example of that) and maybe even gaming as a whole.
| Mister_s wrote: | | I think one specific console or another is very low on the list of things holding back gaming evolution.. |
Yeah, I mean console gaming as a whole not just from one manufacturer.
PS
All that said I have to add that I'm now used to it and barely care about it. And this game still might be fun even though it's not what it could have been, at least I hope so.
Last edited by Mr.Tinkles on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:13; edited 1 time in total
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65091
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:10 Post subject: |
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Ubi trying to cover up the obvious with unreal excuses and desperately attempting to justify the whole colossal fuckup, while treating PC gamers like retards is almost more pathetic than the failure itself
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:12 Post subject: |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51432
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:14 Post subject: |
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| cyclonefr wrote: | | For some reason that you are prolly gonna laugh at (i'm not pulling a KC here), I can tell you usually console games look better than their PC counterpart running at the very same resolution : Tomb Raider on PC in 1280x720 (+FXAA too!) looks terrible resolution wise compared to the PS3 version which runs at 720p. |
...what? 
No really, what exactly does this mean?
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:15 Post subject: |
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Yeah PC push 4K at 10fps, yay... Who cares ? We will speak about that when the hardware to achieve 4K at 30fps then 60fps will be much cheaper.
My only "living room" consoles before PS360 were PS2, Dreamcast, SNES and NES. I had a PC all along after the SNES was out. I'm a PC gamer for ages, well before PS360 were out.
And you telling me that PC games were amazing looking before PS360 is quite a joke to be honest. I remember the day I bought the Dreamcast, I was like : why the hell can't a game look as good as Crazy Taxi, Virtua Tennis, or Shenmue on PC ? Yes, nowadays these games look like shit, but back then I remember being amazed by face models in Virtua Tennis (which look TERRIBLE nowadays).
I remember also playing Max Payne 2 on PC fully maxed, thought it was looking good but not groundbreaking, surely not looking any better than what I'm seeing on PS4 nowadays, and it was a PC exclusive for quite some time (was ported on PS2/XBOX later on, but heavily downgraded). Same thing for Max Payne 1. Same thing for James BOnd Nightfire which looked TERRIBLE on PC vs console. Should I go on ? I barely remember any PC exclusive being a ground breaking game technology Wise compared to consoles.
Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament looked good, but ground breaking ? nope. Same goes for HL1,HL2, etc.. And they were all out before PS360... And most of the PC games as you said were PC exclusive, and usually not multiplatform...
Star Citizen is prolly the only PC exclusive game i can think of nowadays that is profitable to PC and even though, it runs like shit as of now fully maxed...
But yeah over the PC history, there must have been 1 game here and there that was better than a console game, I think Crysis comes to my mind... But over 20 years of PC gaming, I don't remember of major titles being amazed by its graphics. Console speaking though, I remember being impressed by the Dreamcast, by the PS2 (specially by MGS2, before it was then ported to PC) and the PS3 (the early Uncharted demo Sony had presented or even Fight Night 3 demo EA Had presented).
Oh now thinking about it, I was amazed by Doom 3 demo too, I remember buying a "high end" PC just to enjoy the leaked E3 demo
I'm not an idiot I know that paperwise, PC can be more powerful than consoles, but consoles don't use Windows, are dedicated to one single OS and hardware and developper tend to optimize their games (which is quite rare on PC these days ). You seem to think because of this, consoles is holding back PCs, but I think you are wrong.
So be it if you think I'm wrong, to each his own 
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:19 Post subject: |
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| cyclonefr wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | | cyclonefr wrote: | | For some reason that you are prolly gonna laugh at (i'm not pulling a KC here), I can tell you usually console games look better than their PC counterpart running at the very same resolution : Tomb Raider on PC in 1280x720 (+FXAA too!) looks terrible resolution wise compared to the PS3 version which runs at 720p. |
...what?
No really, what exactly does this mean? |
Whenever you are brave enough to try a console (or buy one), you will then compare games like I do. Then you will maybe understand what I'm trying to say. Until then, I don't think there is any point for me to debate with people that only have PC and never actually saw a game perform a console ever... |
But that's subjective. Don't start claiming opinions as fact. Just because YOU think it looks better on consoles doesn't make it so, it makes it your opinion.
I've seen enough on consoles to know that I should stay away from them.
I saw the last of us at a friends and the only thing I was thinking was how sweet that game would look if it were on PC. |
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:24 Post subject: |
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The Last of Us is really aliased IMO. And since there is no PC version, it's hard for me to judge about it. But some PS3 games definitely are less aliased and are in 720p too. (exclusive wise, you have Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls or the God Of War serie which look crisper and all are supposed to be in 720p too). Uncharted games are using the same engine as TLOU and look aliased too IMO.
Try Metro Last Light or then again, Tomb Raider on PS3, vs PC version of the same games, but in 720p too to make it comparable : you will see that the game on PC is more aliased for some reason. That's just what I'm trying to say.
I know that AA filters are supposed to be the same on PC and PS3, but for some reason I never managed to achieve the same antialiasing techniques without having major FPS loss (obviously MSAA or FSAA are killing performances, and that's why there is barely any console game using these techniques, while available on PC "just for fun").
And the same goes with the PS4 : there is no way BF4, AC4, or TR look as crisp as the PS4 version on my iMac in 1080p without using some heavy FSAA that then make the same run at 5fps (true story in AC4 with FSAA 8x ). There is also no way PS4 uses real FSAA either, the GPU isn't as powerful either.
Vaseline magic ? Or maybe my TV is applying some vaseline, but that's amazing if my TV can apply some FSAA filter that looks better than any proper FSAA effect.. I think LeoNatan ended up with that conclusion but I find this very unlikely (see my point about TLOU which is in 720p too and look worse than some other 720p games on the same TV)...
| Prefetian wrote: | | cyclonefr wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | ...what?
No really, what exactly does this mean? |
Whenever you are brave enough to try a console (or buy one), you will then compare games like I do. Then you will maybe understand what I'm trying to say. Until then, I don't think there is any point for me to debate with people that only have PC and never actually saw a game perform a console ever... |
But that's subjective. Don't start claiming opinions as fact. Just because YOU think it looks better on consoles doesn't make it so, it makes it your opinion.
I've seen enough on consoles to know that I should stay away from them.
I saw the last of us at a friends and the only thing I was thinking was how sweet that game would look if it were on PC. |
Last edited by cyclonefr on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:31; edited 4 times in total
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:26 Post subject: |
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I will fuck this game so hard it will look good at one point. I am sure now. It will look fucking good. No matter what.
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:31 Post subject: |
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I had a big ass reply written but I figured it's not worth it, he needs to justify getting an iMac and PlebStation 4 SOMEHOW.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Mar 2014 23:33 Post subject: |
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I was just thinking with a bit more shadow quality, a little blur here and there, more particles....it probably would look like the video from 2012. Maybe that is the difference between the PS4 and the PC version? Those more or less small things can change it all.
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On the other hand I am still looking forward to a better PC version. To a better version by far 
