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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
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 Posted: Tue, 1st Apr 2014 17:55 Post subject: |
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why EVGA?
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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bxrdj
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| Posted: Tue, 1st Apr 2014 18:25 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 1st Apr 2014 21:19 Post subject: |
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ASUS, GB, MSI, PALIT..
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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bxrdj
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Raccoon
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 09:55 Post subject: |
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I wanna get a 770. Is the basic Gigabyte a good model? I can't find ANY review of that specific version. It's basically a non-oc 770 with a WF cooler. It's pretty cheap and the other choice for the same money is an OC'ed Palit so no thanks. I use a single 1080p monitor, and I may buy another one in the future but that won't make any difference since I can't play on only two monitors.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 11:35 Post subject: |
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I heard GB isn't that good at cooling, even with the 3 fans. Else the cards are good.
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 11:36 Post subject: |
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| escalibur wrote: | | StrEagle wrote: | | ASUS, GB, MSI, PALIT.. |
Are you serious? |
| bxrdj wrote: | it is April 1st, he must be joking huh?  |
Yes, he is.
Palit's Jetstream cooler is ridiculously good. Better than EVGA's ACX in fact. And they do it at much less of a premium, at least here in Europe.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GTX_780_Ti_Jet_Stream/28.html
Do some research before you instantly attempt to mock someone's suggestion.
@ StrEagle: he went for EVGA because of their crazy good warranty most likely  |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 11:58 Post subject: |
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Thanks, that's good to know
So far I've used XFX, Palit and lately MSI.
XFX and Palit have both been used to destruction by me, but repaired and still "working".
Can't remember what my XFX8800GTX's problem was, but the Palit460GTX was repaired 2 times, both times was the IR gpu port or something, for about 20eur. They told me to dust it not with a vacuum cleaner, but an air compressor, and to maybe undervolt it by 0.1V.
MSI is working too for 6months now.
I've gotten driver crashes from them all.
Currently looking to replace my 760 HAWK with 780 Lightning, to see if there's any difference with their "military capacitors", but those disappear like lightning when in stock 
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 12:06 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | escalibur wrote: | | StrEagle wrote: | | ASUS, GB, MSI, PALIT.. |
Are you serious? |
| bxrdj wrote: | | it is April 1st, he must be joking huh? |
Palit's Jetstream cooler is ridiculously good. Better than EVGA's ACX in fact. And they do it at much less of a premium, at least here in Europe.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GTX_780_Ti_Jet_Stream/28.html
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Huh. While that sounds very good. I do have doubts about warranty availability in Romania, however, I can ask about that when I'll buy it. If it's sketchy, I'll go for an ACX cooled EVGA board since, well, WARRANTY!
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 12:12 Post subject: |
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Well that's the thing, under EU law it's the SHOP that has to do warranty for the first TWO years. They can. So that goes for you in Romania too
See http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm - no matter how the shop twists or turns, they have to provide the warranty if the product is faulty. If they don't, just threaten with reporting them to whatever the consumer law institute(s) is/are called in your respective country, they'll budge quick enough as those fines are not funny. Even Apple had to comply to this, so your local shop has to as well 
After those 2 years it's up to manufacturer but honestly, I personally don't give a fuck at that point as it's likely to be replaced by then 
That's why I'll never go for EVGA. They are far too expensive and the warranty is completely useless to me.
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 12:24 Post subject: |
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That shouldn't be a problem, seeing as how I specifically asked about mobo warranty and they said they are handling it but they are not repaired/replaced here, but in the nearest repair center, which wasn't in Romania. Anyway, I wouldn't mind paying with 20 euros or less for a Palit Jetstream card considering I could put those money towards a gold or platinum PSU.
Gonna read up some reviews, never really did care about Palit, but your statement earlier made me curious.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 12:59 Post subject: |
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Most people don't care about brands like Palit, because a lot of people have this fixation on EVGA. In the US that might matter, but in the EU it's a different story, because consumers are much better protected in the EU. So I get bxrdj's choice. Still, just putting on the arrogant face and sniffling at the mention of Palit is just stupid, sorry.
But when it comes to card/cooler performance/reliability, Palit has been just as good for years now. And I'm sorry to say that while EVGA is for Nvidia what Sapphire is for AMD, there's two differences. #1 is that Sapphire don't charge a premium; quite the opposite in fact, they're usually the cheapest (next to MSI). And compared to any other brand, regardless of whether it's Nvidia or AMD, they tend to put the most goodies in the box. If you buy an ASUS card, you get the card. End of story. With Sapphire you get a bunch of adapters and what not - whether you'll use them is a different story, but they're there
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 13:11 Post subject: |
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I was actually looking at a Palit board (cheaper than EVGA or Asus here, and that matters a lot, especially when the difference could be as big as 200 RON, which is pretty much for a normal Romanian. Most people I know just shrug Palit off, and I am sad to say I pretty much did the same, but I researched for a bit and it seems I was very wrong. Palit JetStream it is, hehe.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 17:56 Post subject: |
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Yea I'm in the US, and I do have a lifetime warranty ... also, I tested the card yesterday ... ran BF4 in 4K @ Ultra settings without any problems ... completely blown away how everything looked. I need to have more time to play through some of my favorite games
fuck ...
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bxrdj
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bxrdj
Posts: 1469
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 18:51 Post subject: |
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daaaamn 
here vcard warranty at best is 3years, and my experience is that they give up on the 4-th 
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 20:07 Post subject: |
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| bxrdj wrote: | | Sorry didn't mean to sound like an ass - Palit is good, I just really liked the look of this particular EVGA which really fit well into my system ... and the performance is incredible |
Didn't think that was your point, it was escalibur's though.
| escalibur wrote: | | Oh really? I'm having my fith 780 (because of binning) so obviously I don't know shit about these cards... |
Yes, replacing just because you think there's something better clearly makes you an expert  
| Quote: | | PALIT is ok but rember it offers the shortest warranty you can get, components are basic quality and VRM is nothing special. JetStream is ok cooler but definitely not the best ones out there and remeber that there are two versions of ACX cooler where Classified one is a bit bigger. None of them can beat MK-26 with proper 120mm fans or Accelero. |
No, but that's my point. You instantly mocked the Palit for absolutely no reason; even the Classified ACX is not as good as the JetStream.
Furthermore, to my knowledge only Palit and Gainward actually include an 8-phase PWM on their respective custom cards. So that would be one more reason not to dismiss it just because the brand name still isn't as big as it should be.
| Quote: | | When it comes EVGA is for stupid people make sure you learn what kind of cards EVGA makes, what kind of support and what kind of warranty policy it has. I extended my card's warranty up to 5 years for 25€. Yes before it was 10 years and for free but we are living in a different time now. Now 10yrs warranty is 50€. |
The "kind" of card they make really isn't that special. Like most manufacturers, for a large part they're reference boards with custom coolers. The ACX cooler is a good, but not the very best cooler. Their support isn't that amazing in Europe either. It's above average, but like I said, that's only for people who use their cards for more than 2 years here. Even then, a lot of shops have extended warranty services too; I can get an extension to 5 years from my retailer for 20 if I'm not mistaken (so that's from 2 to 5, 3 years extra).
I never said EVGA is for stupid people. EVGA is fantastic in the US. In the EU, the premium is just not worth it unless you only upgrade once per decade. For the rest of us, you included, 5 year warranty is meaningless. Especially when the second hand warranty is actually diminished over regular warranty.
It's the same as people hating on <insert HDD brand> because <reason>. It's complete and utter bullshit, as they all sit somewhere between 1-5% failure rate. Besides that, all their drives perform similar and what not. Any preference anyone has is purely personal. I for example will never ever in my life buy a mechanical drive from Samsung again, since apparently I on my own made up 1% of their failures back in 2012 when I had 5 different fucking drives (different capacities too) fail on me within 18 months of purchase; and 2 more in 2013. Meanwhile the rest of the hump swears by them and hates on WD, who have only failed me once; on a very heavily used, 7-year old drive.
Most custom GPUs are very similar. It's hard to pick a "better" or "best" one. What you can do though, is point at the bad ones. Like ASUS' GTX 680 DCU2. |
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 21:51 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | escalibur wrote: | | Oh really? I'm having my fith 780 (because of binning) so obviously I don't know shit about these cards... |
Yes, replacing just because you think there's something better clearly makes you an expert |
Did I said so? No. Does it mean that I might have some experience of these cards? Definitely.
| Werelds wrote: | | Classified ACX is not as good as the JetStream. |
Any proof of this?
| Werelds wrote: | | Furthermore, to my knowledge only Palit and Gainward actually include an 8-phase PWM on their respective custom cards. So that would be one more reason not to dismiss it just because the brand name still isn't as big as it should be. |
Well for me one year less warranty would be good enough reason to consider other options.
| Werelds wrote: | | The "kind" of card they make really isn't that special. Like most manufacturers, for a large part they're reference boards with custom coolers. The ACX cooler is a good, but not the very best cooler. Their support isn't that amazing in Europe either. It's above average, but like I said, that's only for people who use their cards for more than 2 years here. Even then, a lot of shops have extended warranty services too; I can get an extension to 5 years from my retailer for 20 if I'm not mistaken (so that's from 2 to 5, 3 years extra). |
EVGA offers you customer care even when you have a warranty to the shop you bought the card from. That's very handy when you buy the card from some local store with very poor customer support. Still today we need to hassle with German shops because many of them have only few employees who actually understand an email written in english.
That extended warranty offered by shop is not the point. Of course you can have the most expensive insurance and what not but we were talking about difference between Palit and EVGA.
| Werelds wrote: | | I never said EVGA is for stupid people. EVGA is fantastic in the US. In the EU, the premium is just not worth it unless you only upgrade once per decade. For the rest of us, you included, 5 year warranty is meaningless. Especially when the second hand warranty is actually diminished over regular warranty. |
Once per decate? No 3 or 5 years, no? Really? Regardless of that the longer warranty is the better. Second hand warranty sucks but it works as long as the original owner wants to co-operate or you can use tricks to cheat EVGA about the original owner (it works when you know how to do it).
| Werelds wrote: | | It's the same as people hating on <insert HDD brand> because <reason>. It's complete and utter bullshit, as they all sit somewhere between 1-5% failure rate. Besides that, all their drives perform similar and what not. Any preference anyone has is purely personal. I for example will never ever in my life buy a mechanical drive from Samsung again, since apparently I on my own made up 1% of their failures back in 2012 when I had 5 different fucking drives (different capacities too) fail on me within 18 months of purchase; and 2 more in 2013. Meanwhile the rest of the hump swears by them and hates on WD, who have only failed me once; on a very heavily used, 7-year old drive. |
OK.
http://techreport.com/news/25940/hard-drive-reliability-study-names-names
http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/
| Werelds wrote: | | Most custom GPUs are very similar. It's hard to pick a "better" or "best" one. What you can do though, is point at the bad ones. Like ASUS' GTX 680 DCU2. |
Like I said better components longer warranty and good support can be good resons to pay a bit more.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd Apr 2014 23:55 Post subject: |
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| escalibur wrote: | | Any proof of this? |
Sure.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_780_Ti_Classified/28.html
Summary, ordered by load temperature:
| Code: |
Palit GTX 780 Ti JetStream 26°C 65°C
EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX 31°C 72°C
EVGA GTX 780 Ti Classified 29°C 75°C
MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming 30°C 78°C
ASUS GTX 780 Ti DC II 32°C 80°C
NVIDIA GTX 780 Ti 30°C 83°C
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| Quote: | | Well for me one year less warranty would be good enough reason to consider other options. |
| Quote: | | Regardless of that the longer warranty is the better. |
Really? Even when you won't use it even past the law-mandated warranty period? And that applies to you too, you upgrade your machine regularly enough. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think you're wasting money by spending 10-15% on warranty you are highly unlikely to use. And as shown above, there are better products out there. If a product really is of proven higher quality, then sure. But in this case that 10-15% only goes towards warranty and I'm sorry, but that's just silly. That's Apple's way - or it used to be 
| Quote: | | http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ |
Not sure what you're even trying to prove, but did you even read the article?
The number of different Seagate models exceeds that of all other brands combined (8 Seagates, 3 WD, 4 Hitachi). Clearly some of Seagate's models are just shit - is that really surprising?
They also say that the 1.5 Green model are warranty replacements and that they suspect they're refurbished ones, so that skews the plot a lot. You can just as easily twist that and say that Seagate's 1.5 TB LP + AS are the most amazing drives after WD's green series, since they have a longer average lifespan than any of the other ones.
| Quote: | | Like I said better components longer warranty and good support can be good resons to pay a bit more. |
Show me the better components.
Regardless, you're trying to make it look like I'm saying EVGA isn't good or whatever, while my point was that *you* instantly dismissed Palit purely on its name, rather than on the merits of the product. EVGA hasn't gotten worse over the years, they're still as good as ever. It's just that everyone else got a lot better (MSI and Palit in particular have been pumping out some impressive results lately) and EVGA's growth stagnated.
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Apr 2014 02:03 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:19; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Apr 2014 02:11 Post subject: |
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I just checked - here Palit are the only ones with 2years of warranty, all others have 3 year.
Still my old Palit 460GTX gave up after 4years, so I'm ok.
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Apr 2014 09:38 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | escalibur wrote: | | Any proof of this? |
Sure.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_780_Ti_Classified/28.html
Summary, ordered by load temperature:
| Code: |
Palit GTX 780 Ti JetStream 26°C 65°C
EVGA GTX 780 Ti SC ACX 31°C 72°C
EVGA GTX 780 Ti Classified 29°C 75°C
MSI GTX 780 Ti Gaming 30°C 78°C
ASUS GTX 780 Ti DC II 32°C 80°C
NVIDIA GTX 780 Ti 30°C 83°C
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Important: GPU temperature will vary depending on clock speed, voltage settings,
cooler design, and production variances. This table just serves to provide
a list of typical temperatures for similar cards determined during TPU review.
Same voltages? Maybe not. Exactly same ambient temperature and the system the cards were tested? Maybe not.
| Werelds wrote: | | Really? Even when you won't use it even past the law-mandated warranty period? And that applies to you too, you upgrade your machine regularly enough. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I think you're wasting money by spending 10-15% on warranty you are highly unlikely to use. And as shown above, there are better products out there. If a product really is of proven higher quality, then sure. But in this case that 10-15% only goes towards warranty and I'm sorry, but that's just silly. That's Apple's way - or it used to be |
Yes really. Longer warranty definitely gives more value to the card when you try to sell it or give it to a eg. family member etc.. So personaly I don't see it as waste of money. Sure someone else can.
| Werelds wrote: | | Show me the better components. |
How about these: http://www.irf.com/product-info/directfet/, Japanese caps, low ESR caps, points for voltage measuring etc.. Are they all really a big deal? Depends
| Werelds wrote: | | Regardless, you're trying to make it look like I'm saying EVGA isn't good or whatever, while my point was that *you* instantly dismissed Palit purely on its name, rather than on the merits of the product. EVGA hasn't gotten worse over the years, they're still as good as ever. It's just that everyone else got a lot better (MSI and Palit in particular have been pumping out some impressive results lately) and EVGA's growth stagnated. |
Yes I dismissed it because personally I think there are better choices IMO. If you think Palit suits your needs perfectly then go for it I couldn't care less.
MSI is good even I just can't understand why on Earth did they put Elpida memory chips on a card like Lightning which is created for extreme overclocking. Other than that MSI is totally fine.
Gigabyte is also good even the cooler is pretty poor and eg. Asus is better choice even many cards have Elpida's chips. Now of course small number of buyers will care about the whole thing but this is like HIFI when you try to compare all little details you might want to have etc..
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Apr 2014 10:37 Post subject: |
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| escalibur wrote: | | Same voltages? Maybe not. Exactly same ambient temperature and the system the cards were tested? Maybe not. |
"Okay"
Now you're just grasping at straws. But okay, let me at least debunk one part of this post. #1 is that what they're saying there is that the temperature will vary while playing, not that it varies from day to day. Nonetheless, let's look at your voltage remark. On that very same page, it says they measured a maximum voltage from of 1200 mV.
Now, let's look at that 780 Ti Jet Stream, shall we? Same site so the way they measure is the same: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GTX_780_Ti_Jet_Stream/28.html
Well, look at that, 1210 mV. So the Jet Stream is in fact cooler with more voltage; the slightly lower clock will offset that slightly in its favour, but not by 7 degrees. Ambient temperature is also not going to cause a 7 degree difference, TPU are better than that. The worst you can say is that with identical clocks and voltages, the coolers are probably about as good as each other.
Nice caps. Except that to my knowledge EVGA don't use them. Haven't for years. In fact, as far as I know only Gigabyte still puts Japanese caps on their high-end GPUs - note that I'm not including the extreme GPUs from them, MSI or EVGA in this, as those cards are an entirely different class in which not every brand bothers to compete.
If I'm wrong, please correct me - with a link to actual facts rather than your opinion based on air.
| Quote: | Yes I dismissed it because personally I think there are better choices IMO. If you think Palit suits your needs perfectly then go for it I couldn't care less.
MSI is good even I just can't understand why on Earth did they put Elpida memory chips on a card like Lightning which is created for extreme overclocking. Other than that MSI is totally fine.
Gigabyte is also good even the cooler is pretty poor and eg. Asus is better choice even many cards have Elpida's chips. Now of course small number of buyers will care about the whole thing but this is like HIFI when you try to compare all little details you might want to have etc.. |
So you're dismissing Palit because there are "better" choices and then you go on about "smaller" details such as memory chips. Can I let you in on a secret? Palit exclusively use SK Hynix on their non-reference cards.
Your dismissing Palit is based on nothing else than not knowing the brand. Years ago when they were first starting, sure, they weren't a top brand. What brand ever is? They are now generally considered as some of the best cards around by both overclockers and reviewers. If you don't agree that's fine, but their products are not inferior in any way. The warranty is the only thing that sets EVGA apart from them and that is not a reason to dismiss them; because in that case, every brand should be dismissed apart from EVGA. In fact, in that case, I suppose you also would never consider any other car brand than Kia, since they have 7 years of warranty.
Yes, I'm being a condescending asshole now, simply because you're being just as condescending whilst not providing any arguments whatsoever and are unwilling to admit you may have reacted too hastily. |
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iNs
Posts: 91
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 3rd Apr 2014 11:00 Post subject: |
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Why the fuck would someone even remotely consider paying for 10 years of warranty? Personally I'm not a fan of wearing my IT down and most likely im going to sell mine before it's worth nothing, which is why I find this approach totally ridiculous. (Well, except the hard drives really, it's never wrong to have your data backed up on a spare old one)
@Werelds, that backblaze blog is actually piece of useful data, you just have to properly look at it, which I dont think he did , and yes, dismissing palit right at the start, ehm, dismissing any wider range of products just because its not a top brand is, well, simply naive and foolish ;]
I, on the other hand, have had all hdd brands fail on me, but Samsung was the only one that let me save entire data from it (1 - 3 mb/s ;D) before dying down. All of the others, once figured failing and being fiddled with, just went kkthxbai.
sience is a cold-hearted bitch with a 14-inch strap-on
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