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 Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 13:35 Post subject: |
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I think they really are working hard on the gameplay. Some of the biggest gripes about Civ you can have are being fixed, hopefully. The article I posted renewed my faith in Civ 4. I always cringe when games go 3D for the sake of 3D. It never leads anywhere good. Hopefully it wont become a big deal though.
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 14:51 Post subject: |
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i am amazed that people bitch about a game coming 3D lol....
And its not "3D for the sake of 3D"
Its kinda like saying "I dont want to play battlefield 2 online because it could be a fine single player game"
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 16:38 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | i am amazed that people bitch about a game coming 3D lol....
And its not "3D for the sake of 3D"
Its kinda like saying "I dont want to play battlefield 2 online because it could be a fine single player game" |
Not really... the online feature in Battlefield is an extra feature, extra features (often) doesn't hurt the gameplay itself. But the 3D feature in Civ4 hurts the game because games like Civ is "easier" to look at if it was 2D, and it's much easier to mod 2D than 3D
Oh, and for those who's interested in knowing more about the game, this is the place to go:
http://civilization4.net/3/74/
Every piece of information ever released about this game is to find here (except videos)
The game has lots of improvements to earlier Civ games
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 17:10 Post subject: |
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how can u all say that its "better".. its not even out.
Compare a game that went from 2D to 3D.
look at rome total war.
Now please tell me you dont think medievil total war was far better than rome..
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 17:56 Post subject: |
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Look, you obviously aren't prepared to listen to the arguements being made as you keep on missing the point entirely. It has nothing to do with adversity to 3D engines, it has everything to do with priority and payoff.
Is the 3D engine any better than the 2D engine of the old civilization series? Well, is it? Of course not, anyone with an eye for details will see that clearly because it looks a mess graphically, with it being hard to discern objects from landscape and vice-versa, landscape from units.
It's 3D for the sake of 3D, and they haven't even took the time to give it a discernable artistic style. Also as mentioned it makes modding the game (a huge aspect of the Civ community no less) presumably a lot more difficult.
You also keep mentioning Rome Total war but there the same problem exists. What features of benefits did the 3D map bring? None whatsoever, in fact it also looks far worse than the old 2D map in terms of clarity and atmosphere (what the hell is it supposed to represent? At least in the original games I knew I was looking at a map that a shogun was manipulating, am I using some kind of satallite in Rome Total War??).
Now, for example take a look at Grand Theft Auto - the transition to 3D there was much more monumental and a lot less for the sake of having 'fancy 3D graphics' to pander to the masses. It also retained the exact same style in gaphics and control, only in a 3D universe.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 17:58 Post subject: |
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Another point I forget to mention - it's not even real 3D! It's pseudo 3D and it's utterly pointless.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2005 18:00 Post subject: |
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BTW they must have updated the engine as it looks a lot better now? 
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Aug 2005 16:28 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | how can u all say that its "better".. its not even out.
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As with all games, the gameplay is what's important. And based on what I know about the gameplay (see link above) and the fact that when Firaxis created Civ3 they had huge problems during the development (a huge part of the team got fired) and the game was built on an old engine... oh, and back then they were owned by Atari/Infogrames who just wanted to release the game ASAP. And there wasn't really any beta test of the game IIRC
Civ4 on the other hand has a larger team, nobody has left the game development, they're not owned by Atari (or anyone else like them who just want to release the game ASAP) so they have more time to finish the product. Also Civ4 was built from scratch (though the use the same graphic engine as Pirates). Civ4 has now been in a "beta" for more than a year, and they have played MP games for at least 2 years
Clearly Civ4 has a much better chance of success than Civ3... of course we can't know for sure before the game is released
| -=Cartoon=- wrote: |
Compare a game that went from 2D to 3D.
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As mentioned above: Gameplay is important, not graphics
If graphics can help the game, then fine, if not, then don't bother making it. It's much more diffecult to make a game look as good in 3D as it does in 2D
Look at all those tycoon games. 90% of all tycoon games beeing made are made in 3D just because 3D is "inn"... look at how many of those 3D tycoon games that are a success? That's a very low percentage. While if you look at the few games made in 2D, they have a higher chance to be successfull. Why? Because they don't waste time making ugly 3D games
| -=Cartoon=- wrote: |
look at rome total war.
Now please tell me you dont think medievil total war was far better than rome.. |
I've only tried Rome total war and was bored to death...
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nightlith
Posts: 744
Location: Land of Bagged Milk
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 02:10 Post subject: |
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i love how cities are actually expanding visually on the map. Kinda sucked having a size 1 city and a size 25 take up the same exact space.
Normally I'd be harping about graphics too, but the dev team is doing alot of gameplay tweaks and they aren't afraid to share them. Unlike AoE3, where all ES wants to brag about is graphics. To me, ES gives the impression that's all they care about, and it doesn't sound or look like they've done much to improve and revolutionize the RTS genre. The whole home city thing is a crock.
At least the Civ4 team is mixing things up, trying new things and generally improving things all over the place.
i can has computar?!
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 02:24 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | The graphics on the avator characters for the respective nations are really sweet, but I just hate, with a passion, the way 2D games are transformed into 3D! It's stupid as there is no benefit, the game looks no better as a result, in fact; it looks worse.
Just take a look at the screeshot and tell me it doesn't look a mess visually. It's hard to discern objects from landscape, landscape from units.
3D for the sake of 3D, and they haven't took the time to give it a discernable artistic style. |
Rome actually took the 2d map to a new dimension by simply introducing fixed 3d. Sure it's nothing new but it added to the experience. Hopefully CIV4 can adapt the same principal.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 04:41 Post subject: |
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Rome took the map to a new dimension of suck. It was a mess. The whole thing could of also been done in 2D and been more functional and looked better.
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 05:10 Post subject: |
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how on earth was it a mess ???? explain.
It added strat and value to the game..
Sure it Could have been done in 2D.. but you could just say "2D for the sake of 2D"
It goes both ways.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 05:18 Post subject: I think this game might be really good. |
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 06:27 Post subject: |
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It didnt zoom out far enough for one. The territory lines were a mess. It just didnt look good as well. The battlemap was great, but the strategic map should of stayed 2D.
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-=Cartoon=-
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 06:52 Post subject: |
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It didnt Look good ???
Look at the screenshots i posted...
You cant blame 3D for those "issues you said" eg the zooming one.. thats just how they programed it.
Like i said.. the civ series is one of my fav games of all time... i love it.. but im keeping a open mind..
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 07:06 Post subject: |
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I can blame 3D for that. Because the more you zoom out the more that would of needed to be rendered. They limited it because of this. If they had used 2D this wouldnt have been a problem. Or maybe they just wanted to show off the fancy visuals. Which again serves no point and hinders gameplay. In a stragetic game seeing so little of the map at a time is a real pain in the ass.
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Griffon
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poullou
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Aug 2005 15:50 Post subject: |
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I liked AOE2+Conquerors best for LAN matches. Not into civilization really for quite some time...I remember an ancient civilization playing it on a 386SX: if it's the same concept, amen for that!
Ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς - Μολὼν λαβέ
Today is a gift. That's why it's called the present.
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ollax
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Sep 2005 18:41 Post subject: |
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Do i have to have Play the world to be able to play civ 3 in multi?
Q2 How the hell do i get allies in civ 3 ?
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most!
"Ozzy Osbourne"
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Sep 2005 18:51 Post subject: |
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| sueil wrote: | | I can blame 3D for that. Because the more you zoom out the more that would of needed to be rendered. They limited it because of this. If they had used 2D this wouldnt have been a problem. Or maybe they just wanted to show off the fancy visuals. Which again serves no point and hinders gameplay. In a stragetic game seeing so little of the map at a time is a real pain in the ass. |
You can't blame 3D for that. 2D also needs to render more as you zoom out. On today's cards, 3D is better accelerated than 2D, so no excuse.
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Sep 2005 21:34 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | It didnt Look good ???
Look at the screenshots i posted...
You cant blame 3D for those "issues you said" eg the zooming one.. thats just how they programed it.
Like i said.. the civ series is one of my fav games of all time... i love it.. but im keeping a open mind.. |
Why do you keep grinding this bone Cartoon? The 3D Map is pointless in Rome. It serves NO PURPOSE other than to offer eyecandy to screenshots for those who are put off by 2D graphics. And a lot of consumers ARE put off instantly by 2D graphics. By moving the strategic map to 3D they solved the problem.
However, if you weren't such a fanboy you'd realise that there was a lot wrong with Rome, especially in terms of streamlining (read: dumbing down) and rushing release (hell, some of the files are there unfinished for you to look at).
Nobody is saying that the 3D map is a game killer - though I won't repeat what has been said 800 million times already in this thread alone. |
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Oct 2005 09:10 Post subject: When it will be out |
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When the Civilization IV will be out?
Life is too short, play more
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SycoShaman
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Oct 2005 09:40 Post subject: |
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We dont have crystal balls here at Nforce....check the Civ 4 website for release date (or perhaps this thread?)
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Oct 2005 10:15 Post subject: |
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Well civ 4 sure will be a game that will be played with pleasure... The thing that its in 3d should not bug anybody we all know that 3d sells better than 2d (even the supperior 2d adventures become 3d )
yes the thing with the city size is not goo, but it'll be good to know that the buildings in the city will not be the same in every city in civ 4 will not use pre-built city models , they will use the L-system to performe a city layout so they say that every city will be different in a way from the others
Well the globe view is a coll 3d trick.
so we will see the truth only when we put it on our PC's
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Saner
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Oct 2005 10:18 Post subject: Re: When it will be out |
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| j_singal wrote: | | When the Civilization IV will be out? |
Its been cancelled.
The Devs got annoyed with to many users asking questions about piracy and cancelled it.
They said "If people are just going to download it, whats the point"
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa! |
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-=Cartoon=-
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I'd be really grateful if someone records it and uploads it somewhere .. I think its not anything illegal, if it is, please delete my post.
