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Posted: Fri, 21st Oct 2005 22:49 Post subject: |
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i think this game was not the game of the year... still waiting for CoD2... i have played through the demo, like 100 times now...
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Posted: Fri, 21st Oct 2005 23:13 Post subject: |
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RoadRunner12 wrote: | Mchart wrote: | RoadRunner12 wrote: | Unimaginative, over-hyped crap. It's like Doom 3 with more baddies to shoot but lacking the atmosphere which was, to my mind, then ONLY thing that made Doom 3 anywhere near playable. Other than that it was just a case of: walk into room, monster spawn, kill monster, monster spawn behind you, kill monster, walk into next room. Over and over again until I was bored shitless by the end of the game. This seems pretty much the same but with more straight forward ass kicking as an attempt to make up for the lack of atmosphere.
The problem is that niether Doom 3 or Quake 4 have any appeal once you get past the initial wow factor of the graphics. Having said that, if you strip away all the shadowing and lighting and actually look at the levels, what you're left with is a pretty ugly and undetailed game. Shit, the shadows aren't even that good and they were a major selling point of the engine in the first place! I remember John Carmack saying when he previewed the Doom 3 engine that every surface would cast its own DYNAMIC shadows. So why then, when I shine my torch at the corner of a wall, don't I see it causing realistic MOVING shadows on the wall behind as I move the torch around? The shadows that do actually move seem to be cast by either scripted pieces of machinery or the in-game characters.
It wouldn't be so bad if the game wasn't so fucking dark all the time. Fair enough, in Doom 3 it was just about acceptable (although a lot of people complained at the time) as it was a part of the atmosphere, but there isn't really any place for it in a Quake game in my view, and after an hour or so it gets really annoying. I remember playing Quake 2 and it was brightly lit and (for it's day) graphically pleasing. This seems to be using the darkness simply to hide shitty texturing.
When will ID (or Raven for that matter) realise that graphics and sound alone don't make a game fun to play? It's the combination of these things coupled with the most important factor that seems to have been forgotten in their trying to impress: GAMEPLAY. Both Doom 3 and Quake 4 have a severe lack of it. If you're looking for something that's fun to play, graphically pleasing and has decent gameplay, I'd stick to playing F.E.A.R.
One final point I'll make before I shut up is that there still doesn't seem to be any attempt an innovation going on here. It's still the same formula as the original games, just with a new graphics engine. Small tip for games designers: it's 10 years later guys, and things have moved on! Take a look at UT2004 (for a multiplayer comparision) and F.E.A.R. (for a single player comparison) and you'll see what I mean. These games are packed with features other than the standard run, shoot, heal shit you get with Quake and Doom these days.
Rant over.
Anyone else care to post a proper review or shall we just go back to bitching about the protection? |
1.) Its called the BRIGHTNESS SETTING, if you do not like the dark because it makes you want to piss yourself, use it.
2.) If you have a graphics card with 512mb of video ram, then you are able to use the highest quality textures. Which I might add, look much better then half life 2's.
3.) Please do not make me whip out my signature on you.
4.) You expect WAY to much from games. Not to mention the fact that Quake 4 was not hyped by iD, raven, or activision AT ALL, yet you clame it was an overhyped PoS. Yeah, Ok.
5.) Yeah, its 10 years later. They made quake 2 but with /really/ good graphics. I'm sorry, are you saying thats a bad thing? |
1.) I shouldn't have to use the brightness setting to be able to SEE WHAT I'M DOING. If you turn the gamma up so you can actually see properly then the other colours simply become washed out and black turns to grey. The point is that there's way too much black hiding rubbish textures.
2.) Don't be silly. Even on maximum detail there's no actual detail there when you get close up, the textures just become a messy blur. As far back as the first Unreal engine, other game engines (including the Source and F.E.A.R. engines) have employed a second layer of textures (detail texturing) that only become apparent when you get up close as it's not rendered at distance. Hence, when you approach a wooden surface close up, you can begin to see grain or when you get close to a painted wall, you can actually see the brush strokes. This has not been employed in any of ID Software's engines so far.
3.) GAME = Combination of graphics, sound and, most importantly: GAMEPLAY.
4.) I never said Quake 4 was hyped by ID or Raven. I was referring to people on forums and people I know who were expecting the game to be something better than it was and were disappointed. I DID say the ENGINE was hyped by ID which, originally, it was.
5.) Yep, it's 10 years later so why haven't they come up with anything new? The same thing with better graphics? Come on. Games companies can do much better than this if they simply put their minds to it. Take a look at the games I mentioned in other posts. |
*yawn*.
The doom3 engine bump maps every single surface, thus using 3 textures instead of only 2. Yes, it does not have detail texturing, but at least everything has /depth/.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2024/untitled6cy.jpg
And you still fail to see the fact that on the higest settings, thus using the highest detail texture set, that detail texturing is not needed, as it looks so good anyways.
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SycoShaman
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 00:11 Post subject: |
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doom 3 fanboy mchart? 
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 00:14 Post subject: |
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Mchart wrote: | SycoShaman wrote: | doom 3 fanboy mchart?  |
Call me what you like, but I am giving information which definatly is not made up. |
Im just buggin ya dude 
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 00:20 Post subject: |
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use quote tags so I dont hurt my brain trying to read your overly opinionated post you eejit
no. heard of structure you conformist chicken.
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 01:03 Post subject: |
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Mchart wrote: | RoadRunner12 wrote: | Mchart wrote: |
1.) Its called the BRIGHTNESS SETTING, if you do not like the dark because it makes you want to piss yourself, use it.
2.) If you have a graphics card with 512mb of video ram, then you are able to use the highest quality textures. Which I might add, look much better then half life 2's.
3.) Please do not make me whip out my signature on you.
4.) You expect WAY to much from games. Not to mention the fact that Quake 4 was not hyped by iD, raven, or activision AT ALL, yet you clame it was an overhyped PoS. Yeah, Ok.
5.) Yeah, its 10 years later. They made quake 2 but with /really/ good graphics. I'm sorry, are you saying thats a bad thing? |
1.) I shouldn't have to use the brightness setting to be able to SEE WHAT I'M DOING. If you turn the gamma up so you can actually see properly then the other colours simply become washed out and black turns to grey. The point is that there's way too much black hiding rubbish textures.
2.) Don't be silly. Even on maximum detail there's no actual detail there when you get close up, the textures just become a messy blur. As far back as the first Unreal engine, other game engines (including the Source and F.E.A.R. engines) have employed a second layer of textures (detail texturing) that only become apparent when you get up close as it's not rendered at distance. Hence, when you approach a wooden surface close up, you can begin to see grain or when you get close to a painted wall, you can actually see the brush strokes. This has not been employed in any of ID Software's engines so far.
3.) GAME = Combination of graphics, sound and, most importantly: GAMEPLAY.
4.) I never said Quake 4 was hyped by ID or Raven. I was referring to people on forums and people I know who were expecting the game to be something better than it was and were disappointed. I DID say the ENGINE was hyped by ID which, originally, it was.
5.) Yep, it's 10 years later so why haven't they come up with anything new? The same thing with better graphics? Come on. Games companies can do much better than this if they simply put their minds to it. Take a look at the games I mentioned in other posts. |
*yawn*.
The doom3 engine bump maps every single surface, thus using 3 textures instead of only 2. Yes, it does not have detail texturing, but at least everything has /depth/.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2024/untitled6cy.jpg
And you still fail to see the fact that on the highest settings, thus using the highest detail texture set, that detail texturing is not needed, as it looks so good anyways. |
And you fail to see that this is only at a distance. Those textures you posted are still only 256*256 as are most in the game. They look very nice at that size but up close the detail disappears and they still blur due to stretching.
It is possible to use bump mapping, normal mapping, standard texturing AND detail texturing all at the same time. Also, what about other effects like reflections or environment mapping? I don't see those in there either.
Halflife 2 and F.E.A.R. use normal mapping to create moving shadows on the textures in real time as you shine light on them as well as reflections, bloom effects, etc. The Doom 3 engine, when you shine a light on a surface, it remains the same simple texture only brighter. Very boring and unrealistic too.
Check out that link to Oblivion I posted earlier if you want to see depth of texturing AND detail combined with other effects to produce some very realistic looking surfaces.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 01:35 Post subject: |
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any1 completed this game? (I cba lookin through the thread) ive been playin it for a bit and im on the tram hub station. I think I have all the weapons although they're gettin upgraded as well so im not sure how long there is to go. Probably gonna end up losin all my weapons soon anyway (as it happens in most games lately).
Well yea i'm a quake fanboy but this game is amazing. I dont seen how this is not a 9-10. Also just so ya know.... the lighting is perfect. Its much better and accurate than fear. It might not look as pretty at first but if you actually 'think' about it, thelighting is perfect in q4 whereas in fear it was flawed.
I've not found myself bored yet (like I was on fear and im on level 9)
The MP is pretty good (ive opnly played 15 mins). Its not as frantic as quake 3 and the launch pads arent as 'fun' but they're still nice. I like how they've toned down the rockets too and actually make a good dm now. I played a CTF last night and didnt die once in 10 minutes! I was raping like fuck we need an nforce server, i'll deffo play sometime and whoop u all. Also with the tourney mode it's pretty ideal if we can get enough people signed up 
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 02:16 Post subject: |
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RoadRunner12 wrote: | Mchart wrote: | RoadRunner12 wrote: |
1.) I shouldn't have to use the brightness setting to be able to SEE WHAT I'M DOING. If you turn the gamma up so you can actually see properly then the other colours simply become washed out and black turns to grey. The point is that there's way too much black hiding rubbish textures.
2.) Don't be silly. Even on maximum detail there's no actual detail there when you get close up, the textures just become a messy blur. As far back as the first Unreal engine, other game engines (including the Source and F.E.A.R. engines) have employed a second layer of textures (detail texturing) that only become apparent when you get up close as it's not rendered at distance. Hence, when you approach a wooden surface close up, you can begin to see grain or when you get close to a painted wall, you can actually see the brush strokes. This has not been employed in any of ID Software's engines so far.
3.) GAME = Combination of graphics, sound and, most importantly: GAMEPLAY.
4.) I never said Quake 4 was hyped by ID or Raven. I was referring to people on forums and people I know who were expecting the game to be something better than it was and were disappointed. I DID say the ENGINE was hyped by ID which, originally, it was.
5.) Yep, it's 10 years later so why haven't they come up with anything new? The same thing with better graphics? Come on. Games companies can do much better than this if they simply put their minds to it. Take a look at the games I mentioned in other posts. |
*yawn*.
The doom3 engine bump maps every single surface, thus using 3 textures instead of only 2. Yes, it does not have detail texturing, but at least everything has /depth/.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/2024/untitled6cy.jpg
And you still fail to see the fact that on the highest settings, thus using the highest detail texture set, that detail texturing is not needed, as it looks so good anyways. |
And you fail to see that this is only at a distance. Those textures you posted are still only 256*256 as are most in the game. They look very nice at that size but up close the detail disappears and they still blur due to stretching.
It is possible to use bump mapping, normal mapping, standard texturing AND detail texturing all at the same time. Also, what about other effects like reflections or environment mapping? I don't see those in there either.
Halflife 2 and F.E.A.R. use normal mapping to create moving shadows on the textures in real time as you shine light on them as well as reflections, bloom effects, etc. The Doom 3 engine, when you shine a light on a surface, it remains the same simple texture only brighter. Very boring and unrealistic too.
Check out that link to Oblivion I posted earlier if you want to see depth of texturing AND detail combined with other effects to produce some very realistic looking surfaces. |
Your right, you don't see those effects, why? Because they aren't even used in both of the games. The engine itself is capable of it though.
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 02:25 Post subject: |
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Well earlier I posted that I was tired of shooters like this. While that may still be true, for some unknown reason I have been compelled to play this game. We'll see if that continues, but I am surprised.
As for the graphics, RoadRunner12 is right in some respects. The darkness hides poor textures. I'm running the game at 1280x1024, High (but not the 512MB GPU setting) and it isn't exactly blowing me away. The characters look amazing, but the environments just aren't very good. And I was really impressed with Doom 3's graphics. I guess since there is actually some light in this game, allowing me to see the textures, I am not so impressed anymore. In defence of the engine, all games have crappy looking textures up close, but at least textures in HL2/SCCT/FarCry/etc. look relatively photorealistic from far away. Quake 4 textures don't really. The worst textures in the game (and from a geometry standpoint too) are the ones making up the extra terrestrial landscape. The planet surface looks like ass.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents for the moment 
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 02:43 Post subject: |
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the fear shot is at a higher res (i couldnt be arsed loadin quake again and takin 1 at 1280) but as you can see the quake 4 shot is a LOT better. even the gun model is better, I dont see how you people can say fear is better. Nothing is. Day of defeat source and it's HDR is amazing and is more sspectacular than both but quake is a lot smoother than fear too. btw.... the screenshots don't show EXACTLY like it is in game. They're a little worse (especially on the quake shots) but nvm they're still impressive.
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 04:07 Post subject: |
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enderone wrote: | use quote tags so I dont hurt my brain trying to read your overly opinionated post you eejit
no. heard of structure you conformist chicken. |
is that a question or a statement I cant tell becasue of your abundant lack of IQ
'heard of a structure you conformist chicken' is that supposed to be
'Have you heard of structure you conformist chicken?'
are we just leaving out random words in sentances now?, goody heres my go!
ahem...
conformist? you ____ wannabe emo ______. Man what happened did your _____ mother tie dye one of your ____ black shirts? or did you run out of ____ black eyeliner? lets put is this way If I wanted to listen to an __hole, I'd fart.
having fun yet? I sure am, now if you can remove your head from your own backside and get back on topic which funnily enough in the thread entitled Quake 4 we are strangely enough supposed to be discussing Quake 4 amazing huh.
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 06:21 Post subject: |
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 07:46 Post subject: |
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 08:53 Post subject: |
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Both these games have ugly textures, especially Fear. Even in hi-res with AF they look ugly when you are standing close to them. Didnt try q4 in ultra high tho
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SycoShaman
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Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 10:13 Post subject: |
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I dunno, the games in question are all pretty good looking i'd say.
And really, who the fuck can run FEAR on the highest settings?
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 11:47 Post subject: |
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me, fear looks superior and most importantly plays superior....out.
Quote: | PC awesome button = Uninstall! |
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Mutantius
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Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 12:47 Post subject: |
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.... that screenshot is fear with all the settings maxed out.
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 12:54 Post subject: |
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Toxikated wrote: | Sublime wrote: |
the fear shot is at a higher res (i couldnt be arsed loadin quake again and takin 1 at 1280) but as you can see the quake 4 shot is a LOT better. even the gun model is better, I dont see how you people can say fear is better. Nothing is. Day of defeat source and it's HDR is amazing and is more sspectacular than both but quake is a lot smoother than fear too. btw.... the screenshots don't show EXACTLY like it is in game. They're a little worse (especially on the quake shots) but nvm they're still impressive. |
Regardless of which has better graphics, it isn't really an accurate comparison. Look how close to a wall texture you are in FEAR, where in Quake 4 you're farther away from the walls, which makes the textures appear sharper.
BTW I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I don't even have FEAR so I'm not saying it looks better, I'm just making a point  |
Exactly. The Quake 4 shot is a nice wide angle shot of a complex environment made up of many polygons, wheras the shot of F.E.A.R. is a really simple close up of 2 walls. However, notice the far wall has a nice dappled effect showing DETAIL. Sure, the Quake scenery has more polygons overall and looks good from a distance, but up close you lose that entirely. Try taking 2 close ups and comparing them and you'll see the difference.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
Last edited by RoadRunner12 on Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 12:59; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Sat, 22nd Oct 2005 13:07 Post subject: |
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Toxikated wrote: | Well earlier I posted that I was tired of shooters like this. While that may still be true, for some unknown reason I have been compelled to play this game. We'll see if that continues, but I am surprised.
As for the graphics, RoadRunner12 is right in some respects. The darkness hides poor textures. I'm running the game at 1280x1024, High (but not the 512MB GPU setting) and it isn't exactly blowing me away. The characters look amazing, but the environments just aren't very good. And I was really impressed with Doom 3's graphics. I guess since there is actually some light in this game, allowing me to see the textures, I am not so impressed anymore. In defence of the engine, all games have crappy looking textures up close, but at least textures in HL2/SCCT/FarCry/etc. look relatively photorealistic from far away. Quake 4 textures don't really. The worst textures in the game (and from a geometry standpoint too) are the ones making up the extra terrestrial landscape. The planet surface looks like ass.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents for the moment  |
I have to agree. They did very well with the characters. But then they're all modelled at a ridiculous resolution in Maya or 3D Studio Max (not sure about Quake 4 but the models for Doom 3 were done by the animation guy who worked on Shrek, and were done at movie quality) and then scaled down for the game, using normal mapping on low polygon models. They're still not as highy poly as the characters in Halflife 2 or FEAR and they don't have anywhere near as many frames of animation but they have got the machine/organic combination spot on.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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vortex66
Posts: 628
Location: Døñ't løøk ßåçk
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Posted: Sun, 23rd Oct 2005 16:33 Post subject: |
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ffs it's so annoying that you cant multitask with this engine, it's bin like that since q3 :/
Last edited by Kamikaze666 on Sun, 23rd Oct 2005 17:23; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sun, 23rd Oct 2005 17:01 Post subject: |
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Kamikaze666 wrote: | ffs it's so annoying that you cant multitask with with engine, it's bin like that since q3 :/ |
It's always been that way with ID's engines. All the way back to the original Quake.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? - Bill Hicks
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Posted: Sun, 23rd Oct 2005 22:59 Post subject: |
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You can hit alt-enter to put it in windowed mode, then you are free to alt-tab out of the game. Unless that isn't what you meant
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Posted: Sun, 23rd Oct 2005 23:18 Post subject: |
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Kamikaze666 wrote: | ffs it's so annoying that you cant multitask with this engine, it's bin like that since q3 :/ |
yup, was worse with doom 3 though because some of the keycodes were on websites. great idea but poorly executed in the sense u had to close the game and then open it up again. doom3 was also pretty slow at loading too so it was more hassle than it was worth.
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