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 Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 12:57 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | @xxax I think that there are laws regarding smog limitation (or perhaps some kind of regulation attempt). There are designated cycle paths. There are rules in place for drivers. These things are for the safety and well being of society. It's called social responsibility. For example, people don't have fucking common sense and have to be told to wear a seatbelt - which is enforced by law. You might not like these things, but that's the way it is because people are stupid.
I 100% agree with you about investigating the root of the problem of binge drinking. |
Of course society needs to function and it needs rules, but people take things too far. I study law (unfortunatly) and people have this tendency to think that everything they disprove off needs to be regulated. And yes people are stupid but you cannot outlaw that. There needs to be a degree of personal responsibility that people need to accept. So i'm was totally fine (and still am) when they banned smoking in public places here. I can always go outside and i kinda like the fact not every piece of clothing smells like an ashtray. But smoking outside, i mean seriously who cares? But to some people this causes insane aggressive outbursts (like throwing water at someone let say), which probably means there are issues elsewhere....
We had a case here years ago where some people took out loans at high interest rates at a company and when they lost their homes there was an uproar about why didn't the notary tell them what they were signing (which isn't his job at all, all he does is make the contract official). Then all the people then started to scream where is the state with its laws to protect its citizens. Well you cannot protect someone from being stupid.
That's why i dislike more limitations and rules because all it does is take personal responsibility away from people and they gladly give it.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:08 Post subject: |
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I have no problem with smoking, none whatsoever, as I was a lifelong smoker and only quit 4 years ago. I miss it every day, I loved the smell, the taste, the fact that it kept my appetite in check and also helped ease the stress and tension I feel every waking second. When they banned smoking inside public buildings, I approved, though when they banned smoking in pubs (completely, absolute blanket ban without any kind of compromise such as a "smoking room") the lawmakers were responsible for the enormous crash of the pub industry.. leaving only the large, food-based, chains left. That was over-regulation to the point of stupidity. Smoking in outdoor open-air places was never limited or banned and anyone complaining about a nearby smoker was able to move away.
The same can't be said about alcohol abuse and violence. Anyone claiming that it doesn't need to be regulated, or have *massively* increased fines/retribution for ANY crime or act of violence committed whilst under the influence, is either grossly detached from reality, never saw the effects of alcohol abuse, or is an abuser themselves and feeling the need to lash out.
This isn't a debate, this is my steadfast belief and will not engage anyone who thinks they can "talk" me away from it.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:11 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:12 Post subject: |
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I don't know and I don't care, all I know is that alcohol abuse and related violence has spiraled out of control and there need to be tougher reactions to people abusing it. I don't care whether you or anyone else agrees, to be blunt. Nobody ever died from passive smoking (Name Three) but a lot of people are injured or killed every single day by someone abusing alcohol.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:13 Post subject: |
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Ok, what's you're problem? I'm just asking.... You say something needs to be done, i'm asking how...
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:14 Post subject: |
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I'm English and I've seen what a society of alcohol abusers does, that's my problem, so I'm tired of uppity people like you complaining when people like ME want something done about it. So yes, I "disprove" of abuse. I'm funny that way.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:20 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | I'm English and I've seen what a society of alcohol abusers does, that's my problem, so I'm tired of uppity people like you complaining when people like ME want something done about it. So yes, I "disprove" of abuse. I'm funny that way. |
Excuse me, when did i start complaining about anything you said?
And funny you calling me uppity with your response....
You make a statement i just wanted to how you think this would work.... Don't see anything particularly uppity about that....
I want something done about wars and poverty and disease.
How?
Oh you uppity bastard....
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:28 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:30 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: | I really dislike cyclists when i'm in my car, they are all suicidal maniacs. I think we should severely limit where cyclists can drive.
I really dislike car drivers when i'm on my bike, they are all homicidal maniacs and half of them don't know who has right of way, i think we should severely limit where cars can drive. |
It's already "severely" limited, they're called roads and bicycle lanes.
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:36 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:41 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | It is the smokers responsibility to step off, into his own space, when he is amongst a crowd of non smokers - bus stop etc... The purpose of law isn't to provide social etiquette. |
This I completely agree with. Smoking is, in my opinion, vastly different to alcohol abuse.
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:44 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Your attitude is uppity and the way you twist arguments to suit your agenda, as always, and I'm simply not complying. It's the attitude of victim-blaming, whenever someone wants something done people like you pull the "oh you just want it regulated because you disprove  " and throwing out rhetorical "so how would YOU regulate it?" knowing full well no answer, if one was even possible, would satisfy you. You'd always find another way to twist it.
Alcohol fueled thugs and vandals are the problem, not those that want it stamped out. |
Actually i was talking to the OP and his insane dislike of smokers (and people like Leo that apparently throw water at someone if they dare to smoke next to them outside), where its obvious that they want it banned because they disprove.
I only wrote about alcohol, saying that it be better to study why everyone needs to binge drink, which i think is a much more serious issue than the effects that transpire when they actually get drunk.
And its rather pointless to join a debate if whatever question anyone throws at you, you make it personal and refuse to expand upon it, based on what someone might say back. I wasn't even looking for a satisfactory answer, i just wanted to know how you'd regulate it.
So whatever....
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 13:54 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 14:04 Post subject: |
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13525
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 14:15 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 06:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 15:20 Post subject: |
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one has to take things to extremes for debate to happen sadly, happy u guys did actually start debating amonsgt yoursleves, and im very happy others also bring up the alcohol industry. I have lost my best friend as a kid to a drunk driver who walked away without a scratch, ending my childhood right there and then.
Im sure there is people on here who lost friends/family/relatives to throat cancer, a gruesome death.
Its all related , both tobacco, alcohol and even the food industry (the sugar industry) are hurting/damaging/killing us for profit and we just sit by and let it happen cause they lobbied their way into being legalized through the profits they made on the deaths of the people u might know.
Let me ask u this, do u speak up if u see someone smoke nearby kids or babies ? If not, why dont u speak up ?
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 16:45 Post subject: |
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Taking things to the extreme as you put it decreases your credibility, ending with you being figured for an idiot and having your opinions ignored.
As for a debate? There's nothing going on here, just a bunch of white knights and a couple of sensible people. The entire merit of this conversation has been rendered moot since the first post.
Clown Fiesta
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 17:32 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: | She's probably 150  |
She's actually 19, that's what smoking does to you  |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 17:38 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | 
no...please stop...stop killing yourself sweet angel 
STAHP  |
Zeh angel!  |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 17:45 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | | Nalo wrote: | | It is the smokers responsibility to step off, into his own space, when he is amongst a crowd of non smokers - bus stop etc... The purpose of law isn't to provide social etiquette. |
This I completely agree with. Smoking is, in my opinion, vastly different to alcohol abuse. |
Aye with the key element being intoxication and unaccountability for ones actions. Man I hate this aspect of the UK. |
But they tried that already in the States, it just made people who sold it anyway, rich.
In Sweden it's already regulated by the government (Systembolaget which has a monopoly on alcohol) where they jack up the prices on alcohol so high that getting high on cocaine is almost cheaper than going out for a drink with your friends at the local pub.
And just to further add how ineffective it is (systembolaget), I live in Trelleborg which is a port to both Germany and Poland. On the weekends (especially during the summer) I see people with what I would estimate is around hundred liters of alcohol (beer, wine and spirits combined) dragging them onto the bus going home.
Regulating it DOES NOT WORK. What they should do is increase the punishment for those who can't behave under the influence (ie. huge fines or even jail).
And smoking, well...we actually got a law passed here some time ago about littering and huge fines (upwards 1000SEK I think) where cigarette-butts were not applicable to it.
Last edited by Mr.Tinkles on Sun, 10th Aug 2014 17:54; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 17:53 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73277
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 18:10 Post subject: |
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| Nalo wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: | | Nalo wrote: | | What annoys me is second hand smoking. To have some obnoxious fuck light up next to me, in a public place - say a bus stop - is the ultimate irk. Keep the slow suicide to yourself pls |
I just ask people to go away. Once threw a cup of water at a moron's sig after he said it was a "public space" so he could do "anything". So I just threw my cup at his cigarette. He wasn't smoking after that. |
You threw the water and the cup!? Damn you psycho |
You mean physico. 
It was a plastic cup. Smoke really gives me trouble breathing, and assholes that say shit like that deserve to get some water thrown at them. |
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 18:12 Post subject: |
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@LeoNatan You seem to have some anger issues... 
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 19:18 Post subject: |
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Regulating it how Sweden does doesn't work indeed. But then again Sweden has a laughable law to begin with.
Only thing that Systembolaget does is: giving booze even more appeal and stimulating other economies.
+ they also have a crap police force so even if they'd make up laws for people who are disruptive they can't enforce it.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73277
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 19:24 Post subject: |
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| Prefetian wrote: | | @LeoNatan You seem to have some anger issues... |
I wasn't angry when I did it. Just an asshole that decided to blow his smoke at me. I decided to throw my water at him. |
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swebarb
Posts: 2154
Location: Vikingland
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 19:42 Post subject: |
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only stupid people smoke today. 
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Ankh
Posts: 23356
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Sun, 10th Aug 2014 22:12 Post subject: |
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| Ankh wrote: | What I dislike is when they put ashtrays right outside entrances/exists to stores. Cos then I cant avoid the bloody smoke. Be it that I enter or exit, I will still have to walk into that bloody smelly cloud.
Its also great that landlords pretty much demand people to smoke on their balcony rather than in their appartments nowadays...apart from the fact (which I pointed out earlier) that people above have the bloody smoke straight into their appartments 
Edit: I also dislike that you cant take more than without finding cigarette filters laying on the ground. So yeah, there you have it..the reason why I really hate smoking. |
I can tell you that I actually really like the smell of the residue from cigarette smoke. 
And I'm willing to guess that a lot of smokers and ex-smokers would say the same thing.
The filters are a filthy habit but alas there's no easy way of disposing of them and since we're so ace here in Sweden we clean the streets once a week from ALL kinds of crap, not just the butts.
| LeoNatan wrote: | | Prefetian wrote: | | @LeoNatan You seem to have some anger issues... |
I wasn't angry when I did it. Just an asshole that decided to blow his smoke at me. I decided to throw my water at him. |
I don't even...  |
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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