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 Posted: Fri, 4th Nov 2005 15:25 Post subject: |
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Most people who actually buy games dont have any problems with Starforce protection so they have no reason to boycott SF protected games. Of course there are few people who have troubles but looks like game publishers are ready to lose those few customers cuz much more people who cant run downloaded copy will buy game instead.
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005 00:13 Post subject: |
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atm there's not even one starforce game that does not run with sfcure. buying a starforce game is a option that never crosses my mind. the only starforce title i bought is chaos theory bundled with my gfx card, and i haven't properly bought it myself...
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| Posted: Sat, 5th Nov 2005 13:36 Post subject: |
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happy to know that after i posted that link for the forum with the SF issue, more & more ppl are starting to realize that there's a real danger in that (after... of course, having to take some kicks in the b*t). The thing is that after altering microsoft's original components (files) a lot can be done (mostly harmful), and, as i said before, most of it is causing information to bypass certain software, who are relying on those original files. take for instance antivirus and malware software who are built on the information that microsoft provides them: if one major file like this (ex: ntdll or dllhost) is altered, that software stops responding like it should, as it (in my case) did, and so, worms and trojans bypassed my active (updated) antivirus software, and trojan, worm.... remover.
now, as i see it, this is a major turn in Microsoft's credibility ('cause until now they were prompt to the minute with security issues and patches), and there are only 2 ways of solving this: either software who are affected by this sue Microsoft, and, Microsoft sues SF (as you said:)), or the people ("end users") make a difference, and at least complaining and letting them know that we know  , because.... let's get real here... nobody can really believe that microsoft is going to sue some other company because somebody said something on a forum, as long as the money keeps coming in from that company... don't you think ?
hope my english is ok ))
and as for the other games... OF COURSE there are tons of other good games out there, i can only tell you about a few that almost nobody heard of, and they keep you in front of your screen for hours without even noticing it.
ok... that's a lot of writing... gtg -> thanx for reading
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Hamigo
Posts: 157
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Dec 2005 15:46 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Dec 2005 17:34 Post subject: |
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I've been moved to register here just to post on this...
Hate to say it, but it's over. Let's face facts, SF has won.
The trouble is, there's only so much consumer cash in the world and once *all* software has SF, there's going to be a few nasty surprises for some of these software houses as people will not be forced to just buy SF titles, but they'll choose the games they buy. It's simply ridiculous for software companies to say 'a million downloads equals a milion lost sales' - it just doesn't work like that. If this were true, the introduction of SF would have reduced prices as companies would sell that many more of them - has that happened?
Surely if piracy was the reason for poor selling titles, Race Driver 2 would have kicked The Sims off the top of the chart? It didn't and therein lies the lesson...
Personally, I won't buy a SF title *ever*. I'd really like Choas Theory, and bought the first SC for xbox and the second for PC, but I just plain refuse to install this stuff on my PC. Imagine having to get approval from Ford every day just to drive your Focus!
I've downloaded stuff sure, but if it's something I really want (like Doom3), I'll buy it. I think a lot of people feel the same.
Ramble over!
MB
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Dec 2005 17:55 Post subject: |
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| nameless0ne wrote: | I've been moved to register here just to post on this...
Hate to say it, but it's over. Let's face facts, SF has won.
The trouble is, there's only so much consumer cash in the world and once *all* software has SF, there's going to be a few nasty surprises for some of these software houses as people will not be forced to just buy SF titles, but they'll choose the games they buy. It's simply ridiculous for software companies to say 'a million downloads equals a milion lost sales' - it just doesn't work like that. If this were true, the introduction of SF would have reduced prices as companies would sell that many more of them - has that happened?
Surely if piracy was the reason for poor selling titles, Race Driver 2 would have kicked The Sims off the top of the chart? It didn't and therein lies the lesson...
Personally, I won't buy a SF title *ever*. I'd really like Choas Theory, and bought the first SC for xbox and the second for PC, but I just plain refuse to install this stuff on my PC. Imagine having to get approval from Ford every day just to drive your Focus!
I've downloaded stuff sure, but if it's something I really want (like Doom3), I'll buy it. I think a lot of people feel the same.
Ramble over!
MB |
sf has won? dunno what u smoke but it must have been good!
atm starforce and securom are pretty much the same:
1- u can burn cd 1:1
2- u can play dvdimages unplugging ide drives
i'm not buying any sf title and i'm playing what i like... x3 reunion, gtlegends, earned in bood etc.
starforce won a couple of battles in the past year, but the war has changed direction months ago and now is near to be over.
rip
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Bigperm
Posts: 1908
Location: Alberta,Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Feb 2006 23:39 Post subject: |
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| nameless0ne wrote: | I've been moved to register here just to post on this...
Hate to say it, but it's over. Let's face facts, SF has won.
The trouble is, there's only so much consumer cash in the world and once *all* software has SF, there's going to be a few nasty surprises for some of these software houses as people will not be forced to just buy SF titles, but they'll choose the games they buy. It's simply ridiculous for software companies to say 'a million downloads equals a milion lost sales' - it just doesn't work like that. If this were true, the introduction of SF would have reduced prices as companies would sell that many more of them - has that happened?
Surely if piracy was the reason for poor selling titles, Race Driver 2 would have kicked The Sims off the top of the chart? It didn't and therein lies the lesson...
Personally, I won't buy a SF title *ever*. I'd really like Choas Theory, and bought the first SC for xbox and the second for PC, but I just plain refuse to install this stuff on my PC. Imagine having to get approval from Ford every day just to drive your Focus!
I've downloaded stuff sure, but if it's something I really want (like Doom3), I'll buy it. I think a lot of people feel the same.
Ramble over!
MB |
Hmmmm. Well i guess im its just my imagination that all SF clones seem to work fine for me.
And that there isnt a huge amount of people complaining and boycotting SF.
You said yourself that you will never buy a SF title *ever* . But SF has won? Can you see the contradiction.
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TheDuck
Posts: 148
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Feb 2006 15:27 Post subject: |
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That's not true CableMunkeh 
| Code: |
VM-EIP OPERATION PARAM #1 PARAM #2 RESULT
00793A5C xor R_2F8(77B97629h), R_498(4200A3A8h) 35B9D581h
00793A64 mov R_7B8(00008B20h), R_2F8(35B9D581h) 35B9D581h
00793A6C sub R_2F8(35B9D581h), R_490(D4210051h) 6198D530h
00793A74 mov R_640(D4200000h), FFFFFFFFh FFFFFFFFh
00793A80 and R_2F8(6198D530h), R_640(FFFFFFFFh) 6198D530h
00793A88 mov R_498(4200A3A8h), 0000001Fh 0000001Fh
00793A94 mov R_038(51314530h), R_2F8(6198D530h) 6198D530h
00793A9C and R_038(6198D530h), R_498(0000001Fh) 00000010h
00793AA4 mov R_498(0000001Fh), R_038(00000010h) 00000010h
00793AAC mov R_640(FFFFFFFFh), R_490(D4210051h) D4210051h
...
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Opcodes inside VM are generated, that's true but with good analysis code a logger like this can decode function of each one of them. So it's possible to decrypt entire VM without actually executing it. Logging is better when you need to see how its working, see values used by the VM code, decrypted VM is good when you want to patch lets say cdcheck or some other things, its up to crackers imagination.
-TD
btw, what's wrong with this "code" tag, it does not really work does it?
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Feb 2006 18:23 Post subject: |
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I was referring Duck to there being no resemblance between the VMs in each game.
Am aware that VM can be analysed, albeit not statically, using sexy custom tracing and logging once it's been decrypted.
My main point was that you can't crack the thing generically and need to perform analysis on every title individually, and logger needs rewriting with each major version.
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TheDuck
Posts: 148
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Feb 2006 21:39 Post subject: |
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Thats not true either, when you look at decrypted VM code, there are parts that can be analysed even more into smaller pieces, and when you finally merge all connected pieces it all makes sense, more than that, some vm-coded functions are visible, with this, cracker can understand how it really works, there's no magic behind it, just macro->vm converted data with little addons for crc/time checking, driver level checking, it's all skippable 
-TD
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 01:25 Post subject: |
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| TheDuck wrote: | Thats not true either, when you look at decrypted VM code, there are parts that can be analysed even more into smaller pieces, and when you finally merge all connected pieces it all makes sense, more than that, some vm-coded functions are visible, with this, cracker can understand how it really works, there's no magic behind it, just macro->vm converted data with little addons for crc/time checking, driver level checking, it's all skippable
-TD |
You've not seen the self-modifying stuff I guess dude. Check the newest versions which are a totally different approach to the VM loop.
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TheDuck
Posts: 148
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 01:38 Post subject: |
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It does not matter how it works or where it gets the data from, important thing is, there are patterns, easly visible in 3.6/3.7 as well.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 14:12 Post subject: |
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i think we never defeat starforce, because at the time we cracked a version there is already a new one.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 16:08 Post subject: |
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| highstuff wrote: | | DJ_Brummos wrote: | | i think we never defeat starforce, because at the time we cracked a version there is already a new one. |
that doesn't mather SF will be defeated some day, cuz of very advanced tools
without an debugger how can you crack safedisc 2 ??? would be difficult, so when new tools are designed SF will be easy to. slowly progress will be made just wait for the cracking gods. |
ok mabey starforce will someday be defeated, but then someone came along and presented the new "crackproof" security for games, named bladiebla. so if starforce will be defeated, they will come with something else.
the crackers need to speed up, so if they crack a version of starforce, that we can enjoy that a long time and not that starforce release a new version a day after the crack.
lets get 1 thing straight, ofcourse i like to see that it would be cracked, but we have to admite, starforce is on the winning hand now. mabey not in the future, who knows.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 16:32 Post subject: |
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| DJ_Brummos wrote: | | highstuff wrote: | | DJ_Brummos wrote: | | i think we never defeat starforce, because at the time we cracked a version there is already a new one. |
that doesn't mather SF will be defeated some day, cuz of very advanced tools
without an debugger how can you crack safedisc 2 ??? would be difficult, so when new tools are designed SF will be easy to. slowly progress will be made just wait for the cracking gods. |
ok mabey starforce will someday be defeated, but then someone came along and presented the new "crackproof" security for games, named bladiebla. so if starforce will be defeated, they will come with something else.
|
ofcourse but that is the game and then crackers&coders have learned alot from SF, so with every new prot , for the protection developers will also every time be more difficult to find other new protection tricks. but youre right at this moment SF is one step ahead. I am pretty certain that it will be different in the future.
Last edited by highstuff on Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 16:42; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 16:34 Post subject: |
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| highstuff wrote: | | DJ_Brummos wrote: | | highstuff wrote: |
that doesn't mather SF will be defeated some day, cuz of very advanced tools
without an debugger how can you crack safedisc 2 ??? would be difficult, so when new tools are designed SF will be easy to. slowly progress will be made just wait for the cracking gods. |
ok mabey starforce will someday be defeated, but then someone came along and presented the new "crackproof" security for games, named bladiebla. so if starforce will be defeated, they will come with something else.
|
ofcourse but that is the game and then crackers&coders have learned alot from SF, so with every new prot , for the protection developers will also every time be more difficult to find other new protection tricks. |
but the programmers also learn alot from the crackers, if the crackers find a hole, the programmers know where to look for the hole and close it, so its just a cat and mouse game
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Skibbi
Posts: 10
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 21:17 Post subject: |
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BTW, what happened to that spanish group of crackers which claimed that they've been very close to full reversal of SF?
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Feb 2006 21:33 Post subject: |
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they are still on it but they overlooked an new found VM.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Feb 2006 16:05 Post subject: |
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The VM instructions are different for each game, all you can do is write tools to make it easier to decompile the VM.
In other words it's not possible to say 'there are xxxx pcodes and x pcode does y' because it's not static.
If they have been on it all this time and 'overlooked' a newly found VM I'd be surprised I understand these guys are very good, however looks as though before they've reversed it a new version is released which moves the bar up again.
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| Posted: Sat, 11th Feb 2006 19:03 Post subject: |
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Well, from my informations RLD has got new tools to speed up the process now.
Don't know what will happen with SF4.0, but at least I'm sure that there are some people around who are not going to give up.
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Feb 2006 00:59 Post subject: |
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deviance is doing good too thank god
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Feb 2006 01:22 Post subject: |
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Winter Challenge (c) Cyanide-DEVIANCE SF 3.7 !! So DEVIANCE can crack SF
stop pressing F5 get a Life !
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| Posted: Sun, 12th Feb 2006 01:35 Post subject: |
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finaly some other scene grup gets they hands on Starforce
go Deviance
go Reloaded
--------------------------------------------------------after this line let those sf fans lament
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some1 that have some info about release date. Or is it still unknown ??
) then at least release the game with an good emulation alternative or Ultima type of crack so then for software company's would be useless to use the expensive SF I am certain that publishers then would have switched back to Safedisc or Securom. now its to late every publisher knows this prot is difficult to crack and it actual works to prevent copies. with the exeption of clones wich are for p2p kids an hassle to use. but it will be cracked anyway eventualy and no RLD doesn't have enough crackers&coders so its up to FLT to prove me right 
