|
|
| Page 307 of 629 |
|
|
 Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:38 Post subject: |
|
 |
http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/
| Quote: | | Because Valve communicated their plan ineffectively, it turned people off completely, which meant “hey, modders might not get paid at all!” As a modder, that makes me sad. |
| Quote: | Valve, please put together a plan that sucks less; or at least, seems to suck less. But, most importantly, please continue to support modders. Like you’ve done. Like no one else really does. As a modder, I appreciate it more than I could possibly tell you in this short article.
Over the past three years, you guys have literally changed my life for the better, and an internet mob will not deter me from saying it. |
Funny how many modders are coming out of the woodwork now, talking about how they need this money to eat when there wasn't even a monetised modding prospect or community in the first place. How did they eat before a week ago? All this drama has certainly shown a lot of true colours in the so-called community.. and I don't care if they think they deserve to sell mods, I won't be buying them. Ever.
Last edited by sabin1981 on Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:38; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:38 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:45 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/
| Quote: | | Because Valve communicated their plan ineffectively, it turned people off completely, which meant “hey, modders might not get paid at all!” As a modder, that makes me sad. |
| Quote: | Valve, please put together a plan that sucks less; or at least, seems to suck less. But, most importantly, please continue to support modders. Like you’ve done. Like no one else really does. As a modder, I appreciate it more than I could possibly tell you in this short article.
Over the past three years, you guys have literally changed my life for the better, and an internet mob will not deter me from saying it. |
Funny how many modders are coming out of the woodwork now, talking about how they need this money to eat when there wasn't even a monetised modding prospect or community in the first place. How did they eat before a week ago? All this drama has certainly shown a lot of true colours in the so-called community.. and I don't care if they think they deserve to sell mods, I won't be buying them. Ever. |
If getting money for their work was so damn important for them, they wouldn't have kept modding games for free for all this time without uttering a word of payment other than donations. Sad part is that this won't dissappear. Same as with the feminism shit, it's a play on peoples consciousness. Brining up something that will be seen as unfair and/or a real issue for the general public, and they will make a shitload for it.
You see people trying to come up with compromises instead of getting rid of this shit. Like more money for the devs and less to publisher and steam. It's always like this. We seriously have enough leeches on our credit cards in this day of gaming.
Last edited by Stormwolf on Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:47; edited 2 times in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 22:45 Post subject: |
|
|
@sabin1981 | Quote: | | How did they eat before a week ago |
| Quote: | | I won't be buying them. Ever. |
Sounds like a plan. Fuck'em cunts.
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jackbomb
Posts: 2532
Location: Tortilla de patatas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:00 Post subject: |
|
|
| h0rnyfavn wrote: | @sabin1981 | Quote: | | How did they eat before a week ago |
| Quote: | | I won't be buying them. Ever. |
Sounds like a plan. Fuck'em cunts. |
Absolutely 
If you guys see me buying a mod from Steam, I hereby demand you to deactivate all my accounts and permanently unplug my internet, because that would mean I'm no longer compos mentis and need to be straitjacket'd and interned as soon as possible xD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:05 Post subject: |
|
|
| ixigia wrote: | | hereby demand you to deactivate all my accounts |
Sure thing bro, email me your password and credentials for all accounts. WIll do :P
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:11 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: |
Funny how many modders are coming out of the woodwork now, talking about how they need this money to eat when there wasn't even a monetised modding prospect or community in the first place. How did they eat before a week ago? All this drama has certainly shown a lot of true colours in the so-called community.. and I don't care if they think they deserve to sell mods, I won't be buying them. Ever. |
Maybe they would just be flippin' burgers instead of creating content? Money might create an incentive for the modders to put more time and work into the content.
Not that im counting on the modders to go all in and actually live off a 25 % cut. A cut which is ridiculously low, if you ask me).
I think it's only fair to let the modders decide if they are gonna sell their mods or not. Afterall they are the ones who are doing all the work, although I find it hard to believe that Valve can and will supervise the system properly, In case some douche decides to rip off other mods to earn a profit, as we saw with that fishing rod mod.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:15 Post subject: |
|
|
| Mutantius wrote: | | Maybe they would just be flippin' burgers instead of creating content? |
| sabin1981 wrote: | | talking about how they need this money to eat when there wasn't even a monetised modding prospect or community in the first place. How did they eat before a week ago? |
My question stands once more. There are countless modders and teams that have put out works of art that shame most dev studios.. and they did it for free, without payment. How did *they* eat? I have nothing against modders receiving donations, but putting this stuff behind paywalls because they are "entitled" just shows their true colours more than ours.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14497
Location: Poland. New York.
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:19 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | We believe mod developers are just that: developers. We love that Valve has given new choice to the community in how they reward them, and want to pass that choice along to our players. We are listening and will make changes as necessary.
We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set. It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own. Even if you never try a mod, the idea you could do anything is at the core of our game experiences. Over the years we have met much resistance to the time and attention we put into making our games heavily moddable. The time and costs involved, plus the legal hurdles, haven’t made it easy. Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars. While others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it.
We are always looking for new ways to expand modding. Our friends at Valve share many of the same beliefs in mods and created the Steam Workshop with us in 2012 for Skyrim, making it easier than ever to search and download mods. Along with Skyrim Nexus and other sites, our players have many great ways to get mods.
Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.
In our early discussions regarding Workshop with Valve, they presented data showing the effect paid user content has had on their games, their players, and their modders. All of it hugely positive. They showed, quite clearly, that allowing content creators to make money increased the quality and choice that players had. They asked if we would consider doing the same.
This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. We’re even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.
Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasn’t easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.
We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.
We also don’t think we should tell the developer what to charge. That is their decision, and it’s up to the players to decide if that is a good value. We’ve been down similar paths with our own work, and much of this gives us déjà vu from when we made the first DLC: Horse Armor. Horse Armor gave us a start into something new, and it led to us giving better and better value to our players with DLC like Shivering Isles, Point Lookout, Dragonborn and more. We hope modders will do the same.
Opening up a market like this is full of problems. They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those, but there will be new ones, and we’re confident those will get solved over time also. If the system shows that it needs curation, we’ll consider it, but we believe that should be a last resort.
There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop then he made in all the years he asked for donations.
Revenue Sharing
Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.
First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.
The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.
Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.
This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.
The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.
We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.
The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.
The Larger Issue of the Gaming Community and Modding
This is where we are listening, and concerned, the most. Despite seeming to sit outside the community, we are part of it. It is who we are. We don’t come to work, leave and then ‘turn off’. We completely understand the potential long-term implications allowing paid mods could mean. We think most of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them could hurt what we have spent so long building. We have just as much invested in it as our players.
Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn’t like how it affected the game.
There are things we can control, and things we can’t. Our belief still stands that our community knows best, and they will decide how modding should work. We think it’s important to offer choice where there hasn’t been before.
We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same.
Bethesda Game Studios |
http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:22 Post subject: |
|
|
they should have the mod payments kinda optional and not paywalled
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:22 Post subject: |
|
|
bla-bla-bla
corporatebullshit corporatebullshit corporatebullshit
bla-bla
we support our community!111oneone
corporatebullshit bla-bla
bla
translation
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:27 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:33 Post subject: |
|
|
| sabin1981 wrote: | | Mutantius wrote: | | Maybe they would just be flippin' burgers instead of creating content? |
| sabin1981 wrote: | | talking about how they need this money to eat when there wasn't even a monetised modding prospect or community in the first place. How did they eat before a week ago? |
My question stands once more. There are countless modders and teams that have put out works of art that shame most dev studios.. and they did it for free, without payment. How did *they* eat? I have nothing against modders receiving donations, but putting this stuff behind paywalls because they are "entitled" just shows their true colours more than ours. |
Well they are entitled to do as they please, since they are the ones who creates the content...
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bayerss
Posts: 106
Location: Gimpsville
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:38 Post subject: |
|
|
Valve were shocked at the response of the average gamer so one must give them time to get their PR department running at full capacity. Stay tuned to the usual suspects [PC Gamer etc..] for many more articles paid for directly by Valve. Fucking cunts... all of them
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:40 Post subject: |
|
|
If they were so desperate for cash, they should have set up a website and sold their mods. Or asked for donations.
Wait... most of them did that already. So obviously it wasn't generating enough money to support their habit.
I wonder how many will actually make any useful money out of this - in fact, those that were getting donations, I wonder how many of those will see their income decrease dramatically when they try to put it behind a paywall...
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bayerss
Posts: 106
Location: Gimpsville
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Apr 2015 23:48 Post subject: |
|
|
| PC Gamer "editor" Evan wrote: | | .Lobbying against paid modding is actually advocating for PC gaming being a more corporate affair, in my mind, in that it cuts out independent creators from contributing (competing, even) and getting paid. |
  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 00:08 Post subject: |
|
|
The way they try to justify taking 45% for doing *nothing* is..... it's utterly revolting. I hate every single thing about this. I hate Valve's ever-growing greed, I hate ZeniMax's greed, I hate "modder" greed. I hate it all.
| Mutantius wrote: | | Well they are entitled to do as they please, since they are the ones who creates the content... |
I am entitled to keep my money in my wallet.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:06 Post subject: |
|
|
http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
Payment "feature" removed from Workshop. No more paid mods.... for now, at least.
| Quote: | We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.
To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.
But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.
Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:12 Post subject: |
|
|
All they had to do was change "PURCHASE" to "DONATE" and let the gamers select "$0.00" as an option. That way there's a centralised donation functionality built into Workshop that satisfies all parties; those that are used to modding being done for free and those who want to donate to support modders.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:17 Post subject: |
|
|
It's like the whole SOPA/PIPA thing... try to push something so truly revolting that the overwhelming majority rage at it, then take it away and put something else in its place. That "something else" is still disgusting, but it's not AS disgusting, so people are still happy the old plan has been scrapped.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:17 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | we didn't understand exactly what we were doing |
=
We thought you lot would buy into all our bullshit. We were wrong. We'll have to rethink our strategy and come up with a new plan. See you soon, suckers.
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:19 Post subject: |
|
|
Well that was unexpected. Back to worshipping Lord Gaben I guess, until the next fuck-up.
ASRock B450 Pro4 || Ryzen 7 3700X || Patriot Viper 16Gb DDR4-3600 || ASUS GeForce RTX 3080 TUF GAMING || XPG GAMMIX S11 Pro 1Tb || Xiaomi Mi Surface Display 34" (3440x1440)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:20 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:21 Post subject: |
|
|
Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 00:56; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:22 Post subject: |
|
|
Good news... now I hope they would establish a donate system soon so we don't get something else that's still horrible. 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Tue, 28th Apr 2015 01:29 Post subject: |
|
|
Good that they learned from this. L4D3 and especially Source 2 will implement the feature better.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 307 of 629 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
 |
|
Oh well, at least it's gone now. It will undoubtebly return with the release of Team Fortress 3/ Portal 3/ Half-Life 3 though. Possibly the next Bethesda game as well (Fallout 4/TES: Elsweyr? 
) ?
