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 Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 11:28 Post subject: |
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you are right, it's not very weak in this game, but it's just one game and we would need a lot more to come to better conclusions if 750Ti rig is faster/slower than ps4. and most importantly there's price difference of 213 euros.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 11:40 Post subject: |
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There's a lot more evidence from the channel where that video is from btw, but you seem to be missing a big point here as well.
Even if that build is more expensive right now than a PS4, there's will be other parts that u can purchase down the line that can be even more powerful and perform much better while still holding that price point, if u want of course because you're not stuck with the same hardware.
Btw the 750ti was released in February 18, 2014 for a 149$
and the PS4 in November 15, 2013 so just 3 months before the 750 ti.
Last edited by fable2 on Fri, 5th Jun 2015 13:35; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 12:36 Post subject: |
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@rgb#000 | Quote: | | it's not very weak in this game, but it's just one game |
Thus game happens to be one of the most demanding games released so far.
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 12:48 Post subject: |
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doesn't matter, like i said, it's just one game. various games perform differently on various systems, we would need much broader test to come to any decent conclusions.
but why pay 213 euros more than PS4 to get PS4-like performance in witcher3? that doesn't make any sense if you are about budget gaming. (yes i know real reason is piracy, but if we ignore piracy such purchase doesn't make sense)
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 13:45 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 13:48 Post subject: |
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I wasn't trying to make a point that it would be a better or worse choice than buying a PS4. I was making a point that the $1000 bullshit is just that, let alone those $2000 claims you still get.
As for that system? I built that exact system about 4 months ago. FIFA 15 and ETS2 for example do 60 FPS just fine on it. I briefly tested BF4 and that was stable at 60 FPS with everything on high w/o MSAA.
It's not just one game, it's most games. There's only a handful of games that that system won't run well and in most cases that'll be down to the game, not the system. That 750 Ti is a whole lot more powerful than you might think. It won't sustain 60 FPS in every game, but in most it will and 30 FPS is not going to be a problem.
Want the proof? Check the channel that video on last page is from. The Potato Masher has been used to play Metro 2033, Mortal Kombat X, GTA V, BF:Derp, Shadow of Mordor, Black Flag and all other kinds of shit. In most of these that shitty little system is 100% on par with the PS4. But in some cases, it can easily run at twice the framerate. Generally speaking, most games can be run with high/very high (or ultra if the game has such a thing), with the exception of tessellation (which you don't get a lot of on PS4 either). That's the one thing that still rapes most videocards.
It even ran Black Flag at better framerates than the PS4. That game is utterly fucked on both the PS4 and the PC, it's unstable as hell, but it still ran better.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:13 Post subject: |
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Well YMMV on the parts obviously, the 760 isn't available for under €200 here. For around that money you can now get a 960 though 
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:20 Post subject: |
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sure, that 760oc is just an outlet offer, they want to get rid of their last cards. cheapest price otherwise is about 175 or so. still a reasonable investion compared to the 60% more power
anyone is getting a steam controller? maybe i would give it a shot buts its too expensive, was planing to go with new xone wireless when the pc receiver is out
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:26 Post subject: |
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yep steam controller is 54,99 euros in germany + 6,xx shipping... greedy bastards
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Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:27 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:31 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | "That PC is crap! Worse than PS4! Couldn't even run W3 on low!"
"Actually, is runs W3 better"
"That's just one game! System is still crap! My PS4 rox!"
"Actually, it runs every game tested better than PS4"
"u scrubs just don't understand how powerful my PS4 is and how crap your PC is!"
Should get this hilarity framed for my wall  |
That's exactly what I saw and I bet he won't even see himself and his hipocracy in those posts |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:34 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:43 Post subject: |
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valve could make so much money if they would sell a controller + the steam link thingy for ~80 euros together and with 2 controllers for about 100.
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 14:51 Post subject: |
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| Janz wrote: | | valve could make so much money if they would sell a controller + the steam link thingy for ~80 euros together and with 2 controllers for about 100. |
Well you can get the controller + link for £79.99, unsure what the EU price is.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24936
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 15:05 Post subject: |
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I thought I'd be the only one to say something like: they really outpriced themselves with that controller for me to get it.
I'm only comfy around the 30'ish price for a controller. Unless it's something special like a flightstick or a steering wheel. This is special... but not special enough for me to pay that price. :/
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 15:08 Post subject: |
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| Morphineus wrote: | I thought I'd be the only one to say something like: they really outpriced themselves with that controller for me to get it.
I'm only comfy around the 30'ish price for a controller. Unless it's something special like a flightstick or a steering wheel. This is special... but not special enough for me to pay that price. :/ |
Yup, same here. It's a bit too pricey for my taste. |
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 15:10 Post subject: |
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even the standardprice for the one controller is around 35 euros (+-2) and with discounts even cheaper. i see no reason to buy that overpriced steam controller shit, and what happens if you buy more than one steamcontroller? every one needs the usb dongle? or if you buy 4 controllers you have 3 useless dongles? not very smart from valve either way
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri, 5th Jun 2015 15:17 Post subject: |
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Your order contains the following items for shipment:
Steam Controller
Shipping Status: Pre-Order
Estimated Shipping Date: 16 Oct, 2015
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29147
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2015 10:01 Post subject: |
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Some impressions of GabePad:
http://devinandrewwhite.com/2015/07/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-valves-steam-controller/
| Quote: | | The end result is a controller that feels much more comfortable and familiar than before, but make no mistake: this controller is its own beast. The trackpads, the most defining feature of the prototype and the one feature that has come through with nothing but improvements, allow for a degree of flexibility beyond any controller I have seen before. |
| Quote: | Haptic feedback changes that. Tiny speakers in the controller shoot vibrations at your thumb when you move it around the pad, so you feel the difference between resting it in one place and letting your thumb wander across the pad.
And it really works. It is a bit hard to explain why, but my thumb never drifted off the controller or ended up somewhere it was not supposed to be. The feedback feels like I am manipulating a control rather than feeling a screen. |
| Quote: | The buttons each have a distinct squish to them that feels satisfying. The triggers and buttons along the handles all feel incredibly solid, and I have no fear that they will wear out after repeated use. I say this in full knowledge that the grip buttons are actually just a single piece of plastic that covers the batteries that fold out. That is a solution that feels like it should not work but oddly does.
The only time I felt uncomfortable using the controller was when I was only using the analog stick and buttons. Their placement at the bottom of the controller means my thumbs have longer to go to actually reach them, and the way the grips work, my thumbs feel like they have to go over and around the controller.
Unfortunately, there are a couple features missing. Mainly, the controller lacks anyway to connect a headset to it, so you will have to use a wireless headset or really long cord to play with that. |
| Quote: | Every single button, from the face buttons to the grips, on the controller is remappable. If you want to assign Reload to the Y button and Jump to clicking in the analog stick, you can do that for any game that has a Reload and a Jump.
However, that is only the beginning of the customization options.
You can also assign modifier buttons. So you can make the A button jump, right trigger + A button dodge, left grip + A button cast a spell, etc. The button combinations seem only limited by your muscle memory.
Furthermore, both trackpads can be played with to a ridiculous degree. Just as in the earlier prototype, you can make them act as a mouse or as buttons, but you can specify further than that. You can make them act as a D-Pad or as individual buttons. You can make them act as a mouse or as an analog stick. You can even specify what type of mouse you want them to act as. Do you think there is a real noticeable difference between a trackpad mouse and a trackball mouse? Well so did Valve, so you can put on trackball mode if you want. There is even an option for “stick mouse,” which I am still not sure what that is but you can choose it if you want.
And yes, there are a myriad of sliders and options to pick from there. You can change the sensitivity, sure, but if you think the haptic feedback is too much or too little, you can change it. You can add or take away friction on the simulated trackball. You can adjust smoothing or acceleration. You can make the simulated joystick have a linear or aggressive response curve. |
| Quote: | That means that it is also able to perfectly emulate an Xbox controller. In fact, it defaults to this for many games. Any game that supports that controller, you will not have to mess with at all.Valve even matched up the buttons on their controller with the buttons on your typical Xbox controller, meaning that for most games, there should not even be a noticeable difference in the UI.
Valve has included settings beyond that. In addition to presets emulating a regular controller, Valve has also included presets that should work with your typical WASD setup, meaning most FPS games should work with only minor fiddling.
In addition, Valve has allowed for hybridization of controller and keyboard setups. So if you want to play Borderlands 2 with the ease of a controller but the precision of a mouse, you can do that. Or say you were playing a game like Batman: Arkham Knight, and you like how it plays with a controller but want to assign a certain gadget item to a button not on an Xbox controller: you can do that, and the game will retain the UI and ease of using it like an Xbox controller. |
| Quote: | How it Plays
FPS Games
In short really good.
I played Team Fortress 2, Borderlands 2, Fistful of Frags, and even went old school with Star Wars: Republic Commando.* Here is my main takeaway from these games: technically, I feel like yes, playing with the Steam controller is not as precise as a keyboard and mouse. I know this should be the case.
But it did not feel that way.
Even when playing multiplayer, every death and every kill felt fair. I never thought, “Darn, if only I had a mouse and keyboard.” Sniping, in particular, felt like an improvement. Lining up shots by feeling your way over the target felt more natural than playing with a keyboard, though twitch aiming is undoubtedly not as accurate.
Playing older games like Republic Commando felt wonderfully modern with this controller. While finding a comfortable button configuration did take some figuring out, once I did, this became my preferred way to play.
And for the record, I went back and played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare,* which if you may recall in my previous post, I had difficulty unlocking the “Hardened” difficulty with the controller. Well, I did it with this one, so that says something.
Action Games
I tried to test out some more traditional action-y type games here, and I am happy to report and afraid to admit that my impressions here are going to be boring. In general, it just works fine because, for the most part, you will be using this controller like any other controller.
Playing Castle Crashers,* Towerfall Ascension, Super Meat Boy, and Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed* felt pretty much exactly like playing them with any other controller, with the added benefit of having a mouse pointer if you have need. So play those games with an Xbox 360 controller, and then you have a basic impression of how the Steam controller works with them.
This is so much more difficult than it looks.
I guess I should mention that Shank 2, which has dodging mapped to flicking the right analog stick, felt like an awkward motion to have on the trackpad, but that game does not even work well with the 360 controller, so I am not sure what to make of that. For the record, Mark of the Ninja, which is by the same people, works fine.
What is cool about this controller is that it works well with older games. Playing Psychonauts, which I had trouble figuring out how to deal with a 360 controller (I am sure there is a fix out there, but I could not find it), worked excellently with the Steam controller. Figuring out how to map movement to the analog stick and all the keys I wanted to the other buttons was a cinch.
In other words, if the game can be played with a controller, it can be played with the Steam controller. And more often than not, it is better that way.
Strategic Games
So what about those games that cannot work with a controller? How do they feel?
In general, fine. Shadowrun Returns was fine, as was FTL: Faster than Light and even Hearthstone.* What I found was that games that are turn-based or slower-paced have few problems with the controller. Finding menu options and selecting stuff across a screen should be a lot more cumbersome with a controller emulating a mouse than it actually is.
Shadowrun, for those that like their D&D with a bit of XCOM.
I feel like this should come with the caveat that the more time intensive the game is, the larger the divide will be between playing with the Steam controller and playing with a mouse and keyboard. Civilization V goes at a much slower pace than, say, Company of Heroes*, which means the former is a much more natural fit than the latter.
Playing Company of Heroes with a controller was actually really difficult for me. I had a hard time managing my troops, creating an effective strategy, and grasping the situation on the battlefield in general.
So in other words, I saw no discernible difference than normal.
Seriously, I did try playing that because I wanted to try playing an RTS, but I am in general terrible at RTS games. I sucked, but I honestly do not think my mistakes were made because of the controller. I had a pretty easy time selecting units and telling them where to go; I just kept sending them to the wrong places. At high levels of play, the kinds of which can get you TV deals in South Korea, there will definitely be a difference, but I am not sure at what point that happens.
For the record, after a very brief learning curve with Heroes of the Storm,* that worked perfectly with the controller, and that learning period was more about memorizing which button did what than it was dealing with the mouse controls.
The only game that I played that I thought, “Well this doesn’t really work,” was Magicka,* and again, that was more because of the button position than it was the mouse pointer. That game in particular relies on quick access to a lot of different keys in a way that feels more like typing than it does playing a game, so it struggled with being on a controller.
RPG
I also tried some RPGs. My main go-to MMO, Guild Wars 2,* took some finagling to create a workable control scheme, but it was not too long before I became comfortable killing centaurs from my couch. It felt pretty much exactly how I expected it to feel.
Killing Greek creatures is always a good time.
I spent a little time with The Witcher,* which worked okay. Combat was clumsy, but that game feels clumsy however you play it.
Torchlight,* a Diablo-esque RPG, felt fine. I find point and clicking to be an odd way of playing an RPG, and this oddness was exasperated by the fact that there was an analog stick right there that I so wish I could use because that seems to make more sense, but it did not feel any worse than using a mouse and keyboard in my opinion.
With Sid Meier’s Pirates!,* navigating around the menus and sea were fine, but the numpad controls were an awkward fit for the controller. I ended up using a combination of the analog stick and button pad to represent the numpad, but even though that was perfectly playable, it did stick out that the game was not designed with it in mind. |
| Quote: | Conclusion
If you read all of that, then you have probably noticed a common theme: I did have a good amount of awkwardness and some control issues with the games I played, but none of them were due to the trackpads. When it comes to emulating a mouse while also feeling like a controller, this controller is a resounding success.
My main controller issues were the issues that come when you try to play any PC game with a controller. Finding a control scheme that both has everything you need while also being comfortable and functional was sometimes difficult, but even with that, Valve has made it easy to re-assign keys and customize your settings to exactly how you see fit.
Biggest problem with playing PC games on a TV is not the controller, but the UI. Squinting at my TV to read small text is not great when you are in a multiplayer online game and there is vital information onscreen. However, with the amount of console games getting ported to the PC and PC games being designed to be ported, this issue was not frequent.
I feel like I should note that there are some small issues with the software behind the controller. Sometimes the Steam Overlay does not work, which means all edits to the controller have to be done by alt-tabbing to Steam or before the game started. This is what happened when I wanted to try out Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis,* which by all means should work fine with the controller, but the overlay has not worked with that game meaning testing it out is really difficult.
When the overlay does work, getting out of it usually means the controller stops working all together for a second or two, and finally, the controller does not play well with other Xbox 360 controllers. Have not been able to get the Steam controller and a wired 360 controller both working at the same time, though it does work well with a PS4 game for those games that support it.
Here is the bottom line on the controller: as a controller, compared to those made by Sony and Microsoft, it is the best controller I have ever played with. The amount of customization you get with the interface is mind-boggling, and the precision offered by the trackpad makes previously difficult tasks possible with the controller.
As a keyboard and mouse replacement, it is the best keyboard and mouse experience you will get without having an actual keyboard and mouse. I feel like I cannot guarantee that you will be able to play Starcraft II at Diamond League or Counter-Strike at a pro level, but I can almost guarantee that you will have fun trying.
The controller is now available for pre-order at $49.99. Considering that price point is right around the normal price of a controller, I feel confident saying that this will be a good value for consumers.
Still, Valve should be commended for doing an excellent job with this controller. I think people are really going to like it, even if they never actually get a SteamBox. |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2015 13:14 Post subject: |
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What about fighting games or games that rely extensively on the dpad? So many "previews" gloss over that and instead concentrate on mouse/trackpad and how it feels in FPS/TPS titles.
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29147
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2015 13:18 Post subject: |
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yep surprised to see no info about fighting games - this guy said that he didnt tried any and thinks its not gonna be that precise
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2015 13:19 Post subject: |
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I think it will be fine, the d-pad is embedded into the left pad, and I imagine it will feel reasonably natural - might take a little getting used to, but will probably be even more comfortable to use than a traditional thumbpad.
IMO of course.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Jul 2015 13:19 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | | yep surprised to see no info about fighting games - this guy said that he didnt tried any and thinks its not gonna be that precise |
Oh well, it's too expensive for me anyhow so it's not like I was even considering this. I'll keep waiting until a DS4 drops below £30  Regardless, thanks for the article link and detailed information - for most people it does seem like it's going to be a great controller 
| Kaltern wrote: | I think it will be fine, the d-pad is embedded into the left pad, and I imagine it will feel reasonably natural - might take a little getting used to, but will probably be even more comfortable to use than a traditional thumbpad.
IMO of course. |
It's not really embedded though, it's just a slightly recessed indentation, not an opposable or movable object. I just cannot see how a trackpad can ever be used comfortably, or accurately, for 2D movement.. certainly not precise enough for a fighter. What I'm seeing so far reminds me of this;
http://www.videogamemuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Turbo-Touch-360-Sega-Genesis-Game-Controller.jpg
http://ludopad.over-blog.com/article-35073672.html
The "turbotouch" controllers for SNES and MD.. and as someone that owned both on both systems, they didn't work. They really, really didn't work :\
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Either way, yeah, the EU price for the controller is disgusting and just shows how much greedier Valve are getting. No way in hell would I ever pay €60+ for a sodding controller, much less one that is unknown and doesn't have a dpad 
)
