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 Posted: Wed, 24th Jun 2015 12:40 Post subject: |
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When the game releases it'll be a pile of shit like Rome 2 and he'll make another video raging about it.
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Jun 2015 18:08 Post subject: |
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Hehe, he was mentioning the fucked up AI of Rome 2 several times in that interview. The hyped up developer lost his grin a bit during those, bahah...
What we know is that the "gameplay" shown was -highly- scripted, meaning no proof of improved AI to date.
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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 20:23 Post subject: |
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At first I was pissed about the trilogy, knowing you need to buy them all to get the full map and all the races available.
Then I thought about it, and if they are truthful about the pr-talk with regards to really making each race feel different, and have large unit rosters it kind of makes sense that they can't do all races and still make it ready for release on the same date (which I believe is just 2016 right now with no more specifics).
The main thing though is the AI and how well optimized the game is. Rome 2 looked like shit on my computer and it seemed to sacrifice visuals for fps even when players set ultra graphics.
The AI has been stupid in every Total War game and I don't believe for a second it will be better in Warhammer. I think even if it is only slightly improved, it will make the game ten times more interesting to play. It is always depressing when you know before entering a battle that you're playing versus a tin-can filled with vegetables. It poses no threat to you.
I'm interested in checking out the dwarves and the vampire counts for this first game.
The race I want to try next is in a later game of this trilogy, which is the elves.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Jul 2015 21:29 Post subject: |
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I'd hazard a guess that one of the two followups will be focused on High Elves vs Dark Elves, presumably with Lizardmen in the mix. Not sure who'd they put in as the 4th race in that.
The other one will probably feature Undead, with maybe Border Princes and Chaos Dwarfs?
Chaos will presumably feature in one of them, unless they plan on having them as a non-playable faction in every chapter. Although having them as non-playable would piss a lot of people off.
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| Posted: Sat, 4th Jul 2015 10:29 Post subject: |
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I thought the Undead was the vampire counts, but maybe they're similar.
Chaos seems to be the common enemy, yeah.
Still no news on the intervals between each of the three games.
CA says politics and diplomacy is in the game, but it doesn't run like a full sandbox sadly. They're gonna take into account the hatred between races, like for example the Greenskins and the Human Empire. You can't ally with them etc. I think that's bs. If a diplomacy system is going to work, anything should be possible if you a) played it right, b) happened to be lucky in negotiations.
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| Posted: Sat, 4th Jul 2015 11:33 Post subject: |
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| EternalBlueScreen wrote: |
CA says politics and diplomacy is in the game, but it doesn't run like a full sandbox sadly. They're gonna take into account the hatred between races, like for example the Greenskins and the Human Empire. You can't ally with them etc. I think that's bs. If a diplomacy system is going to work, anything should be possible if you a) played it right, b) happened to be lucky in negotiations. |
You got it wrong.
They stated explicitly that you can indeed establish an alliance between the Greenskins and the Humans, for example; however, due to their differences, it will be an uneasy one.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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| Posted: Sat, 4th Jul 2015 11:43 Post subject: |
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| EternalBlueScreen wrote: | | I thought the Undead was the vampire counts, but maybe they're similar. |
Vampire Counts are a bit different. They have undead units, but the "true" undead faction will almost certainly be based around Nagash as the leader and set in Khemri/Araby.
| EternalBlueScreen wrote: | | CA says politics and diplomacy is in the game, but it doesn't run like a full sandbox sadly. They're gonna take into account the hatred between races, like for example the Greenskins and the Human Empire. You can't ally with them etc. I think that's bs. If a diplomacy system is going to work, anything should be possible if you a) played it right, b) happened to be lucky in negotiations. |
No, it makes perfect sense. The notion of the Empire and Orcs forming any sort of diplomatic relationship is as likely as humans and xenomorphs doing so in the Alien universe. They are fundamentally opposed on every level. Orcs don't have a concept of diplomacy, even within their own society.
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prudislav
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Jul 2015 10:33 Post subject: |
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http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-heroes-quests-mounts-and-magic/
| Quote: | One thing is notable—the scale. There are hundreds of fighters on screen here. At a rough estimate, the cost of each of the armies would be at least a thousand pounds (if you bought it from Games Workshop rather than high-quality knock-offs), probably more, even with today’s plastic figures. Very few people play with armies this size anyway—playing the Total War version rather than buying the figures is definitely going to be more economical. And much, much easier to set up.
It’s certainly comprehensive. I was lost trying to count the number of different unit types on the battlefield. “There are still other units we haven’t put in to that particular battle,” Roxburgh says. “The amount of variety we have per race is just massive. Within any race there’s more variety than within the totality of any previous Total War game.” The units in this battle were a mix of the low- and high-tier units unlocked later in the campaign.
And that’s just these two factions. I’m well aware that at least two more are coming. The Vampire Counts are one of the undead factions, which has a variety of weak skeleton and zombie and superpowered vampires, all of whom are immune to fear and morale checks. Which is handy, given how many giant, scary soldiers the orcs have.
The other race is the Dwarfs, who are even more cannon-heavy than the Empire, with an array of gadgets such as gyrocopters and flame cannons alongside slow, tough warriors like the Longbeards and Trollslayers. Roxburgh explains: “there’s a smattering of other minor races, which we’re not talking about yet, but they occupy the world as well. There’s not just four different races and that’s all.” Bickham chimes in: “you can’t have a Warhammer game without Chaos. It’s the cornerstone of our IP. Khorneerstone.” There’s a groan |
| Quote: | Diplomacy might have to change from the old Total War model, given the lack of connection or communication between the Warhammer factions. “The nature of the Warhammer franchise is that there are certain relationships that you can’t see changing,” Roxburgh says. “Chaos and Elves for example. But in a sandbox environment, if you really work hard on it, there’s nothing to say you have to be at war with the Greenskins all the time, you might be able to broker some dubious peace temporarily—but that’s not something you just do run of the mill. We want to be true to what those relationships are, but we don’t want to pull people into a linear game where they’ve got no choice. It’s finding that balance, while maintaining that flavour.”
The campaign map, which they’re not showing today, will be something completely new to Warhammer, set in the Old World in a non-specific timeline. Writer / loremaster Andy Hall explains that, though turns pass, no real time does. There isn’t even weather. It’s like living in a perfect instant of Warhammer. “There aren’t seasons in the Warhammer world anyway. One day it’s raining teeth... the next, the sun’s under the sea.” |
| Quote: | Anyway, it’s in this timeless instant that you build units, presumably from your cities, though each faction will behave in a different way. “There’s a wider variety, not just in the tactics and unit rosters, but the way we use the features in the campaign game. For example, if you’re the Greenskins, you’re not going to be spending much time building, you’ll be fighting enough battles to build up enough momentum for a Waaagh.”
The Waaagh, for the Greenskins, is essentially the yobbish spirit of the race. As long as orc Warbosses are fighting battles, they get stronger as a force and individually, and attract more orcs to their cause—but pause from war and they’ll start fighting among themselves. “You’ve got this balance between building up this momentum, keeping the battles going, keeping the boyz excited, or suffering animosity,” Hall explains. In battle this is represented by Warbosses being able to call down a Waaagh, to give all their troops a boost of fighting spirit.
Every faction is differentiated like this. “We’re playing with each of the races like it’s an individual Total War game in its own right,” says Simon Mann, battle designer. “They are so diverse, we want to revel in that.” Similarly, they’ll have diverse tech trees, preventing you from just building an army of giants straight away. “You’ve got various building chains that develop as you go along you’ve also got technology. However, for some races that’s a very shallow part of the experience, for others it’s a very deep part of it.” I’d guess Orcs will be the former, Dwarfs the latter.
Yet more diversity comes in the faction’s reactions to morale. Leadership and routing has always been a huge part of the Warhammer game, fear and terror its bread and butter. Monsters, defeat in combat, spells—anything can make your troops rout. “The Comet of Casandora coming down on your head will make you run away quite quickly,” says Mann. “Of course, different factions react differently. The goblins have got no morale whatsoever, they’re going to break at the first sign of anything dangerous, whereas the Empire Greatswords will really be able to hold the line for you, with a big charge bonus they’re a real tank unit.” And the undead presumably suffer from morale differently—if the tabletop game is followed, I’d predict that instead of running away, they’ll progressively fall apart. |
| Quote: | he Comet of Casandora signifies one of Warhammer’s most notable additions to the Total War universe: magic. I see three devastating spells in use in the game. A goblin shaman uses the Little Waaagh to cast ‘Curse of da Bad Moon’ on a squad of Outriders and Pistoliers, summoning a randomly-moving vortex moon that wipes them out. Next I see an orc shaman casting ‘Foot of Gork’, a giant ghostly stamping orc god, which flattens the Empire’s lethal Steamtank and Luminark of Hysh. Finally, I see the Empire’s surviving Celestial Wizard call down in desperation the indiscriminately lethal Comet of Casandora, which wipes the battlefield clean.
Certain areas of the campaign map are more magical than others due to the varied winds of magic sweeping down from the northerly Chaos Wastes. This means that your wizards will go into battle with semirandomised mana pools, which regenerate over the course of the skirmish. This helps balance the wizards, which can be game-winners by themselves at tabletop level, but which are glass cannons here. “Balance is a very important part of what we’re doing,” Roxburgh says. “Yes, casters can do a lot of damage, but at the same time you’ve got to keep them safe.”
“In games like Dark Omen, the wizard was there to counter the fact that you were outnumbered,” says Mann, “whereas in our game they’re more of a support class. On their own, they’ll be isolated and killed. But when they’re in a big army and they’re supporting the main thrust of the tactics you’re using, that’s where their place on the battlefield really comes alive.” The Creative Assembly team still want this to be a Total War battle, where you worry about troop positioning, and they don’t want to lose that through micromanaging magic. “It’s the same as giant or flying creatures,” says Roxburgh “they’re another part of your toybox. We’re going to keep the micromanagement light.”
Wizards are represented in the game as Total War agents, alongside other heroes, of which there are three or four different kinds per faction. ‘Lord’ characters can be recruited to command armies. “They have a much deeper skill tree and you’ve got more flexibility to tailor them how you like,” Roxburgh tells me—they can be more melee based or more campaign based.” “There’s no concept of ageing or dying of old age. You’ll have most of them for a long period of the campaign game, so you’ll have more chance to specialise them. This Lord might be all about pillaging and looting, a cash cow if you’re the Greenskins, while this Lord might be focused on melee.” Customisable lords can die in battle. |
| Quote: | As they complete quests (see below) heroes unlock mounts and items. For example, a Warboss can upgrade from a chariot to a wyvern. Each race also has one or two Generals, legendary heroes of that faction, like Karl Franz or Grimgor. They differ from the other agents in that they can’t die—if these legendary heroes get injured they take a few turns in the wilderness then come back. Other Lords can be recruited to lead your armies when you’ve built up enough momentum in the campaign. And your normal heroes are agents, recruited in the age-old Total War fashion.
A hero’s placement on the campaign map affects their use in battle. “Your agents on the campaign map become your heroes on the battle map,” says Roxburgh. “Attach them to an army, and they come into battle as a single entity unit, like the Warrior Priest.” However, hero abilities will differ from traditional agents—there won’t be any WarriorPriests converting orcs to the worship of Sigmar.
Taking a leaf out of Endless Legend’s playbook, The Creative Assembly has included some of the Warhammer universe’s rich lore in the shape of quests. These enable your legendary characters to unlock unique items, new mounts and upgrades by following narrative in-game chains. “These are a series of missions that culminate in a quest battle,” Roxburgh explains. “It’s a way we can bring story and narrative into the game without breaking that essential sandbox dynamic. Players don’t have to undertake these quests, but if they want to unlock Ghal Maraz or a new mount, this is something they do.”
For example, the Battle of Black Fire Pass I’m watching is the final stage of Karl Franz’s quest chain to unlock the Hammer of Sigmar. (Warhammer nerds will know that the First Battle of Black Fire Pass was where Sigmar defeated Nagash, and that it’s the one place in the World’s Edge Mountains where the orcs can enter the Empire.) When you win these battles through the course of the campaign, you’ll be able to play them like traditional Total War historical battles.
It has to be admitted that Total War and Warhammer are things close to PC Gamer’s heart. Indeed, three of the five developers in the room with me are ex-PC Gamer writers, and all of them are old Warhammer players—like Mark Sutherns, the development manager. “A lot of the guys have come out of the woodwork, with loads of their miniatures. Now we have games, painting sessions at lunchtime. It’s really brought the studio to life...” On this evidence, there’s a good chance that they’ll bring the Old World to life too. |
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Jul 2015 14:45 Post subject: |
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Has there been any mention of a tentative release date? I seem to recall either this November or early next year.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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dsergei
Posts: 4059
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Thu, 9th Jul 2015 15:28 Post subject: |
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I don't mind the Winds of Magic mechanic. You don't want magic users being too dominant.
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prudislav
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2015 15:54 Post subject: |
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dsergei
Posts: 4059
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2015 16:49 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | I don't mind the Winds of Magic mechanic. You don't want magic users being too dominant. |
I agree but I don't want them to be random either. They should be powerful but limited and vulnerable.
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2015 16:56 Post subject: |
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Sounds like it will be pretty much the case, certainly in maps further north towards the Chaos Wastes. And presumably the Vampire Counts will rely fairly heavily on magic. I don't know what version of the rules they are using as a basis, but last time I played, around 6th edition maybe, undead required constant spamming of Vanhel's Danse Macabre for them to be of any use.
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dsergei
Posts: 4059
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Mon, 13th Jul 2015 17:48 Post subject: |
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Yeah, the main problem they have is that you kinda want to use your Vampire Lords in battle since they are super powerful warriors and good wizards and have really good powers and gear. But you can't afford to lose them at all since your army loses all mobility and many units become useless.
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 00:37 Post subject: |
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| dsergei wrote: | | Yeah, the main problem they have is that you kinda want to use your Vampire Lords in battle since they are super powerful warriors and good wizards and have really good powers and gear. But you can't afford to lose them at all since your army loses all mobility and many units become useless. |
I fail to see a problem with that.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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dsergei
Posts: 4059
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 09:08 Post subject: |
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It's the way it is balanced points-wise. Vampire Lords are super expensive, but you sort of have to take them because there are no other options - there are no vanilla ranged units, infantry is weak (but they have super mobility and get replenished by magic and powers) and the whole army needs someone with Lore of Vampires to even function properly.
In general it is very weird to have your main support (it's not even support - your infantry is poop without them and suffer wounds when they die) units be some of your main melee fighters that often charge into battle on their own and have to kill units to utilize their strengths. There are many random mechanics in WHFB and you can lose them easily.
In high point games you can have a decent melee Lord and a Necromancer but then the Lord feels underwhelming and this sort of defeats the purpose of playing VC.
They also nerfed some of the movement augment bs DCB mentioned in the 8th edition.
TL:DR VC are quite strong but not very versatile. You have to play a certain way with minor variations.
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 10:18 Post subject: |
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I thought VC was an odd choice for the first game (or at all to be honest). I'm surprised they didn't go with Skaven as the other evil faction. Either someone at Creative Assembly has a hardon for undead/vampires, or that was pretty much the only option based on a map centered on the Empire.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 10:24 Post subject: |
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Problem with this game is it is almost custom-made for ludicrous DLC - it's bad enough in the real world, but this? I remember Dawn of War with it's expansions, and as i recall, this was fair enough as a lot of content was added.
But this? I can imagine the ingame Store reading like the shelves of GW, with similar pricetags...
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prudislav
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 10:29 Post subject: |
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well from what i understood the DLCs will be similar to other TW games - aka some subfactions?/unit packs and they promised two big expansions which will expand the world map and adds whole new factions (i pretty sure Chaos will be in one of those)
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 11:11 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | | Problem with this game is it is almost custom-made for ludicrous DLC |
Maybe for multiplayer, but I can't see it for single player. Not full factions anyway. Maybe a couple of inconsequential unique units or something for SP, but that is nothing new for a TW game. As per the thread title, it's split into 3 games like Starcraft 2. The first game is Empire/Dwarfs/Orcs/Vampire Counts. As I speculated in a previous post, the second and third games are likely to feature High Elves/Dark Elves/Lizardmen/???? and Undead (Tomb Kings)/Skaven/????/????. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not Chaos will be a playable faction in single player. I can see them not making that an option. Who does that leave as potential factions? Bretonnia, Chaos Dwarfs, Wood Elves is pretty much it.
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LuckyStrike
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 14:52 Post subject: |
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They should´ve gone first for the more classic Empire+Dwarfs VS Orcs, skaven and some undead, and leave the more "exotic" for expansions IF the game is a sucess.
Edit: That demigryph animation seems quite good, though.
| Epsilon wrote: | | Meanwhile the people of that generation will call those guys relics, and not move with the times when everything is auto fucking. |
| EyePatchLives wrote: | | Press X to tame beasts. YOU ARE DA BEASTMASTER!!! |
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| Posted: Tue, 14th Jul 2015 15:09 Post subject: |
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| LuckyStrike wrote: | | They should´ve gone first for the more classic Empire+Dwarfs VS Orcs, skaven and some undead |
Aside from the Skaven, that is what they are doing.
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prudislav
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| Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2015 15:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2015 16:14 Post subject: |
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Y no blood? 
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Fri, 17th Jul 2015 16:46 Post subject: |
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I'm very well aware of that, it was a rhetorical question only.
Still, the trailer looked lame-ass without at least some blood splashing all over the place. Too sterile.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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LuckyStrike
Posts: 1753
Location: Somewhere in the Portuguese Colonial Empire
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jul 2015 02:34 Post subject: |
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| r3dshift wrote: | | Y no blood? |
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!
Wait... Wrong millennium 
| Epsilon wrote: | | Meanwhile the people of that generation will call those guys relics, and not move with the times when everything is auto fucking. |
| EyePatchLives wrote: | | Press X to tame beasts. YOU ARE DA BEASTMASTER!!! |
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| Posted: Sat, 18th Jul 2015 05:33 Post subject: |
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