|
|
| Page 3 of 5 |
Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
|
 Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 18:10 Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know if I have the stamina to write my opinions on this topic, but there's one person who I think never should've been a moderator, and that's Jenni. I've already previously stated why (several times), and my opinion about that hasn't changed.
Secondly, I think there should be clearer directives and less personal opinions regarding why the mods moderate the way they do. Sometimes you see thread after thread of racial-bullshit passing by unattended, and then suddenly when someone says something in a thread about ... what do I know... eh, the weather... they're suddenly banned for racism.
Or when person A starts to harrass people who disagree with his point of view... and suddenly person B, C, D & E replies back to say: "WTF! You're so full of it"... the mods ban person C & D, and let the others slide.
Also, it needs to be clear when someone is receiving a warning. For instance, a reply from a mod in a thread might be: "OK! Calm down! Or I will start banning"
WHO is supposed to calm down? Is it the guy who last wrote? Who? Sometimes it's not obvious when a mod has decided someone is out of line, and then everyone feels as if they've done something wrong. Clearly point out the individuals (preferrably in a PM, eg: "You're out of line in -this thread- calm down, or we'll ban you")
Sometimes it's better to warn before banning, that way the person who wrote <whatever message> has a chance to explain himself, and also know what the mods see as inappropriate behavior. If he then continues it, he's doing the same thing, despite after being warned that that type of behavior isn't tolerated, and then should be banned for a longer amount of time.
My general criticism is that the mods need to be consequent in the way they do what they do. If every different mod has his own style of treating an issue, there will be reactions... people will react by thinking they got treated unfairly.
I've felt that, from time to time. There can be a thread in the gaming-section full of absolute bullshit off-topic flamewars about protection A vs. solution B, and then I step in and say: "Fuck! I get banned for going off-topic, and flaming in <another thread>, and here's a thread full of off-topic flaming, and it's entirely unnoticed", after which *I* get flamed by a mod, get a PM with: "You should stfu, and report instead of writing in the thread" and the thread goes on in the same direction, until Aphex clears it all up.
And the ridiculous part about this, is the fact that I've reported that thread, and several other's like it, and still get the same: "Report the post, don't write in the thread".
When you see this occuring, you get ticked off.
Perhaps this forum is too damn big, and the mods are too damn few? I don't know. Maybe you should have a thread where people could nominate people they'd like to see as mods... sort of like the Oscar's, and then let the forum members vote.
Then the current mods pick... say, the top 5 of that list, and vote among themselves, and then elect two or three of them. Give them clear directions, and we wait and see what happens?
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 18:14 Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with Fisk on the warning people thing, although I do realise there are times when a quick ban is the best approach, depends on the situation I suppose. People should certainly get a "PM slap on the wrist" from time to time just to make things clear.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 18:16 Post subject: |
|
|
well said fisk.
Pm-ing people with warnings does happen, but at a minimun rate. i agree that it needs too be done more often.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 18:18 Post subject: |
|
|
which mod edited my post AGAIN. You know it's true yet u leave out yet more valid points. well done give urself a big pat on the back 
in reference to the pm thing.. you need to make them more noticeable i.e. a big red square when a new message is there.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 18:23 Post subject: |
|
|
Plz mods, don't edit people's replies. Like its said earlier by apex, no ban or warning will be applied here.
Fair and honest replies/opinions plz.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 19:18 Post subject: |
|
|
| ApeX PredatoR wrote: | so actually we're not doing a bad job, but just make the wrong choice every now and then. That's not so bad then.
|
No it's not that, it's that some of you are doing a good job, and other mods arn't. Maybe these people are referring to all the mods in one collective when they say that. Because some of the mods are doing a 'bad job'.
I mean, as a whole I think the moderation on this site is quite good. But certain mods...
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 19:28 Post subject: |
|
|
| Sublime wrote: | | I'm failing to see where she helped out 'exceptionally'. she didnt stand out as a helpful person at all only the 'only female on the board at the time'. Syn has been around longer, helps out more, is more respected, isn't biased etc. etc. |
I agree with this statement. I believe, had someone named "Benni" behaved the same way Jenni did, (apart from explicitly stating she was a woman), "Benni" would never in his whole life on these forums had been elected as a mod.
Why do I say this? Well, I believe there is no smoke without fire, and it becomes so blatantly obvious when she's also a woman.
-However-, this isn't why I do not approve of her as a moderator. Sometimes people get mod-status on (appearingly, to me as a regular 'no-clue' [to what goes on behind the scenes] member)) random whim.
My main criticism on Jenni is that she on several occasions, repeatedly banned people on a personal agenda, and was very outwardly abusive and self-contradicting (Banning my man Syco for saying "Paki", whilst saying in another thread that: "People from India are filthy" ...etc. , implicating they're lesser beings, and inforcing this with: "THEY ARE! IT'S A FACT! OMG! YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE!".
I could, to a certain extent, tolerate this from a regular member. But -never- from a mod. As a moderator, you're representing the ideals of the forum (eg. the rules). If you can't do that, then you don't deserve to be a moderator. Period.
It just looks so silly when a moderator starts flaming people for flaming. Hypocritical behavior imho. Syco argued for his cause, and presented a solid argument for why he used the shortened "Paki", explicitly saying: "I have -nothing- negative to say toward their nationality" ... and I believe him. It's not like he's always attacking cultures left and right (like eg. HaschBiff), you have to take into account the way he's been behaving previously. Had he oftenly, and clearly expressed himself in a derogatory manner toward other cultures, then I would've agreed with the choice to ban him. But fact is he did -NOT-.
With this in mind, I see another flaw in the way Jenni moderated. She usually seemed to target SycoShaman for a period of time (around that time), which made it rather ... appropriate, for her to ban him for "racial slur", which to everybody except Jenni, and the few mods that supported her on her decision, was NOT an issue of derogatory nature towards race, culture, or whatever.
In fact, history seemed to indicate that Jenni got annoyed with Syco, and then focused on him, and whenever she could find ... whatever reason, she harrassed him.
And fact is, she's done the very same toward several other members (including me (which, I know, makes me a somewhat dubious [biased] source on this matter, but I think I'm objective enough to say this any way)).
With this in mind, I think she's unfit as a moderator of these forums.
---
I have some appraisal to give too. I think [mrt], Aggressor, skidrow and Apex* PredatoR have done a damn fine job. And, despite disagreeing on many issues, I like MAD_MAX333 too, a lot of this is due to the fact that you guys are fair and square. AND you listen to the feedback we give, and act accordingly. I think it's -clearly- noticeable that you're interested in keeping nforce.nl as good at it gets, without throwing everyone out that doesn't think, or argue, the way you do.
Fact is, MAD_MAX333 really gets on my nerve when he jumps at me in some threads, lastly he claimed I counter-argue just for the sake of arguing, and I really got pissed.
What makes him a good moderator though, is that he doesn't let this opinion of his influence his "work" as a moderator. Where he would just write his opinion (toward me), Jenni would ban me, and write "Idiot" as a ban-reason (really fucking informative? Eh?).
I think I've written enough for now.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 19:58 Post subject: |
|
|
good points good points... i like threads like this, it shows how people sees out actions... sometimes, we do things and think NOTHING of it, while our small action could have pissed someone off badly...
in regards to jenni, i believe a lot of people started picking on her JUST because she was promoted to modship and hence this left a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people her actions went under the microscope... honestly doing you "job" as a mod under than sort of situation is VERY hard.. i mean it is hard to please everyone as it is and now add the fact that people are unhappy that you became a mod in the first place and you have cause for a lot of problems...
I remember when I became a mod people started going nuts too about why i was becoming a mod and for a while I was doubting myself and just refused to ban people and would rather pm and warn people just so I don't mess up and piss people off.... so in this regard i give jenni ALOT of credit for have the ahem balls to stand up for what she thinks is right...
sublime I edited your reply, be a little more respectful you could have put your comment ALOT of other ways but yet you rather throw the word "pussy" out there... immature.
currently we are deciding what to do with inactive mods... and to decide who really is considered inactive or not... i mean when i the last time any of you saw jbrow post around here??? but in the private forums he has posted a couple of times in the past week or so...
some of us want to demod the older mods and give them VIP status, yet others want them to keep the mod title and just have their powers removed.
I personally believe, we should make a thread anonymously or not and see who the people think is not here ever, and then us people in the staff can compare that to what those mods do back stage behind the curtains and demod them and hire a few new people... i think skidrow is killing himself to make syn a new mod and i think we are all happy with him but we are waiting to fix all this inactive mod situation before adding anyone new.
Last edited by MAD_MAX333 on Sat, 19th Nov 2005 20:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 20:00 Post subject: |
|
|
i'm not killing myself to make syn a mod 
you have a better person in mind too do the job 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 20:19 Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | in regards to jenni, i believe a lot of people started picking on her JUST because she was promoted to modship and hence this left a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of people her actions went under the microscope... honestly doing you "job" as a mod under than sort of situation is VERY hard.. i mean it is hard to please everyone as it is and now add the fact that people are unhappy that you became a mod in the first place and you have cause for a lot of problems... |
Had she started out to be a good moderator, we wouldn't have had the oppurtunity to "pick on her". The thing is; she made a lot of very bad decisions, and those where the ones that left a bad taste in our mouths.
This is the line of events:
1. We thought she was a bad pick for a mod.
2. You said she weren't.
3. She confirmed the fact that she was a bad pick for a mod (by her behaviour).
4. We had a bad taste in our mouths.
NOT this way:
1. We thought she was a bad pick for a mod.
2. We picked on her, because this was a bad choice.
3. We had a bad taste in our mouths.
It's the behaviour from her that leaves us with a bad taste in our mouth, nothing else. The causality of that makes her a less-liked moderator.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:16 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:17 Post subject: |
|
|
I also think you'd find the very DAY she was made a mod I pointed this out in the site feedback (i think) unsurprisingly the topic was locked and possibly deleted (I cant be arsed goin all the way back lookin for it) within a day or 2.
Like i said I don't care about being a mod. I dont even want to be a mod but for you to give her it when she was also argumentative [this is before she was a mod... which she continued throughout] (imo) and obviously not the best candidate i.e. syn. You'll prolly say i'm nit picking but like i said; it's my opinion.
No mod is perfect but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:21 Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't make fisk.. me u syco mut or injurious mods (as well as others obviously). I say syn because he's reasonable and a lot more helpful than us. I also believe he has more to contribute other than a simple banning of requesters + locking download threads, which is pretty much the task of the day lately.
edit: no syn aint my other account check the IP's 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:36 Post subject: |
|
|
| fisk wrote: | | It's the behaviour from her that leaves us with a bad taste in our mouth, nothing else. The causality of that makes her a less-liked moderator. |
I think it's not just that. People were jealous of her because she became a mod so quickly. Some of us could not understand why she was picked. She was a short time member at that time, she was helpful but not more than others like syn for example. Her being a female certainly was a criteria for making her a mod, even though this will never be admitted. You are right that her behaviour in some situations in the past leaves a bad taste. That and her sudden nomination is the reason why she is not one of the most popular mods like skidrow, Apex and Agressor for example.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:41 Post subject: |
|
|
When you say we're jealous, you're assuming that everyone wants to be a mod. They don't.
Being a moderator equals a lot of hard work, and basically nothing else. You sure have "power", but it's power that is only usable within the bounds of the rules, so your "power" isn't anything else than making sure the rules are followed.
She didn't follow the rules herself, hence - bad taste.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 21:47 Post subject: |
|
|
Of course not everyone wants to be a mod, but it was pretty obvious at that time that some members were jealous of her.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 22:05 Post subject: |
|
|
| AnimalMother wrote: | | Is syn your other account or something? |
I wish I was as cool as Sublime ! plus, no offence taken with your previous comment.
As for the "anti" Jenni comments, as much as I was a little supprised she became a mod so quickly, she proved herself to be a good choice soon after. I certainly wouldnt say she does a bad job! She does what some mods wont, even if it means leaving a bad taste, I think the forum needs that. We can see over the past few weeks other mods have taken the same "my way or the highway" approach and I do belive it helps the forum, there is a need for hard fast action when it comes to the PC Games and Newbies forum, they're currently out of control, and it needs to be stamped down before it gets so bad it CAN'T be controlled.
At the end of the day I have no beef with any mods, I do think there are a few mods who are not around as much as they used to be, or at all for that matter, but we ALL have personal lives to contend with. Either way, Im sure that if new mods are needed, they will be chosen based on the right credentials, not on who the users think will be better.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 22:26 Post subject: |
|
|
| [sYn] wrote: |
At the end of the day I have no beef with any mods, I do think there are a few mods who are not around as much as they used to be, or at all for that matter, but we ALL have personal lives to contend with. Either way, Im sure that if new mods are needed, they will be chosen based on the right credentials, not on who the users think will be better. |
True words, true words.
Btw speaking of Jenny where is she currently?
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 22:45 Post subject: |
|
|
lol skidrow loves you syn... can't stop talking about you lol...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Esel_Gesi
VIP Member
Posts: 3802
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 23:02 Post subject: |
|
|
| [sYn] wrote: | | At the end of the day I have no beef with any mods, I do think there are a few mods who are not around as much as they used to be, or at all for that matter, but we ALL have personal lives to contend with. Either way, Im sure that if new mods are needed, they will be chosen based on the right credentials, not on who the users think will be better. |
Spoken like a true diplomat. 
Personally I have never really done anything to provoke a ban except in that week where Razor1394 was around enforcing sig rules. I got a warning then  So I don't have the ill temper toward any of the moderators that some of you do. Althoough I do agree that a mod being biased against someone because they do not agree with some things they say is total jackassery. Anyway, In my opinion, on the whole the mods are doing a good job. Where some lack the others pick up the pieces. If I see a request or a rule being broken or whatnot I'll report it and it gets taken care of. Granted I dont browse the PC Games forum as much as I used to but when I do I see that It does need to be cleaned up a bit. A lot of protection talk and flaming going on. The only thing that can clean that up is a more strict moderation policy in that forum. This, of course, will take more time and effort for the moderators, in which case it might be a good idea to recruit some trusted/dedicated members as moderators.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Nov 2005 23:36 Post subject: |
|
|
| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | | lol skidrow loves you syn... can't stop talking about you lol... |
hey, if we need another mod, it would be him so........... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005 00:11 Post subject: |
|
|
Damn....far to much to reply to...but, as for that initial big post by fisk, I totally agree. Well said man
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005 11:06 Post subject: |
|
|
| JeanPerrier wrote: |
well i am with voodoo child because its been so long since i last saw him post |
I didnt have internet @ my chambre in ghent untill this friday :/
this means I had no internet from sunday till friday for like the last 2 months
and believe me, it's more frustrating for me than for you
just my two cents
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005 12:20 Post subject: |
|
|
| Voodoo-child wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: |
well i am with voodoo child because its been so long since i last saw him post |
I didnt have internet @ my chambre in ghent untill this friday :/
this means I had no internet from sunday till friday for like the last 2 months
and believe me, it's more frustrating for me than for you
just my two cents |
really, dus ge zit op kot daare? interessant. ik zit ook gans de week in gent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005 18:00 Post subject: |
|
|
HEY. I don't understand 
Anyway, I'm very glad I stirred something up here. I think the community as a whole needs to have their opinions expressed <and> I've never respected fisk more than I do now. I've always liked you fisk for your outward expression of your opinions, and as a person who is known to do the same, I cheer you.
Now, as far as myself is concerned (as I've noticed some people saying that people have been saying the moderation on a whole is good), I do believe on a whole that the moderation here is good, maybe even lower on the scale as 'tolerable'. Fisk said it when he said that some are doing a good job and others are not. The good ones have to pick up the slack for the bad ones, and this isn't just not fair to the mods, but the community as well. Let's look at revamping the staff, maybe changing the way things are done and give everyone a nicer time.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Sun, 20th Nov 2005 20:27 Post subject: |
|
|
revamping the staff, that's a point of discussion in the team for a while now...stay tuned for news any time soon now.
| Injurious wrote: | | And then Mabel tripped over a rock and landed in a well and was trapped there with Timmy. Sadly I shot Lassie so no one is saving that bitch! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 3 of 5 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
 |
|
