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 Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 15:07 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | | Glore wrote: | Just to clarify:
The kickstarter ended Nov 2012 and actual development began in Feb 2013. What they have done in 3 years, where they for the most part have been a really small studio, is not laughable to me atleast, it's pretty astonishing to be honest.
And the bad performance in the PU are because the game still uses most of the default cryengine networking code, the current networking code will update all players on the server with what every other player/ai and objects are doing which will lead to poor performance because the gameclient will still process that information even if you are 150km away from the action.
They are refactoring the network code to not sync everything to everyone, that will give most people a performance boost.
(all of the above info can be found on their website or yt channel if you really cared about the game and/or are interested in it's development). |
Naive. Very naive, and an example of the sort of person that RSI like to attract.
Before you can even get on Kickstarter, you need to have a working prototype. SC was in development roughly 2 years BEFORE the kickstarter project was launched. That means the game has been in development for longer than 5 years.
Now you have to understand, the regular, non-zealots who backed the game are pissed about a number of things, but only one thing in particular; the obvious greed and manipulation of the gullible.
Anyone can promise a game. A good team could produce a good space-sim. Frontier created a very barebones game, and arguably is still being developed, which really means it isn't actually finished. But, it IS playable, and it does have a fully working sim running in the background. Performance is exceptional, and nothing is especially broken (apart from a few missions).
On the other hand, SC has been in development for probably the same amount of time. It has raised way, way more than Frontier, promised the earth, and in 5 years of development has produced nothing but a brief arcade game, and a tech demo which doesn't run on anything affordable.
Squadron 42 has not even had a smidgen of a demo, unless you include the incredibly limited training level.
Simply put, too much was promised, and not enough has been done. It doesn't matter what PR shite they pull, with their weekly videos of smug faces telling you how your 100million has been spent, oh but can we have some more please, here's some concept art you can buy for another $2000. If you can't show a working, functional model of something you've been working on for such a long time, more and more people are going to become dispondent.
And as for Smart, and the goons? That's entirely RSI's doing - instead of being open and honest about the project, they've tried to cover up all negativity instead by deleting posts, openly refuting provable issues, and making anyone who disses the project out to be clueless.
Another game had this issue - Project Cars. And we all know how THAT turned out. And they followed the same PR techniques. That's how SC will be remembered. For a half-finished game, released in permanent beta, with constant 'updates', full of bugs and missing content promised 5 years ago - all while Star Citizen II will be announced, and can we have another $100million because our coffee machine has broken down. |
| Kaltern wrote: | One day I'll learn to never unignore people just to see what they said  |
Seriously. It's unbelievably yummy with Assus on ignore, everything is just that much more <3
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 15:49 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
I don't believe I've even mentioned Wing Commander.
I mentioned Privateer - which was very much like Elite - and very much like Star Citizen. Yes, it was made with the WC technology - but it wasn't Wing Commander. It was called Wing Commander Privateer to profit from the massive success of Wing Commander.
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My mistake - I forgot I edited my post. My original post said I wanted a new Wing Commander type of game and that this game was going to be more like Elite mixed with Eve instead so when you said I probably was looking for Elite Dangerous, I assumed you connected WC with Elite.
But yeah, it's clear he's going more for a Privateer approach but I'm not sure he'll get there. It's much better to have a very polished core game than add too much and see it wobble along. Rough diamonds can be fun games (Vampire Bloodlines for example) but sometimes they end up being a little too rough to enjoy (anyone remember Boiling Point?).
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 16:29 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
I don't believe I've even mentioned Wing Commander.
I mentioned Privateer - which was very much like Elite - and very much like Star Citizen. Yes, it was made with the WC technology - but it wasn't Wing Commander. It was called Wing Commander Privateer to profit from the massive success of Wing Commander.
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My mistake - I forgot I edited my post. My original post said I wanted a new Wing Commander type of game and that this game was going to be more like Elite mixed with Eve instead so when you said I probably was looking for Elite Dangerous, I assumed you connected WC with Elite.
But yeah, it's clear he's going more for a Privateer approach but I'm not sure he'll get there. It's much better to have a very polished core game than add too much and see it wobble along. Rough diamonds can be fun games (Vampire Bloodlines for example) but sometimes they end up being a little too rough to enjoy (anyone remember Boiling Point?). |
I don't think making a polished core game without any of the vital technology to expand it is a smart way to start out.
The problem is that all the work you pour into it will have to be constantly reworked as you expand the technology. This isn't a game where you can just add the essential technology as you go along - because every part of the game depends on that essential technology.
That's why Elite Dangerous will always be extremely limited in scope - and why every feature they implement is so barebones and, frankly, boring.
What you're suggesting is to create a gigantic ambitious game piece by piece - which would defeat the entire point of the experience. Almost like doing a huge open world in episodic fashion.
I hate that kind of approach - and I know from extensive experience with games that take it that the playerbase will dwindle long before the game gets anywhere near what's originally promised - and everything will slowly be reduced in terms of scope and ambition until it's kept on life support for the remaining few.
Exactly like what's happening with Elite Dangerous - where people started out saying it was the best thing ever and now hardly anyone is talking about it, except the core fans that will never be able to sustain the kind of economy needed to expand the game sufficiently.
What CIG has elected to do instead - is to start out by doing ALL the hard work and simply dealing with the massive challenge from the very beginning. They're doing that while building the company AND while all the armchair designers are second-guessing every single decision and whining about how a tiny fraction of the experience - in an ALPHA state - has a lot of issues.
I feel confident it'll pay off - and thankfully the game has a lot more supporters than detractors.
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 16:46 Post subject: |
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Correction:
Yes, making a polished core game without any of the vital technology needed for the full vision IS a smart way - if we're talking short-term business and the vision isn't really the focus.
It's a great way to generate short-term cash - but a horrible way to develop a hugely ambitious game like Star Citizen.
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 17:11 Post subject: |
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Just gimme a private server that feels like 1% of what Freelancer was and I'm good.
Couldn't give a fuck about the rest.
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 17:13 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
What you're suggesting is to create a gigantic ambitious game piece by piece - which would defeat the entire point of the experience. Almost like doing a huge open world in episodic fashion. |
Except ... that X3 proved that it can be done. You create the universe, the ship combat, basic trading, and then you expand more and more until you got a very complex game that is balanced. That works because you use stepping stones - you first put up a solid foundation that works and plays well and then you expand on it. The IDEAS they have aren't bad, but trying to implement them all at the same time is a recipe for disaster.
In the history of gaming, not a single game that I know of has ever successfully combined so many different elements without screwing up in half of them. You nearly always got rough diamonds at best, and a buggy or unplayable mess at the other end.
If I had to think of one single game that perhaps succeeded at marrying many large elements, then it would be Star Control II and that was back when games were a lot simpler to make.
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 17:13 Post subject: |
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| sTo0z wrote: | Just gimme a private server that feels like 1% of what Freelancer was and I'm good.
Couldn't give a fuck about the rest. |
Mark my words, private servers will be cancelled before release.
| red_avatar wrote: | | Even Boiling Point was a little too rough for many - remember how many patches it needed for the hilarious bugs to go away? I couldn't even run it without crashing every 10 minutes at the time. And yeah, the sequel was even worse. |
Oh I don't doubt it, the game was a MESS.
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 17:44 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: |
Naive. Very naive, and an example of the sort of person that RSI like to attract.
Before you can even get on Kickstarter, you need to have a working prototype. SC was in development roughly 2 years BEFORE the kickstarter project was launched. That means the game has been in development for longer than 5 years.
Now you have to understand, the regular, non-zealots who backed the game are pissed about a number of things, but only one thing in particular; the obvious greed and manipulation of the gullible.
Anyone can promise a game. A good team could produce a good space-sim. Frontier created a very barebones game, and arguably is still being developed, which really means it isn't actually finished. But, it IS playable, and it does have a fully working sim running in the background. Performance is exceptional, and nothing is especially broken (apart from a few missions).
On the other hand, SC has been in development for probably the same amount of time. It has raised way, way more than Frontier, promised the earth, and in 5 years of development has produced nothing but a brief arcade game, and a tech demo which doesn't run on anything affordable.
Squadron 42 has not even had a smidgen of a demo, unless you include the incredibly limited training level.
Simply put, too much was promised, and not enough has been done. It doesn't matter what PR shite they pull, with their weekly videos of smug faces telling you how your 100million has been spent, oh but can we have some more please, here's some concept art you can buy for another $2000. If you can't show a working, functional model of something you've been working on for such a long time, more and more people are going to become dispondent.
And as for Smart, and the goons? That's entirely RSI's doing - instead of being open and honest about the project, they've tried to cover up all negativity instead by deleting posts, openly refuting provable issues, and making anyone who disses the project out to be clueless.
Another game had this issue - Project Cars. And we all know how THAT turned out. And they followed the same PR techniques. That's how SC will be remembered. For a half-finished game, released in permanent beta, with constant 'updates', full of bugs and missing content promised 5 years ago - all while Star Citizen II will be announced, and can we have another $100million because our coffee machine has broken down. |
You mean the techdemo Roberts made himself with a couple of others guys and showed during the kickstarter, none of which was actually used later on? Yeah, that probably took more than 2 years to complete....
If you actually were interested in the game and it's development, you should have known this.
Man, the pessimistic attitude and hatefulness of some people on this forum certainly is astonishing.
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 17:52 Post subject: |
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@Glore
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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harry_theone
Posts: 11225
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 18:52 Post subject: |
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| Glore wrote: | | Man, the pessimistic attitude and hatefulness of some people on this forum certainly is astonishing. |
Better go to NeoFAG then where you can hold your hands and play with teddybears, don't forget to prehurrdurr Star Pitizen 2 btw.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 18:57 Post subject: |
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I wonder how anyone having gamed that long can refrain from being pessimistic 
Maybe when we were young our visions about gaming were as big and unreal as Roberts visions on SC. 
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 19:15 Post subject: |
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Plenty of people disagree with me and that doesn't make them cult members. Obvious cultists defending everything to do with this project and shooting down *anyone* who disagrees for *any* reason? Yeahhhhhhhh... kind of speaks for itself.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 19:18 Post subject: |
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Hatefulness? 
Seriously, it's not hate I am feeling, is grave disappointment, tinged with sadness that I will never see the game I originally paid money to back. And I have the absolute right to feel that way.
It's not me with the hatefulness - it's the hordes of cultists, who, like so-called Islamic State, hate all those opposed to their great vision.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 19:21 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | | And I have the absolute right to feel that way. |
No you don't, you hateful hater full of hatefulness. How DARE you question the processes of our True Lord and Saviour?
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 19:22 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Kaltern wrote: | | And I have the absolute right to feel that way. |
No you don't, you hateful hater full of hatefulness. How DARE you question the processes of our True Lord and Saviour? |
I thought you said 'the Princess our Lord and Saviour'
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =- |
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harry_theone
Posts: 11225
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 20:18 Post subject: |
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As for hatefulness - I'm not sure that's what we're dealing with. More like jaded ignorance and people being too lazy to care.
Not particularly rare. I'm guilty of that myself sometimes.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 20:50 Post subject: |
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| harry_theone wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | | Kaltern wrote: | | And I have the absolute right to feel that way. |
No you don't, you hateful hater full of hatefulness. How DARE you question the processes of our True Lord and Saviour? |
Right, isn't it?! Fuck your opinion Kaltern, this is not what this thread was made for!
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Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =- |
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sTo0z
[Moderator] Babysitter
Posts: 7449
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu, 31st Mar 2016 21:58 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | sTo0z wrote: | Just gimme a private server that feels like 1% of what Freelancer was and I'm good.
Couldn't give a fuck about the rest. |
Mark my words, private servers will be cancelled before release. |
I keep expecting it everyday, haha.
I can see it all now, it'll start by and slow and increasing silence on the matter, then company reps refusing to comment, then conspiracy and a rep saying it's still on the table, but still refusing details, then more time goes by on silence, then an announcement that they've refocused to ensure delivery on other important areas.  |
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| Posted: Fri, 1st Apr 2016 00:29 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | | Seriously, it's not hate I am feeling, is grave disappointment, tinged with sadness that I will never see the game I originally paid money to back. And I have the absolute right to feel that way. |
I felt the same, but then tried this latest 'demo' and now I KNOW it's not going anywhere when I see how little effort they invested into the actual game compared to the effort invested into the website and the hangar module and the ships..
Unfortunately, I did try to ask for the money back as I feel ashamed to participate in this blasphemy/scam any longer, but they straight out rejected it.
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| Page 189 of 274 |
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Sadly, your analogy of "too rough to enjoy" definitely applies to Boiling Point's sequel *and* spiritual successor.. White Gold (Xenus 2) and The Precursors. Both were just... no... too rough.
