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 Posted: Tue, 26th Apr 2016 18:40 Post subject: |
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| Janz wrote: | | whats spectacular about a new generation of amd cards is close as fast as a highend card of current gen nvidia one year after its release? right -> nothing. and the pricetag of 300bucks is just illusionary. 400+ it will be |
Why the fuck would AMD sell their best Polaris 10 chip for $400? It's supposedly 232mm² die size chip. It'd be a ripoff to sell it for that much. I realize that it's new fab process and all, but still with such a small chip yields should be pretty good and even $300 is pretty high price tag, considering it's almost half a size of GTX 970 die size....(232mm² vs 398mm²) and it won't even have HBM1 - in which case it would make sense to have higher price to recoup R&D cost of HBM.
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| Posted: Tue, 26th Apr 2016 18:44 Post subject: |
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In a recent interview Raja Koduri said people will be very pleased with the pricing of the upcoming GPU, so 300 or not they definitely intend to target a price/performance sweet-spot like they used to. Something around 400 doesn't sound so far fetched.
In any case, it's the competition that will be driving the price anyway.
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 10:01 Post subject: |
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If they release near 980Ti performance for 300 dollars, they absolutely will destroy their own sales, Fury cards will be pretty much useless after that, no one will buy those, doesnt make any sense, you can always keep dreaming guys. Also if it would be somehow 300 dollars, that would translate like to 499 euros in here, absolutely retarded prices in here Finland lately -.-.
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 12:55 Post subject: |
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| Breezer_ wrote: | | If they release near 980Ti performance for 300 dollars, they absolutely will destroy their own sales, Fury cards will be pretty much useless after that, no one will buy those, doesnt make any sense, you can always keep dreaming guys. Also if it would be somehow 300 dollars, that would translate like to 499 euros in here, absolutely retarded prices in here Finland lately -.-. |
Naw let's make it 539€ at least, but hey, here's a free code for The Division! 
I might just order from Germany again, even the 970 is still what, 400€ here?
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 13:24 Post subject: |
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A GIGABYTE G1 Gaming Edition 970GTX costs 359,95€ so far after the product list weekly updates where i live at (sometimes changes a tiny bit for good or bad).
The XTREME edition costs 423,95€ thou
I'm talking about RETAIL SHOPS though, NOT ONLINE BUYING.
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 15:24 Post subject: |
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I think P10 will be similar to 390X overall, which is very close to 980Ti in DX12 currently. P10 will be just half the TDP of 390X. Perhaps if FinFET 14nm turns out to be good for overclockability it will make it closer to 980Ti non-OC performance in DX11, something R9 390(X) would be capable too if it was as good for overclocking as Maxwell.
This is pretty much what I expect Raja meant by sweetspot for mainstream. 390X (which launched for $429) level performance for $250-$300 which they can do due to such a small die size. This combined with fact it's very efficient makes for a really good card for the masses.
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Stige
Posts: 3548
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 15:52 Post subject: |
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What makes you say 390X doesn't overclock aswell as Nvidia does?
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| Posted: Wed, 27th Apr 2016 16:35 Post subject: |
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I don't have any "official" statistics of course. It's just my guess based on people experiences with overclocking - my card is really bad, so I searched how others' cards are overclocking and in my opinion, there just aren't that many people who can push it past 1100 on core without any artifacts.
And even if there are, if we compare Maxwell vs Grenada/Hawaii toe to toe, with Maxwell (GTX970) base clock being 1050MHz and Grenada (R9 390) base clock being 1000MHz, the percentual overclock of Maxwell is much higher even if we compare your overclock (1200MHz) versus some of the better overclockers of GTX970 (1500MHz or more).
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| Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2016 07:52 Post subject: |
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Im not believing this 300 dollar 980ti performance AMD bullcrap at all (maybe in some AMD own benchmarks where they test out some AMD gaming evolved title), just doesnt make any sense. Polaris 10 is supposed to be "Mainstream" desktop card, and performance like 980Ti certainly aint mainstream, okay its 1 year old card, but its still absolutely best single card out there. Polaris 10 is still using GCN, dont think this new version will bring any radical performance bumps compared to previous iteration of GCN, its also made with that 14nm process which is pretty expensive (overclocking could be good). Also seeing AMD market share of GPU´s right now, i dont think they can afford selling 300 dollar cards that are as fast as their top end cards that costs half more right now  .
If this is somehow true, i will buy 4 of them to my rig, would be nice to get 4x more power with same cash (what single Titan card has cost from Nvidia for long time now).
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| Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2016 18:43 Post subject: |
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Look guys, this is called "technological progress". Performance goes up, price stays at same or lower levels. This is the reason why we don't pay 300$ for 9800GTX levels of performance in 2016.
I fully expect AMD to deliver GTX 980ti like performance for 300-370$ with die shrink from 28nm to 14nm (which is huge btw). Raja Koduri promised "most revolutionary jump in performance so far. " and that's precisely what AMD needs to regain market share and stay afloat.
If they don't deliver they are as good as dead. Just look at AMD quarterly earnings, this company needs a serious offering for its customers.
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| Posted: Thu, 28th Apr 2016 20:25 Post subject: |
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Anyone with basic knowledge in economics should be able to realize, that it's more than idiotic to sell your product for that much under value.
Let's say cheapest 1080 Ti at release will cost ~650€.
Now let's assume AMD really developed suddenly such a good chip. Than even a price of 500-550€ would sell their cards like crazy.
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
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| Posted: Fri, 29th Apr 2016 23:48 Post subject: |
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What I expect from AMD is 15-25% more performance than 980ti with some healthy improvements in power consumption at about same price than 980ti.
Nothing revolutionary but a substantial evolution.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Sat, 30th Apr 2016 01:27 Post subject: |
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maybe next year with vega, but by that time a 980ti is fucking old
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Slizza
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Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat, 30th Apr 2016 21:47 Post subject: |
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Assuming the rumors regarding Polaris and Pascal are true, aren't AMD going to have a giant PR disaster on their hands if they don't even try to compete with 1080/1080Ti in the high-end segment for like a year? Nvidia PR is going to destroy them by hammering the point that they have the best performing cards on the market.
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| Posted: Sat, 30th Apr 2016 22:06 Post subject: |
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They do have Pro Duo to compete... Doesn't make sense for them to come up with yet another product just yet before HBM2 is ready for mass production. Also those that keep buying high end cards like 980 Ti are likely going to wait for now until HBM 2 is going to be released (for 1080 Ti and AMD Vega) rather than upgrading right away to 1080 with GDDR5(X).
Anyway if they come up with really good card for midrange with great price/perf ratio it'll be far better than trying to have fastest single chip card in the world that <2.0% are going to buy.
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Stige
Posts: 3548
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 10:47 Post subject: |
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But Pro Duo will be shit in majority of the cases cause of dual GPU garbage. I don't think it's valid for any competition at all, apart from benchmarks..
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ragnarus
Posts: 686
Location: Somewhere in Warsaw Pact
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 10:55 Post subject: ... |
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Well when Maxwell came out it was still quite a great jump. GTX 970 performance was almost equal to 780ti(and in next months driver updates made it even more even performance wise).
So what is realistic in my opinion is 1070 performance being more or less equal to 980ti and 1080 being at least 20% faster than 980ti. What I am concerned is the prices, cause somehow I dont believe 1070 will cost the same as 970 after launch which was like 300 dolars(?) I am afraid its going to be more like 400 or more for 1070.
Only hope is in MAD making something really good that will result in small price war in this 300-400 dolars segment... But I stopped holding my breath for MAD long time ago.
btw. If someone thinks MAD will come up with something really good and on par with i5 3570k he must be MAD just like them 
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 11:05 Post subject: |
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It's sad how over the last 5-6 years the prices for GPUs keep rising. Especially for a nice midrange card and if you want to max most graphic features.
For example the 560 Ti was ~220€ back then. Now those kind of cards start at 300€.
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 16:11 Post subject: |
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| Stige wrote: | | But Pro Duo will be shit in majority of the cases cause of dual GPU garbage. I don't think it's valid for any competition at all, apart from benchmarks.. |
it is garbage, costs much more than 2 fury x and is slower
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Stige
Posts: 3548
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:04 Post subject: |
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| Janz wrote: | | Stige wrote: | | But Pro Duo will be shit in majority of the cases cause of dual GPU garbage. I don't think it's valid for any competition at all, apart from benchmarks.. |
it is garbage, costs much more than 2 fury x and is slower |
But Fury X doesn't have the memory to do 4K, barely even 1440p.
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JBeckman
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Stige
Posts: 3548
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:31 Post subject: |
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Proof about dual GPUs doing that? I doubt it.
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JBeckman
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:37 Post subject: |
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Each chip accesses a 4gb portion of the ram dedicated to that chip. The other 4gb is a mirror.
Google it. It's been a long long standing issue with multi gpu.
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Nui
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:37 Post subject: |
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That surely applies for 2 GPUs, but can you address both cores of a sandwiched dual gpu in dx12?
@ slizza
that long standing issue is addressed by dx12 and the like
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Stige
Posts: 3548
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:40 Post subject: |
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Well that is just shitty then if even dual GPU cards have that issue.
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Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sun, 1st May 2016 18:41 Post subject: |
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Sorry JBeckman, you posted while i was typing a message.
Nui. If a DX12 game implements it. Wich is none of them so far afaik.
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