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 Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 18:40 Post subject: |
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On the other hand, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 18:58 Post subject: |
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| pillermann wrote: | | The reason TT limits army sizes is mostly because table size is limited, as is time. Moving all those units back and forth manually is tedious as fuck. RTS don't have this problem, so they can strive for massive battles. |
Not true. With Epic, for example, you trade depth for scale. Warhammer 40,000, the original, has always been about tactics first. The entire rulebook is based around that, with advantage gained by tactics. You cannot have such micromanaged tactics at the scale of Epic. It's always a tradeoff between depth and scale. You cannot have huge scale and micromanage the tactics of each unit or company. I do not wish to trade the depth I had in DoW2 for some stupid large scale pewpew fest where you just spam click click click like an asshole. You have StarCraft 2 for that crap, where even the units can pass through each other, because developing actual physics is too hard, and might anger the retarded fanboys who like to spam.  |
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 19:01 Post subject: |
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| guvna wrote: | | THE EMPEROR PROTECTS! |
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Famou
Posts: 713
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 19:06 Post subject: |
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Awful graphics. Loved DoW 1 soulstorm etc. Hated the tyranids and shit in 2. Wish they did more with the necrons. That commander was badass.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 19:37 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | pillermann wrote: | | The reason TT limits army sizes is mostly because table size is limited, as is time. Moving all those units back and forth manually is tedious as fuck. RTS don't have this problem, so they can strive for massive battles. |
Not true. With Epic, for example, you trade depth for scale. Warhammer 40,000, the original, has always been about tactics first. The entire rulebook is based around that, with advantage gained by tactics. You cannot have such micromanaged tactics at the scale of Epic. It's always a tradeoff between depth and scale. You cannot have huge scale and micromanage the tactics of each unit or company. I do not wish to trade the depth I had in DoW2 for some stupid large scale pewpew fest where you just spam click click click like an asshole. You have StarCraft 2 for that crap, where even the units can pass through each other, because developing actual physics is too hard, and might anger the retarded fanboys who like to spam. |
Well, you need high unit counts if you want to implement armies such as the Tyranids or Zerg. Small-scale squad tactics are better suited for turn-based games, RTS favor epic clashes of massive armies.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 19:45 Post subject: |
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But DoW2 was RTT and it worked out great. You don't need a high unit count for every race, you just need it for tyranids which rely on that as they have weaker units but higher numbers. I agree with LeoNatan, Warhammer 40k shouldn't be a click fest, it should focus on tactics.
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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 20:09 Post subject: |
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Yep, DoW2 was more about having a proper counter for a given unit and microing each squad, not steamrolling a huge blob through the map.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 20:25 Post subject: |
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Where the fuck are my Necrons, you fuckers?
| Quote: | | In aid of this, some close detail has been sacrificed so Dawn of War 3 can shine in large-scale encounters, and Relic's artists have taken more inspiration from the colourful paint jobs of the tabletop game. It's a step away from the dark doom-laden tone of the fiction, and the game looks fantastic in motion. |
Sounds awful. Why even make a 40K game if you're not making it as grimdark as humanly possible?
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 20:47 Post subject: |
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Those features sound very nice.
But let's wait for some gameplay videos, if the actual game will be nice too.
Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 20:49 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | http://www.pcgamer.com/dawn-of-war-3-inside-relics-biggest-rts-yet/
So the game is turning into the 40k version of Starcraft 2 or CoH with some new additions to hide the obvious goal. |
Wouldn't go that far. SC2 was a cookie-cutter copypasta of SC1. This is still aiming much higher. |
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 20:54 Post subject: |
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The trailer's fine, the screenshots are utter CRAP! Like a fuckin' SC2 reskin.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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Nodrim
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LeoNatan
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 21:27 Post subject: |
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I did. Sounded nothing alike.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 21:55 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | I did. Sounded nothing alike. |
But... but... orbital laser cannon! 
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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Guyver
Posts: 2221
Location: Bunga-Bun... err Italy.
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| Posted: Tue, 3rd May 2016 22:14 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | I did. Sounded nothing alike. |
exactly.
the game gonna be like CoH2+ a decent angle camera + wh40k |
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jackbomb
Posts: 2534
Location: Tortilla de patatas
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| Posted: Wed, 4th May 2016 08:00 Post subject: |
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Lol people looking at concept art and talking about bad graphics. Somewhat ironically, I guess that is actually an endorsement of how good the concept art is though.
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JackQ
Non-expret in Derps lagunge
Posts: 14185
Location: Kibbutznik, Israel
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| Posted: Wed, 4th May 2016 08:12 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: |
Wouldn't go that far. SC2 was a cookie-cutter copypasta of SC1. This is still aiming much higher. |
Sorry,but anyone who consider SC2 as "SC1 copypaste" literally don't know what he is talking about.
SC2's MP's core based on that in SC1,there is no deny about it,when you are talking about Fast-paced,and focusing on making the races as different as much as possible.
However,I can list whole day the changes they made for the "Core" gameplay,like bunos damage for X unit to Y,they also repalced almost half of the enitre units in the game.
Lets take the Protoss for example:
They have now warping-in ability,which allow basically the player to basically teleport units(while "training them") to the opponent's base,as long he manage to "sneak" Psionic power field,while Psionic field did existed in the previous game,it was just to powerup protos's buildings,nothing more..
In SC2 it's also for creating units at specific location on the field,and can change the outcome of the game dramatically.
It's almost like saying that CS:GO is 1.6 copy paste.
"Fuck Denuvo"
Your personal opinions != the rest of the forum
Last edited by JackQ on Wed, 4th May 2016 08:42; edited 3 times in total
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Wed, 4th May 2016 08:33 Post subject: |
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psh, csgo WISHES it was a copy/paste of 1.6...
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 4th May 2016 09:16 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | I did. Sounded nothing alike. |
Colorful, lots of units and a focus on micromanagement, base building. I don't mind this shit in the singleplayer campaign, but this will carry on to the multiplayer.
Base building, massing armies and heavy micromanagement should remain for games of that sort like Starcraft 2. By design these mechanics don't even work properly in these games since they lack the exactness of arcade strategies. There aren't exact hits or exact damage in Relic games which comes from their RTT roots and the focus on tactics. Why the hell abandon that? It's not like the game is going to become the next Starcraft and there are enough base building strategies out there.
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| Posted: Wed, 4th May 2016 11:32 Post subject: |
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| JackQ wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: |
Wouldn't go that far. SC2 was a cookie-cutter copypasta of SC1. This is still aiming much higher. |
Sorry,but anyone who consider SC2 as "SC1 copypaste" literally don't know what he is talking about.
SC2's MP's core based on that in SC1,there is no deny about it,when you are talking about Fast-paced,and focusing on making the races as different as much as possible.
However,I can list whole day the changes they made for the "Core" gameplay,like bunos damage for X unit to Y,they also repalced almost half of the enitre units in the game.
Lets take the Protoss for example:
They have now warping-in ability,which allow basically the player to basically teleport units(while "training them") to the opponent's base,as long he manage to "sneak" Psionic power field,while Psionic field did existed in the previous game,it was just to powerup protos's buildings,nothing more..
In SC2 it's also for creating units at specific location on the field,and can change the outcome of the game dramatically.
It's almost like saying that CS:GO is 1.6 copy paste. |
I've once had almost the exact same argument with a friend and I still think what he said is a load of bull. Sure, there are hundreds of changes in little details, new/changed tactics etc., but the fact remains, the core gameplay is almost a carbon copy of SC1: same three races, built on the same basic principles, with the same resources, same focus on base-building, same way of controlling the units and so on and on and on it goes. Is it the same game? No. But it's as close as it could get without being accused of that. The "groundbreaking" changes you list all are but negligible for most people who aren't serious/hardcore SC/SC2 players, IMO.
Personally I couldn't help but feel dissapointed. I expected an evolution along the lines of Warcraft 2 -> Warcraft 3: more races, different gameplay mechanics (even if I didn't neceserilly like every one of them). What I got was a glorified reskin with gameplay from 15 years ago and a badly written story.
As for DOW3 - I liked the trailer, but I'm not sure about the game itself. WH40k without Chaos seems a bit... I don't know. Lacking? Like chocolate cake without the chocolate, I suppose 
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konkol84
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jackbomb
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barash
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