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Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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 Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 06:09 Post subject: |
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| Godlikez* wrote: | Imo marriage is the act of committing yourself to each other+God and having kids and leading a life that is intended to be beneficial to our evolution as a species.
I see single sex marriages as a joke in all honesty. |
I do think there are couples with a man and woman who decides not to get married and still decides to have kids and live to dead to them apart.
Marriage is overrated these days.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 06:50 Post subject: |
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| Godlikez* wrote: | Imo marriage is the act of committing yourself to each other+God and having kids and leading a life that is intended to be beneficial to our evolution as a species.
I see single sex marriages as a joke in all honesty. |
Oh piss off.. lol
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pancake
Posts: 1091
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 08:58 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | "b)
Marrige is a thing made up by humans... (The church) .. if 2 gay people want to be together then no one else has the right to tell them not to.. |
and thats why i have no problem with gays calling it what ever they want, its a church/religion thing which i dont agree with
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 09:03 Post subject: |
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i dont care about the marriage, id rather not have it. but one thing that pisses me off is gay couples adoption rights. If you were so stupid as to marry another man if you are a man and didnt figure out that fucking in the as doesnt bring forth children you shouldnt be allowed to adopt one either. I mean think about it, if you are a male kid and you grow up with gay parents how will the kid feel, it will feel fine, when he has a boyfriend.
to summarize its gross to see two men kissing in public, but ok you cant do anything about it but when they start to mess with other people just for theirs sake. like adopting thats wrong
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pancake
Posts: 1091
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 09:24 Post subject: |
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 18:54 Post subject: |
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I couldnt give a rats arse.
If two people want to get hitched then so be it.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 18:59 Post subject: |
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fine by me, as long as they are called "Butt-Buddies"
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 19:12 Post subject: |
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Someone may need to explain to you what a lesbian is.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Tue, 20th Dec 2005 20:47 Post subject: |
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| JeanPerrier wrote: | | I mean think about it, if you are a male kid and you grow up with gay parents how will the kid feel |
I forgot, all kids in non-gay parent relationships feel just fine.
Weren't you the kid that whined about your parents only just recently?
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 02:14 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | Unfortunatley Syco, "marriage" now'a'days is hardly what I would call "sacred". What's the divorce statistic today? 1 in 2 marriages ends with divorce or something like that (at least in the US. Not sure internationally). Marriage is more "convenience" than "sacred". 
My personal opinion on the matter, I don't mind. However, they shouldn't go so far as to force everyone to acknowledge it. Legally they should be treated as equals, true. But, let people form their own opinions on what to think of them.
As far as reserving the word "marriage" to hetro couples, its simply a word. Don't get too worked up over it. You made the example of Holiday Tree vs. Christmas Tree right? Whether its called A or B , its still what we know it to be right? A tree put up in December. Call it what you want. If they want it to be considered marriage, than fuck, let them call it what they want. My 2 cents anyway. |
I know what your saying still...but fuck dude, why do I have to change mine and my country's beliefs and opinions to suit a group of ppl? Do straight males or females receive special shit because they are straight? Or, in the issue of the christmas tree - would I go anywhere in the mideast (cuz sadly, its mostly arabs that complain about it, round here anyway) and ask THEM to change for me and my friends/countrymen? right there, treason and a hanging or something along those lines.
Its that type of shit that pissess me off, enough with the fuckin embracing everyone else.
As for marriage being sacred. Well, to me it is. I'd still be with my exwife if she didnt break it off you know? When I said my vows, I really did mean them, like 200%. When i tell someone some heavy shit like that, I only say it if I mean it.
Like when you pick up chicks at the club and shit - sometimes you get those ones who want to tell you they love you when your fucking, I never say it back...I dont throw those things around like that. and love and marriage go hand in hand
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Godlikez*
Banned
Posts: 2722
Location: In Your Illusions
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 02:55 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | why do I have to change mine and my country's beliefs and opinions to suit a group of ppl? |
You almost make it sound as if change always is bad, man. Or do you think that the crusades of old were sanctioned, and all other deeds in the name of God, and traditions of the bible should be followed to the exact phraze?
Your country does not have the right to enforce belief, nor do they have the right to oppose it. Religion is freedom, and anyone who chooses to have a different interpretation of the faith has a right to do so.
There are so many different viewpoints on how to interpret the holy writings of faith, as there are faithful followers. There is no shared heart or mind in terms of seeing the truth of faith, but there are common goals. Believe me, SycoShaman, those goals are not to prevent people who love eachother to call their relationship "Marriage".
The people that wrote down the Bible were people. And in all truth, people are fallable. Or do you think that shedding the blood of your cow makes your crops grow better? Or whatever similar writings and practices are commonplace in some parts of the world that practice Christianity in some form or another.
I'm in no way religious, but I don't see how forbidding love, and the definitions of it can be the way of any religion.
Remember how you felt for your wife, SycoShaman. Right now, somebody with similar faith to yours loves someone equally as strongly as you did. Would you deny them the right to Marry, because they were two women? And what sort of society allows this? A religious one?
I think this line of reasoning only perpetuates ignorance, my man.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 03:15 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | why do I have to change mine and my country's beliefs and opinions to suit a group of ppl? |
You almost make it sound as if change always is bad, man. Or do you think that the crusades of old were sanctioned, and all other deeds in the name of God, and traditions of the bible should be followed to the exact phraze?
Your country does not have the right to enforce belief, nor do they have the right to oppose it. Religion is freedom, and anyone who chooses to have a different interpretation of the faith has a right to do so.
There are so many different viewpoints on how to interpret the holy writings of faith, as there are faithful followers. There is no shared heart or mind in terms of seeing the truth of faith, but there are common goals. Believe me, SycoShaman, those goals are not to prevent people who love eachother to call their relationship "Marriage".
The people that wrote down the Bible were people. And in all truth, people are fallable. Or do you think that shedding the blood of your cow makes your crops grow better? Or whatever similar writings and practices are commonplace in some parts of the world that practice Christianity in some form or another.
I'm in no way religious, but I don't see how forbidding love, and the definitions of it can be the way of any religion.
Remember how you felt for your wife, SycoShaman. Right now, somebody with similar faith to yours loves someone equally as strongly as you did. Would you deny them the right to Marry, because they were two women? And what sort of society allows this? A religious one?
I think this line of reasoning only perpetuates ignorance, my man. |
Naw your wrong still man. Dont compare religion to marriage. Cuz seriously, enforcing religious dogma is seriously wrong, no matter what book your pushing.
Marriage on the other hand, is a shared amoungst the religious and non religious.
And yeah, certain things make Canada what it is. We are very liberal and accepting, but this is Canada and we have certain traditions. Thats what it means to be Canadian - or in your case, Swedish right. See what im saying?
Its like me going to a muslim state and asking my neighbours not to pray at 5am or whenever they pray in the morning, because it disturbs my sleep...thats not cool.
And yes, if 2 ppl of the same sex wish to enter into a union with one another, then fine by me - and yeah, equal in respect to marriage, just not considered marriage...like common law wife shit, but with more meaning and feeling obviously. |
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 04:08 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | Naw your wrong still man. Dont compare religion to marriage. |
Marriage comes from religion, from faith. To ignore that, and at the same time say that traditions should be enforced is just contradictory bordering on hypocrisy.
| Quote: | | Marriage [...] is a shared amoungst the religious and non religious. |
Yes, there are also legal ways to marry. Marriage is something that, in later times (our times) have become commonplace, and a matter of legality. These -changes-, which I spoke of (you seem to misunderstand me, purposefully - or not) is what makes us who we are. Traditions change too, marriage is just one of them.
| Quote: | | And yeah, certain things make Canada what it is. We are very liberal and accepting, but this is Canada and we have certain traditions. Thats what it means to be Canadian - or in your case, Swedish right. See what im saying? |
Being a Canadian sure has common factors, but to think they're fundamentally intersubjective (shared in the same way) is to delude yourself. Being a Canadian, and prioritising certain traditions isn't necessarily the same for every Canadian.
No, what you're saying has nothing to do with "being Canadian", you're just using this now as an excuse, really, to impose your belief on someone else. I think you're doing a pretty shameful thing. And that's -my opinion-. Do you think that I, or anyone else for that matter should be able to forbid you to have your belief?
If you don't, then don't try to forbid others to have other beliefs than you.
| Quote: |
Its like me going to a muslim state and asking my neighbours not to pray at 5am or whenever they pray in the morning, because it disturbs my sleep...thats not cool.
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That is a pretty bad analogy. These people aren't trying to change what you believe. They're trying to practice -their- faith, and you're arguing that you should be able to prevent -them- from practicing theirs.
| Quote: |
And yes, if 2 ppl of the same sex wish to enter into a union with one another, then fine by me - and yeah, equal in respect to marriage, just not considered marriage...like common law wife shit, but with more meaning and feeling obviously. |
I think that you're self-righteous here man. Nobody can change your beliefs but you. Just because some people of the same sex can marry, doesn't make it so you must change your beliefs. Belief is private man, and just because you happen to love someone of the same sex, doesn't mean that you should be forbidden to practice it, or be treated differently by the law, or church.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 15:59 Post subject: |
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As long as I don't have to pay more in taxes for gays to get married then what the fuck do I care????
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Saner
Posts: 6877
Location: Uk
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Dec 2005 16:11 Post subject: |
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Awaits Princess Tony intoducing "gay" tax.
| ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Dec 2005 01:08 Post subject: |
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@fisk
| Quote: | | That is a pretty bad analogy. These people aren't trying to change what you believe. They're trying to practice -their- faith, and you're arguing that you should be able to prevent -them- from practicing theirs. |
Nono, i dont mean them coming here and worshiping...Im saying if i were to go there and ask them to change.
And yeah man, changing a tradition of a country is changing what i believe.
U make it seem like Im some stubborn guy. You should know im not and im open minded. I dont want to or do force my beliefs or even opinions on people.
But, from what i recall seeing on the news and talking to different people, the majority of canadians feel the same way about gay "marriage"...its a union, equal to marriage in all respects...but it shouldnt be classified as a marriage.
Im not saying that your wrong man, cuz u are right in what u say...but your taking what im saying outta context. I dont want to forbid anyone from loving or sharing a inimate relationship, its just somethings should remain unchanged, like the term "marriage" - only applies to hetro couples.
Good debate tho
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z00mer
Posts: 94
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Dec 2005 02:28 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: | | I mean think about it, if you are a male kid and you grow up with gay parents how will the kid feel |
I forgot, all kids in non-gay parent relationships feel just fine.
Weren't you the kid that whined about your parents only just recently? |
No, mother + father don't always make the ideal parents. But imagine going through elementary, jr. high, and high school with gay parents. Your social life would have gone to hell before it ever had a chance to begin. As fucked up as regular parents can be, I don't think anyone should be subjected against their will to growing up with a gay couple and having gay ideals/morals shoved down their throats.
Not because they are inherently worse, or better, but because everyone else around you was raised in a different environment. You would be alienated by default, and there's a much higher likelyhood of you being homosexual IMO. Not to mention that gay marriages are an as-of-yet untested phenomenon. Imagine growing up with a single dad who wears makeup, comes home with guys, and takes it up the ass. In a world where that is considered disgusting, it's bound to traumatize.
So, get married? Whatever. Just let people make their own opinions. Call it gay union, let ppl call it gay marriage if they want to.
Adopt kids into the middle of all that? fuck no.
That's my opinion, anyway.
Edit: Before you call me ignorant, I'm merely recognizing and pointing out existing stigma and its probable influence on people who never chose to be in that situation in the first place. Yes, there's a chance that the stigma will change and certain individuals will be better growing up with gay parents than being tossed around foster homes, something I also view as an abhorrent practice. But do I see an actual realistic chance as of this day for a child to grow up and go through the public school system and other social interactions required by pre-college children without having his/her self-esteem shot down by immature assholes because of having gay parents, no.
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