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Nodrim
Posts: 9583
Location: Romania
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 Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 09:11 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | | I love the consumer guilt culture surrounding this though, especially when it comes to being lied to. |
Consumers might garner a little more sympathy if they weren't complete fucking morons that show repeated patterns of retarded behaviour. I agree that advertising laws need to be improved and developers/publishers should be brought to task for obvious false advertising (not that fines are anything more than a slap on the wrist). But even if that happened globally, I doubt it would amount to anything much. People would still preorder and buy season passes in a mad frenzy. |
Let's put it this way. In what other domain are you penalized for buying goods in advance? If you buy a toaster and it's not respecting its specifications, you just deal with it? Pre-orders are sketchy, but lets blame this for the right reasons. The problem with pre-ordering video games should be that you are buying a type of product where much of the quality is dependent on artistic components, a product that might not deliver in because not everyone has the same level of artistic orientation and art is subjective anyway. That should be the risk of pre-ordering, not the risk of getting a product which doesn't come with the advertised content or has technical issues that make it unplayble.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 09:48 Post subject: |
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Angry Joe is a borderline retard populist, but he's quite right about this turd of a game.
I don't know why the consumer is supposed to be responsible for the lies and deceit of the marketing campaign.
I mean, it's one thing to exaggerate the good parts of your game, but it's quite another to literally lie about features that are obviously going to make people extra hyped, like multiplayer and PvP.
It's amazing this Sean Murray guy hasn't been sued by someone yet.
I think this tops Aliens: Colonial Marines - both in terms of stonefaced lies and the end result being that much worse than what the developers clearly promised.
For my part, I never cared about this game - as I heard it was going to be all procedural by a small team back near the announcement - so I realised that no matter what they did with it, it wouldn't be my kind of game.
However, I must say I'm slightly amazed at just how hollow the game really is. I mean, it's nothing but a painfully shallow grindy crafter with shocking amounts of drone-like repetition.
The most amazing thing of all, really, is the amount of hardcore fans and their level of denial - and their desperate attempts to justify their pre-launch hype.
"I'm still enjoying it and having a blast."
Oh, the wonders of being in denial like a 2-year old 
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:11 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
I guess it all boils down to how much you can get out of procedural content.
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Well, I can tell you they did achieve a lot of variety in environments and wild life with their procedural approach. So it all boils down to if you enjoy pure exploration or not. I understand for many people it's just not enough.
Still, it's sad when you realize the huge potential this had to be so much better, which the devs just lied about and in the end didn't deliver.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:15 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
I guess it all boils down to how much you can get out of procedural content.
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Well, I can tell you they did achieve a lot of variety in environments and wild life with their procedural approach. So it all boils down to if you enjoy pure exploration or not. I understand for many people it's just not enough.
Still, it's sad when you realize the huge potential this had to be so much better, which the devs just lied about and in the end didn't deliver. |
Oh, I love exploration - it's one of my favorite parts of any game.
That's why I loved similar games like Freelancer and Privateer - because they had authored and unique content - including stories and locations with actual meaning and intention behind the design.
What I don't love, however, is seeing generated content made by an algorithm - because I understand the limitations of that technology. I know I will never find anything with meaning or intention. I know I will never find a story or a person with something interesting to say. I will never find a cave with a meaningful puzzle - and I will never find a journal with anything interesting in it.
We're simply nowhere near the kind of technology required for an algorithm to come up with something interesting, along those lines.
So, I don't need to play for more than a few hours to see everything there is to see.
That said, I appreciate that some people are entertained by variations in color and the strange mixups of body parts for the animals.
Some people get a kick out of that - and that's cool.
Maybe I would have enjoyed it more - if the actual gameplay wasn't 90% pointing a laser at something and then juggling your inventory.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:22 Post subject: |
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Also, why are people - in general - entertained by these survival/crafting mechanics?
I mean, it's so obvious in design that it's painful. They start out by giving you absolute trash in terms of gear - and pretty much the entire game is one long grind towards getting actually decent gear - so the very few interesting activities can be enjoyed without major hassle?
Wouldn't it be more honest to just give you decent gear and let people have fun for an hour or two - instead of stretching out nothing forever.
At least in an RPG - with character progression - you get all sorts of neat powers and combat is usually a lot more fun than pressing buttons for crafting.
I don't know, I just don't get it.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:23 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
That said, I appreciate that some people are entertained by variations in color and the strange mixups of body parts for the animals.
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And it's actually much more than that: shapes of terrain, density of vegetation, different elevations (there's actually mountains in this after all,and some quite high! so I retract what I said a few pages ago. Still no rivers though), atmospheric conditions, etc. The caves though, are another example of wasted potential, those have very little variation. Like I said the huge potential is there and it shows at times, but they failed at exploiting it.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:24 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
That said, I appreciate that some people are entertained by variations in color and the strange mixups of body parts for the animals.
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And it's actually much more than that: shapes of terrain, density of vegetation, different elevations (there's actually mountains in this after all,and some quite high! so I retract what I said a few pages ago. Still no rivers though), atmospheric conditions, etc. The caves though, are another example of wasted potential, those have very little variation. Like I said the huge potential is there, but they failed at exploiting it. |
Yeah, I know it's more than that - it's just the gist of it.
I mean, the things you're describing don't exactly get my juices flowing. Elevation variety and density of vegetation?
I mean, really 
Again, if the algorithm could come up with something that's not just random - it might be something. If some race with a real history had once lived on the planet - and you could explore ruins they left behind, and you could discover something beyond language gibberish - that might be something.
It seems this game does 0.1% and leaves 99.9% to your imagination.
Last edited by Casus on Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:26; edited 1 time in total
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Nodrim
Posts: 9583
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:28 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
That said, I appreciate that some people are entertained by variations in color and the strange mixups of body parts for the animals.
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And it's actually much more than that: shapes of terrain, density of vegetation, different elevations (there's actually mountains in this after all,and some quite high! so I retract what I said a few pages ago. Still no rivers though), atmospheric conditions, etc. The caves though, are another example of wasted potential, those have very little variation. Like I said the huge potential is there, but they failed at exploiting it. |
I mean, the things you're describing don't exactly get my juices flowing. Elevation variety and density of vegetation?
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Yes, that has some very concrete meaning. Just to give an example, density of vegetation, there's some planets where you can't see a compound, shelter or colony oupost from your ship while in flight because there in the middle of very dense woods. It's very easy to miss them, so you need much more attention than usual.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:33 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: | | 4treyu wrote: |
And it's actually much more than that: shapes of terrain, density of vegetation, different elevations (there's actually mountains in this after all,and some quite high! so I retract what I said a few pages ago. Still no rivers though), atmospheric conditions, etc. The caves though, are another example of wasted potential, those have very little variation. Like I said the huge potential is there, but they failed at exploiting it. |
I mean, the things you're describing don't exactly get my juices flowing. Elevation variety and density of vegetation?
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Yes, that has some very concrete meaning. Just to give an example, density of vegetation, there's some planets where you can't see a compound, shelter or colony oupost from your ship while in flight because there in the middle of very dense woods. It's very easy to miss them, so you need much more attention than usual. |
I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all, but that's cool
If you enjoy these "meaningful" things - and you think they're meaningful because yet another near-identical base is hidden behind vegetation - than that's great. I don't understand why - and I don't need to understand why.
So, let's just agree to disagree about what's meaningful and what's not.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 10:38 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 11:43 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | You can keep telling us preorders are to blame if you like, but clearly it's still selling well for other reasons. |
Because people are morons. Even with the evidence in front of their face, they'll still buy it.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 11:52 Post subject: |
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Not all gamers are hardcore in-the-know about how the industry works. Just because a minority of us have a decent chance at figuring out the worst lies - doesn't make the average consumer a moron.
I know it makes you feel good about yourself to look down upon the "sheep" who haven't dedicated their lives to following the deceit of the industry - but that doesn't really make it a solid foundation from which to reason.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:11 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
I guess it all boils down to how much you can get out of procedural content.
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Well, I can tell you they did achieve a lot of variety in environments and wild life with their procedural approach. So it all boils down to if you enjoy pure exploration or not. I understand for many people it's just not enough.
Still, it's sad when you realize the huge potential this had to be so much better, which the devs just lied about and in the end didn't deliver. |
The variety is only visual, so it's completely pointless.
Might as well be playing Spore.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9583
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:11 Post subject: |
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You don't have to follow the deceit of the industry, you just have to take buy with your eyes open.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:21 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | You don't have to follow the deceit of the industry, you just have to take buy with your eyes open. |
Nah, there are only 2 options.
You either "dedicate your life to follow the deceit of the industrY" or blindly trust gayjournos trying to sell you games because that's what they get paid to do.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:23 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | You don't have to follow the deceit of the industry, you just have to take buy with your eyes open. |
Have you ever considered that the vast majority of gamers out there aren't obsessive about games - and that they're probably not too concerned if they buy something that's not entirely great?
Like most people just go to the movies to have a laugh, and they don't analyze it afterwards.
That's what most people are like.
The people having a big problem with No Man's Sky are the core gamers - the people who want more from games than a bit of a laugh.
I agree that THEY should be more aware, but who's to say they're not? This game is selling like hotcakes because of the hype - and the hype is generated by the marketing department, the lying developers and the media.
The gamers themselves aren't responsible for the hype - but it's true they could stand to be more sceptical.
But that wouldn't really stop this game from making a ton of cash, because the average consumer will never be invested enough to separate the lies from the actual game.
Marketing works because people don't really care that much. That doesn't make them stupid or responsible for the lies of other people. It's just a destructive circle with everyone sharing the blame.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:26 Post subject: |
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This is why you don't pre-order folks, this is why you don't pre-order. Wait for the reviews, wait for the comments about the game. And if you're still not satisfied then try the ISOdemo first and see but remember not to pre-order and for spaghettimonsters sake, don't pre-order the god damn special edition of games. 
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 12:48 Post subject: |
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You can't auto-refund - and a lot of games take more than 2 hours before you know if they're worth the money or not.
Pre-ordering is something that really shouldn't exist in a 100% digital world. But we all do it on occasion. So, we're all guilty.
That said, I only pre-order when I'm willing to take a chance - and I never do it because I think it's a sure thing.
For instance, I pre-ordered Mankind Divided - because I knew I'd be buying it regardless. That doesn't mean I believe it will be the perfect game or anything - it just means I'll be playing it as soon as it's out.
For No Man's Sky - that has been one big red flag from the beginning for me - and I knew I would almost certainly not buy it at full price - so I naturally didn't pre-order.
That said, I can definitely see why a lot of people would - especially the people into this trend of hollow sandbox/grindy survival crafters. They're all over the place - and for whatever reason, people love them.
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 13:05 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
I guess it all boils down to how much you can get out of procedural content.
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Well, I can tell you they did achieve a lot of variety in environments and wild life with their procedural approach. So it all boils down to if you enjoy pure exploration or not. I understand for many people it's just not enough.
Still, it's sad when you realize the huge potential this had to be so much better, which the devs just lied about and in the end didn't deliver. |
The biggest mistake a dev can make, is to oversell their game and this game got oversold by miles. I mean, me and others predicted the game would lack flesh on the bones and we were proven to be right - all the trailers and footage were pretty clear that it didn't have all that much going on despite the press mostly glossing over that - but to see that the game lost a lot of content compared to the footage I didn't foresee - that really was a stupid mistake to make.
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jackbomb
Posts: 2531
Location: Tortilla de patatas
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 14:29 Post subject: |
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Last week I've played the game what, 12 hours in total? I plan to get back to it eventually, don't get me wrong! Game is good for what it is, a universe/star system/planetary exploration game. The sense of wonder as 4treyu (and others) said is there, be it through monoliths and their babelfish; strange and weird, walkable geographical/logical formations; really beautiful vistas from time to time... I get that eeriness, that sense of wonder and it lets me interact with it which leads me to the next point.
The bad about the game, which probably will eventually keep me away from it definitively: this is rererererepetitive. I mean, you need to mine and harvest every fucking planet to even reach the next one... exploration at cost of insistent rerererererepetitiveness, which gets heavily aggravated by its ceaseless "Inventory Full", at least at the first 10 hours or so until you start bypassing to get drop pods and new crashed starships, which eventually gets tedious BECAUSE YOU NEED TO MINE MORE PLUTONIUM TO EVEN LIFT YOUR STARSHIP 
The promises Sean Murray made? Yeah, that's a big disappointment, bad PR, lack of fundamental ethics towards the buyers/players, and I can see ppl getting infuriated by the lack of some advertised KEY elements missing. Let's hope they get patched for the better game.
B650 Tomahawk / 7950x CU -20 5.5GHz / PS120SE / 2x16GB DDR5 6000 CL30 / 3080 OC
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 17:00 Post subject: |
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 22nd Aug 2016 17:41 Post subject: |
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| zmed wrote: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjP8PCM-5pQ |
There are people out there that could actually stand more than a minute listening to this retard.  |
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