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vodkaLord




Posts: 315
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 13:20    Post subject:
Quote:
About safedisc in civ4, the implementation was very good afaik but the original sdk functions were not removed, so a full emulator wasn't needed, rld keygenned keys and that's all i guess.


and that is what you call very good implementation???



Quote:
Exacly, I noticed this as well, everytime some game which supposed to be uncrackable is released, the status of such game changes from uncrackable to bugged implementation or easy version or whatever


nobody ever said SF3 was totally uncrackable. Some instance of games using SF3 were cracked long ago by Ultima ect.
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 13:32    Post subject:
TheDuck wrote:
But isn't cracking a retail version pretty pointless if there's an update around? Sf can't be cracked in a few seconds like safedisc or securom and I don't think crackers are willing to waste their time on cracking some old version.

About safedisc in civ4, the implementation was very good afaik but the original sdk functions were not removed, so a full emulator wasn't needed, rld keygenned keys and that's all i guess.

Quote:
Are you gonna keep on saying that untill there is only one SF protected game left Question
THen you'll have to say "no they still can't generally crack SF3,because that game is still uncracked(for now). Evil or Very Mad


Exacly, I noticed this as well, everytime some game which supposed to be uncrackable is released, the status of such game changes from uncrackable to bugged implementation or easy version or whatever Laughing Also, why game x is cracked and y isn't, maybe cracking is not like a second, so you have to wait, buy the original or crack it yourself (good luck).

@Selt: Are you sure UFO had protected functions?

Enough of my crap, gotta write something more useful,
-TD


Smile Duck

Im not sure if Selt is sure about what he writes but UFO Aftershock v 1.2 has a 14.858.629 Bytes v3.6.10.7 protect.exe and it has at least 9 easy seeable vm'ed opcodes. But to be honest - the exe RLD did was sf3 protected but i dont even see any vm signs inside so either its a pretty nice exe where all unessesary sf shit got removed or its a pro active exe or something with a less sized protect.exe.

For Civ 4 - ppl should think more: Civ 4 1.00 is even less protected then civ 1.09 and civ 1.52 which are identical and yes its a easier type aof apis used so that rld didnt code an emulator in it (lame but working Smile).

At all the ppl: stop thinking about sf3 downed: there are fucking hard protected Games with even lower versions of sf3 as the version somehow only discribes the vm version the hardness is still in some kind the same.

hardest protected new games i saw myself:
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
Bet on Soldier also known as Fucking BAD Game with the fucking best SF3 i ever saw Smile
Prince of Persia 3

btw
cracking sf3.6 when sf 3.7 is out is still 1 step behind if not 2 or 4 as 3.4.76 3.4.77, 3.6.*, 3.7.* arent done yet in a proper way Smile

For the time thing i agree:
* Securom 7 took 6 months from Hoodlum dead till it got beaten again from RELOADED (i think now deviance an co can again steal the way of cracking RLD used like HOODLUM did after RELOADED Boiling Point crack).
* SD with api shit also is again a RELOADED first crack which after examination at least Deviance could copy to Total War updates.
* SF3 there is no reason why all games using it should be cracked - some games arent even worth a shit from them and the ones that are worth have 30mb and more protect.exe's Razz SCCT, KingKong, Pop3.

Lets see how it ends as long as RELOADED invents

Happy New Year and good luck games cracking scene. I love it as without my days would be boring in nforce Smile

immortal
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TheDuck




Posts: 148
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 15:50    Post subject:
vodkaLord wrote:
Quote:
About safedisc in civ4, the implementation was very good afaik but the original sdk functions were not removed, so a full emulator wasn't needed, rld keygenned keys and that's all i guess.


and that is what you call very good implementation???


There's a little difference between implementation (done by the game developers using api sdk provided by macrovision) and the actual protecting... Like I said, it was implemented correctly, game constants are crypted and decrypted in runtime, there are second type triggers and so on.. BUT while protection was applied on it, macrovision protector did not remove original sdk functions from the exe so rld cracker did not have to re-create those functions, just the keys for it.

Hello there Freak Very Happy
While you look at 3.6+, keep in mind each .exe has 2 vms inside (32/64bit), skin and string tables, drivers... king kong 32bit vm is aound 11mb afaik.

-TD
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 16:36    Post subject:
TheDuck wrote:

Hello there Freak Very Happy
While you look at 3.6+, keep in mind each .exe has 2 vms inside (32/64bit), skin and string tables, drivers... king kong 32bit vm is aound 11mb afaik.

-TD


Hehe of course but ~15mb gives u enough space to implement it Razz as you know yourself: 1 fucking function is more then enough Smile if used at the right place. And honestly sf isnt my main research anymore. I just watch a bit into rld/dev/ims cracks when some come esp when some lamers spread rumors about rld secu7 cracks being loaders. So i have to control myself what the groups do and saw a nice emu in secu7 by rld and no emu in civ4 api shit Razz and the ufo exe looked very very clean to me while when i dump ufo 1.2 it looks alot different whats normal. i didnt analyce the vm jmps that deep but in my eyes it has like 9 vmed.

Its to bad RLD stays all alone on that inventing. Alot of ppl reverse sf3 but most ppl get bored or tired when it comes to decrypting the VM, tracing the VM, reversing the VM to steal what u need for a proper exe.

@cablemunkeh: i dont hope so as then it wouldnt be funny to read it anymore about all the pl knowing the bugs of sf3 and sd4.6 and what ever but dont even know how to bypass the debugger and co checks Smile
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 16:56    Post subject:
What's a debugger dude? Wink

Quote:
Alot of ppl reverse sf3 but most ppl get bored or tired when it comes to decrypting the VM, tracing the VM, reversing the VM to steal what u need for a proper exe.


To be fair though that's when it gets really scary Very Happy


Last edited by CableMunkeh on Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 16:58; edited 1 time in total
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 16:56    Post subject:
maxiepaxie wrote:
/ Ontopic: I remember one of those games (I think it was a rally game developed by JoWood) was totally screwed by FLT,like they added their tag,etc. on the cd and you could enter any serial...
They are indeed talented,too bad the are gone (for now?) .
I sincerely hope they are still watching the scene and observing SF and even SD and SR
( 3 x S lol).

*Edited by UserFriendly7*



Some would say good they are Smile as according to the news back in time FLT ppl sold like hell to be that good. Their crackers were good tho but that was because they specialiced in protections. like 2 for securom 2 for safedisc and 1 guy skilled like hell that was involved in all and addionaly did protectcd and tages for them. But back to that times f.e. starforce was a peace of crap because lower system powers etc.
without pentium 4 + or amd 2000 + and the 64 bit shit they would be still crappy as a game with vmed functions gets slower then without and depending on how difficult u make it to crack it means evertime slower by running. thats the main reason why u see games with low level (game and engine needs already good hardware without protection) and high level (game needs like a p3-800 or so).

And btw most FLT cracker of course do check/reverse cracks and prtoections as they are in developing process of it today esp ppl like m*****, p*****, s*****, l**, *E*** ...
like with sf ppl there are also ex scene gods/crackers and dont even hide their base UCF/F4CG/Unpacking Gods. Thats the way as once u decide to create family earn money want to go in 80 days around the world Smile.

The main problem today is just alot of It students care more about torrent/p2p/xxx account hacking then wasting like 16h/day in a protection like sf.

Thats why you see high level cracks from time to time by rld or dev or ims but never a sf3 street like on secu7 where 1 cracking way is generic for all. to make sf3 generic you need like 10 reversers working together alot and when sf sees it it creats 3.8 with a new changed VM. so useless again and all starts at the beginning again.thatswhy sf is that strong when the first high end protected game is cracked the next step is done Smile with a new VM.
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bigboy177




Posts: 430
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:11    Post subject:
Freakshow wrote:

Thats why you see high level cracks from time to time by rld or dev or ims but never a sf3 street like on secu7 where 1 cracking way is generic for all. to make sf3 generic you need like 10 reversers working together alot and when sf sees it it creats 3.8 with a new changed VM. so useless again and all starts at the beginning again.thatswhy sf is that strong when the first high end protected game is cracked the next step is done Smile with a new VM.


Hello Freakshow... Long time no see... Wink

OK, so the SF3 devs change something in their VM, but it's not totaly rebuilt, only adjusted... so a group of clever crackers could also adjust their generic tool to "unpack" the new VM... The only thing that stops the SF3 death is the lack of really clever ppl... Smile
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:11    Post subject:
Generic cracking of SF3 is next to impossible anyway as the VM can be dynamic, so you're not reversing a static 1:1 relationship of bytecode to function but having to reverse the algorithm that's metamorphasising the VM's interpreter as well Sad EDIT: That's just in each game. Different games can have very very different appearing VMs even with the same SF version Sad

bigboy: no, it's a similar amount of effort required for each new version as the original decompilation I'm afraid Sad


Last edited by CableMunkeh on Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:15; edited 2 times in total
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nellebgd




Posts: 156
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:13    Post subject:
Can Reloaded crack SF 3.6?They cracked SF 3.5 so I think this guy can do this!
It's very hard work but...who knows Wink


Last edited by nellebgd on Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:14; edited 1 time in total
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Hfric




Posts: 12017
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:13    Post subject:
so hail to clones Very Happy
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:15    Post subject:
nellebgd wrote:
Can Reloaded crack SF 3.6?They cracked SF 3.5 so I think this guy can do this!
It's very hard work but...who knows Wink


Spot who hasn't actually read any of the posts above Smile
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:17    Post subject:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Generic cracking of SF3 is next to impossible anyway as the VM can be dynamic, so you're not reversing a static 1:1 relationship of bytecode to function but having to reverse the algorithm that's metamorphasising the VM's interpreter as well Sad

bigboy: no, it's a similar amount of effort required for each new version as the original decompilation I'm afraid Sad


cable it can be very generic: all you need is uptodate Vm logging which means lots coders to code such tools as for 1 guy its kinda a fulltime nonpaid job Smile
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Mr_Baggins




Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:17    Post subject:
I hope RELOADED are working on Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Anyway, they are doing AWESOME job!!!

11th "Thou shalt not flash"
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:20    Post subject:
Mr_Baggins wrote:
I hope RELOADED are working on Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. Anyway, they are doing AWESOME job!!!


yes tey are awesome as they still try but i hope they dont waste time on SCCT there are much better games Blitzkrieg 2, GT Legends, X3 REunion.
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:21    Post subject:
Freakshow wrote:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Generic cracking of SF3 is next to impossible anyway as the VM can be dynamic, so you're not reversing a static 1:1 relationship of bytecode to function but having to reverse the algorithm that's metamorphasising the VM's interpreter as well Sad

bigboy: no, it's a similar amount of effort required for each new version as the original decompilation I'm afraid Sad


cable it can be very generic: all you need is uptodate Vm logging which means lots coders to code such tools as for 1 guy its kinda a fulltime nonpaid job Smile


That still means you have to fully decompile each new version though dude, that's what I meant Wink poorly implemented games do help though with getting the information you need to properly trace the metamorphic code Wink
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highstuff




Posts: 1976
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:24    Post subject:
Freakshow wrote:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Generic cracking of SF3 is next to impossible anyway as the VM can be dynamic, so you're not reversing a static 1:1 relationship of bytecode to function but having to reverse the algorithm that's metamorphasising the VM's interpreter as well Sad

bigboy: no, it's a similar amount of effort required for each new version as the original decompilation I'm afraid Sad


cable it can be very generic: all you need is uptodate Vm logging which means lots coders to code such tools as for 1 guy its kinda a fulltime nonpaid job Smile


Freakshow ,Didn't you always say that generic wasn't possible Smile Razz
and I agree with 20 or more coders then lots of progress can be made with small groups with 5 crackers or coders these doesn't have a chance. at least not in an short time schedule
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:28    Post subject:
highstuff wrote:

Freakshow ,Didn't you always say that generic wasn't possible Smile Razz
and I agree with 20 or more coders then lots of progress can be made with small groups with 5 crackers or coders these doesn't have a chance.


Yes i did and i learned myself too while talking to other ppl that reverse sf too. It can be kinda 80% generic done and all the important parts can be done generic (important = vm logging f.e. as 1 part)

And of course but i dont even see groups with 5 crackers Smile
deviance does plain sd4.6 and vob 6 so looks like 2
rld looks also like 3 only
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MasterZ




Posts: 50
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:53    Post subject:
2006-01-02 PC Game ISOs Namco Museum 50th Anniversary (c) Namco RELOADED

Starforce 3.5 Smile
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wildwing
Banned



Posts: 639
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 17:57    Post subject:
MasterZ wrote:
2006-01-02 PC Game ISOs Namco Museum 50th Anniversary (c) Namco RELOADED

Starforce 3.5 Smile

whatever..still crap game
..
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 19:17    Post subject:
MasterZ wrote:
2006-01-02 PC Game ISOs Namco Museum 50th Anniversary (c) Namco RELOADED

Starforce 3.5 Smile


I would prefer a little Shock to starforce much much more like X3 Reunion or Bet on Soldiers but its nice anyway. lotsa cracks these days - i think they forgot to celebrate new year *smile*
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TheDuck




Posts: 148
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 19:17    Post subject:
Starforce 3.6 is not adjusted 3.5, it has NEW vm, so the "first" shield against crackers has changed, everything else - tricks, ide detection, vmware detection is same, just operated over different vm, so the only part that can be done generic has changed.

And yeah FreakShow, old protections are nowhere near current ones Mad They know how to make successful protection, make the cracking maybe not hard, but time consuming, and as "nonpaid job" not worth the time of 1 or 2 young students (some games might be worth it tho Twisted Evil )
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 19:18    Post subject:
Perhaps it can be outsourced to India to be cracked Twisted Evil
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Freakshow




Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 19:35    Post subject:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Perhaps it can be outsourced to India to be cracked Twisted Evil


or china Smile or best way to moskau russia Smile the easiest way to crack sf3 is probably stealing the server where unprotected files get uploaded to be protected Smile
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wildwing
Banned



Posts: 639
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 23:08    Post subject:
Freakshow wrote:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Perhaps it can be outsourced to India to be cracked Twisted Evil


or china Smile or best way to moskau russia Smile the easiest way to crack sf3 is probably stealing the server where unprotected files get uploaded to be protected Smile

maybe its not a server but just pc without access to web =]
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 23:20    Post subject:
wildwing wrote:
Freakshow wrote:
CableMunkeh wrote:
Perhaps it can be outsourced to India to be cracked Twisted Evil


or china Smile or best way to moskau russia Smile the easiest way to crack sf3 is probably stealing the server where unprotected files get uploaded to be protected Smile

maybe its not a server but just pc without access to web =]


Sadly it kinda needs to be reachable from the web for people to upload files to it to be protected Wink

Name: protect1.star-force.com
Address: 212.188.26.26
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wildwing
Banned



Posts: 639
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 23:44    Post subject:
huh
ok try to hack it! gL Smile
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TheDuck




Posts: 148
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 23:53    Post subject:
I dont think they keep interesting stuff on this pc Wink I bet its some kind of bnc to their network.
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CableMunkeh




Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon, 2nd Jan 2006 23:56    Post subject:
TheDuck wrote:
I dont think they keep interesting stuff on this pc Wink I bet its some kind of bnc to their network.


Yep more than likely Smile It's probably a single public facing IP with a load of NAT on it to internal machines Smile

mx.star-force.ru [212.188.26.26]
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alexdonwarez




Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue, 3rd Jan 2006 06:31    Post subject:
Y cant these groups (RLD/DEV/FLT) join to form a Supreme and beat the hell out of the Starforce,

When it happens i am sure we gonna see more cracks for starforce. ITs like that RLD has cracked starforce to prove their supremacy. But I prefer these group to join in hands & drill the asses of Starforce.
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alexdonwarez




Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue, 3rd Jan 2006 07:16    Post subject:
Hey guys these are ports open.

Starting nmap V. 3.00 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ )
Interesting ports on mx.star-force.ru (212.188.26.26):
(The 1597 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered)
Port State Service
21/tcp open ftp
22/tcp closed ssh
1723/tcp open pptp
5190/tcp closed aol

Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 882 seconds
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