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 Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 13:01 Post subject: |
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Yes, ignore him.
It changed a lot from the start 5 years ago, and it is completely worth it if you are into tight combat, butter-smooth animations, flashy effects and the sweet, sweet tingling-sensation when loot drops. If you want to play it as an RPG with intricate character crafting and a compelling story, not so much.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 13:14 Post subject: |
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Yeah but at least they can loose up the online requirement, i.e. to change it to periodically check the connectivity instead of having all world and action logic on the server, as if it's an MMORPG.
I have to stop all download in order to prevent it of lagging.
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 14:36 Post subject: |
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You could try Grim Dawn. It has some cool quests, eldritchy story, good character progression and a ton of content. The downside being the production value and an unappealing visual style (at least for me).
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 14:38 Post subject: |
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Last edited by AmpegV4 on Mon, 23rd Feb 2026 09:26; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 14:44 Post subject: |
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| Xenthalon wrote: | Yes, ignore him.
It changed a lot from the start 5 years ago, and it is completely worth it if you are into tight combat, butter-smooth animations, flashy effects and the sweet, sweet tingling-sensation when loot drops. If you want to play it as an RPG with intricate character crafting and a compelling story, not so much. |
Yeah, it has improved a great deal. I didn't enjoy it the first time I played it right on release. It felt totally wrong - loot was terrible so your gear was meh as well and the auction system felt weird, too. When I played it last year, I played it right to the end and had fun - the classes felt better balanced and the loot had been greatly boosted. It's still not perfect - there should have been a better trading system - but it's really not bad.
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 14:51 Post subject: |
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You are comparing the current itemization with the one in the game's older version. Compare it with the itemization in other (good) Hack & Slash games and you'll realize what a joke it is. I did give this game numerous chances to see these so called improvements, but the gameplay foundation is in shambles and any improvements barely have meaning.
I stumbled over this thread recently which sums up some of the items related problems:
https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/blizzard-continues-to-fundamentally-not-understand-itemization.939872/
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 15:13 Post subject: |
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Itemization was perfect in vanilla d3. Ah was perfect too, except the ah bots part. Proof: after ros and shitty bop game died. There's no point playing, paragon lvls trump items like wtf is that?
Idiot wyatt derp and the other moron who came in.. josh what's his face. Anyway...
Still hope with d2 remaster or d4.
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
Laptop : I5 4200H @ 3400mhz boost, GTX 850m 2gb Vram DDR3, 4gb RAM DDR3
Derpsole : Playstation 5 disc edition, Ninty Switcherino
TV+audio: LG CX 65" / Sonos ARC + SL ones + Sonos sub 3
VR Headset: Meta quest 2 airlinked
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 15:19 Post subject: |
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Last edited by AmpegV4 on Mon, 23rd Feb 2026 09:26; edited 1 time in total
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 15:19 Post subject: |
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| russ80 wrote: | Itemization was perfect in vanilla d3. Ah was perfect too, except the ah bots part. Proof: after ros and shitty bop game died. There's no point playing, paragon lvls trump items like wtf is that?
Idiot wyatt derp and the other moron who came in.. josh what's his face. Anyway...
Still hope with d2 remaster or d4. |
The fact that it worked better in D3 vanilla doesn't make it perfect, it's just pointing how poorly designed the game was that it couldn't carry on without pay to win systems.
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 15:26 Post subject: |
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Man drop the p2w bs. I cleared inferno on my dh without buying a single item. Plenty of other skilled people cleared it. It was hard, it was fun, exclusivist sort of. It was somewhat of an endgame plus playing the ah.
I can imagine it was horrible for bad players but then again they were motivated to keep bashing their heads or to buy items.
This wasn't p2w ... it had a pay to get better gear, but p2w? No. Class+skill was more important than the right items.
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
Laptop : I5 4200H @ 3400mhz boost, GTX 850m 2gb Vram DDR3, 4gb RAM DDR3
Derpsole : Playstation 5 disc edition, Ninty Switcherino
TV+audio: LG CX 65" / Sonos ARC + SL ones + Sonos sub 3
VR Headset: Meta quest 2 airlinked
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 16:27 Post subject: |
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| russ80 wrote: | Man drop the p2w bs. I cleared inferno on my dh without buying a single item. Plenty of other skilled people cleared it. It was hard, it was fun, exclusivist sort of. It was somewhat of an endgame plus playing the ah.
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Your so call arguments keep dropping in quality even more. First you said the itemization was perfect in vanilla just because it's not very appealing in RoS. Now you say that if you beat inferno without RMAH the game isn't pay to win. Well, sorry to inform you, but the definition of pay to win isn't revolving around you.
I cleared Inferno without buying anything from RMAH, but after the nerf that made the game slightly playable on the highest difficulty (in fact only Kripparian and some dedicated few did it before). But I'm not a narcissistic tunnel vision dude to narrow the business model to my "achievements". People went crazy on buying items to complete the game, I sold items worth 400-500 euros without putting much effort into the entire RMAH bullshit. So yeah, not pay to win, just with the option to pay so you can win against the final Primal Evil.
| Xenthalon wrote: | Yeah Nodrim seems to just hate blindly on everything D3 
Finally killing Diablo on Inferno with my Wizard together with a Barbarian friend within the first month of the game being released still is one of the fondest memories I have in gaming.
But I agree guys, a remake of Diablo 2 (+ modding support) with the D3 engine would be greatly appreciated. |
This dialogue is dead from the get go with you calling me a hater, but as someone with manners I feel forced to reply to you. I'm stating out the game's problems, which are plenty, years after its release and the fact that it got better, doesn't change that one bit. I'm not even making comparisons based on my preferences, but this is an AAA game coming from a big company (which me, the hater, got in CE). But maybe you are one of those players that's going to defend Paragons as a good idea (infinite progression!), the items that get slightly better in stats all the time (talk about lazy) or the choice-less character progression. 
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 17:04 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | This dialogue is dead from the get go with you calling me a hater, but as someone with manners I feel forced to reply to you. I'm stating out the game's problems, which are plenty, years after its release and the fact that it got better, doesn't change that one bit. I'm not even making comparisons based on my preferences, but this is an AAA game coming from a big company (which me, the hater, got in CE). But maybe you are one of those players that's going to defend Paragons as a good idea (infinite progression!), the items that get slightly better in stats all the time (talk about lazy) or the choice-less character progression. |
Whelp, another CE owner like me, nice.
I am defending none of that. If you look up my initial post where someone asked if the game was worth it, I said this
| Xenthalon wrote: | | it is completely worth it if you are into tight combat, butter-smooth animations, flashy effects and the sweet, sweet tingling-sensation when loot drops. If you want to play it as an RPG with intricate character crafting and a compelling story, not so much. |
See that? Nothing about the paragon system, nothing about great characterizaton.
Your points are all valid, but you must concede that there is no other ARPG that plays this well. Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, PoE... they all feel clunky. Your character takes some time to position, enemies path around weirdly, swings take too long to connect, they all have this weird 'off' feeling about them. Not D3. You click, instant animation. Only Torchlight 2 came close to how good D3 feels.
And one can go on and on about great RPG systems, and yeah, D3 has little of that, but it is a good game. Look at how well all the 2D Marios still sell. 2D Marios haven't changed much since Super Mario World, but they are all still so much fun because the core gameplay just feels so tight.
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locke89
Posts: 2812
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 18:01 Post subject: |
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Unfortunetely there are is chance that Blizz will fix itemization in Diablo 4. Maybe if it came only to PC but it's obvious it will be also on consoles. Heck, I won't be surprised if they streamline it even more with consoles being main platforms.
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 18:26 Post subject: |
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@Xenthalon In some cases it's a design choice which I have no problem with. The fluidity in actions isn't always something so great and Diablo 3 has this because Blizzard was targeting a console release as early as possible.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 19:03 Post subject: |
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Nodrim... you must be kidding. "they made the animations so smooth because they wanted a fast console release"... wat?
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 19:18 Post subject: |
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In PoE the animations clunkyness is part of the game's difficulty, getting stuck in doorways or in a pack, stuff like that, like it was in Diablo 2. These things don't work that well for the couch players so Blizzard opted for smoothness alongside dumbing down gameplay and other "features" taking away elements that made Diablo 2 challenging in a captivating way.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 22:16 Post subject: |
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Alright I get it. The story is bad, the build possiblities terrrible, itemization dumbed down, classes uninspired and gameplay too smooth and streamlined. That more like it?
Come on, you can not tell me people "wanted" that clunkiness in D2. I am a D2 veteran of 15+ years, I played classic, I played lod, I played tons of mods... I botted pindleskin, I botted using d2jsp, I had elaborate multi-account setups of bots teambotting with 4 characters in one game, I duped using d2hackit exploits, I had completely clientless botting setups using the RedVex proxy... I really know the ins and outs of that game.
And all the "skill" in D2 came from knowing how to evade that clunkiness. You either played a sorc, or did your best to get your character an Enigma to use teleport, to not have to deal with enemies blocking or stunlocking you. Then you did your best to play a build that did not have to deal with all the immunities in Hell, either through BotD on your merc as sorc or as a hammerdin with his holy damage, or decreptify curse from some item or also on your merc. Or you know, endless cowruns with a javazon.
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Airbag
Posts: 643
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 22:41 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | In PoE the animations clunkyness is part of the game's difficulty, |
Truly I have read everything now.. Defending clunkyness?.. I guess I'll have to accept I'm a closet couch potato and like smoothly playing games. Darn..
Did you also think predicting desyncs and using oos macros to get yourself back to where you are were also part of being a skilled player and should be in more ARPGs?
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Nodrim
Posts: 10259
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Jun 2017 23:27 Post subject: |
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I'm not defending clunkyness, PoE was in a pretty rough spot two years ago due to network problems and other technical issues and I condemned it for that with each chance I had. But it isn't there anymore. Diablo 3 is surely more fluid in animations and it's oozing that Blizzard production value with a great interface and everything while PoE is quite rough around the edges at this. But what some consider clunkyness is just being part of the game's design, a design that mimics some of the traits of Diablo 2 to make the game difficult. The movement is just more restricted in PoE to punish players for mistakes. The last time I played, Diablo 3 was punishing through the RNG from GR, like the mods bosses had, so... yeah...
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| Posted: Thu, 29th Jun 2017 11:51 Post subject: |
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Last edited by AmpegV4 on Mon, 23rd Feb 2026 09:26; edited 1 time in total
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Famou
Posts: 713
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu, 29th Jun 2017 12:00 Post subject: |
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Embarrassing. What a horrible character. Boring skills, boring gameplay. And how it looks is just disgusting. To top it off the abilities look horrible. And the animations pure crap.
Ive actually played D3 for a while with all characters on hardcore and high end gear. Don't even know why.
Blizzard ignored all beta feedback and just pushed for this crap to get released. What a company.
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 35851
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 29th Jun 2017 12:43 Post subject: |
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| Famou wrote: | Embarrassing. What a horrible character. Boring skills, boring gameplay. And how it looks is just disgusting. To top it off the abilities look horrible. And the animations pure crap.
Ive actually played D3 for a while with all characters on hardcore and high end gear. Don't even know why.
Blizzard ignored all beta feedback and just pushed for this crap to get released. What a company. |
Going by the earlier info on the cancelled second expansion and cutting it's content for free updates (And this paid class.) it seems Blizzard might be considering Diablo 3 to be pretty much done, Diablo 4 I guess is what's going to happen next then although I don't think they're completely killing support for Diablo 3 anytime soon though it'll be interesting to see what future updates will bring or if it'll be more balance adjustments and tweaks mostly.
Apparently the game is still very popular and sales are great but it doesn't have the monthly revenue generation of the other Blizzard games outside of apparently the Chinese version so I guess Blizzard isn't putting any major priority into the game or how to say though it seems a bit hasty if the game is really still that popular but hey, I don't claim to understand marketing and business decisions so perhaps to the upper management this makes more sense.
EDIT: A re-release of Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 would be interesting as well but I wonder just how much Blizzard would change from the core games and things like always online will probably be a thing plus modding might no longer be possible, we'll see I suppose.
Though I do hope they don't turn the gameplay completely into what Diablo 3 was.
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| Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2017 00:38 Post subject: |
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Last edited by AmpegV4 on Mon, 23rd Feb 2026 09:26; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2017 01:00 Post subject: |
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Imo the real trend for older dev studios like valve or blizzrd is to make games that can deliver them a constant stream of muneyz.
So more like games with lootboxes or other cosmetic stuff you can buy instead of sp games.
/They tried with the AH but didnt turn out well)
Wouldnt be surprised if diablo 4 would end up to be a more aggresive version(busines model wise than Path of exile.
WElp guess we have to see.
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Famou
Posts: 713
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2017 01:04 Post subject: |
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I don't mind paying for games or for features if they are good. Even the 15$ isn't bad.
I just hate how they released a horrible product and try to get away with it. Again.
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| Posted: Fri, 30th Jun 2017 07:55 Post subject: |
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I bought the Necromancer DLC for my son and I, mainly because Diablo 3 is a game we play together when he comes to mine, not for any other reason.
So far we are enjoying it, I would not agree that it is boring, although over time the whole game becomes boring and grindy, we usually drop the game for a weeks or months then come back to it for a while. Furthermore playing without Turbohud is a nightmare. Hope it gets updated soon.
No way is the DLC worth £13.00 but it is OK, if we did not play it together I certainly would not have bought it.
We love these type of games just to run about having fun and we have gone through them all. Titan quest,Van Helsing, Torchlight 1+2, Sacred 2,Victor Vran etc etc. If anyone can think of anymore that would be welcome.
Cheers.
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All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
Unless you want to waste money on a game that has an illogical story probably written by a 14 year old who hasn't read anything more than comic books. Even the gameplay can't follow in the footsteps of its predecessors having none of the elements that made those games great.
