The Emulation Thread
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Thu, 12th Oct 2017 12:58    Post subject:
Ralph_Wiggum wrote:
"There isn't much room for improvement on the emulator itself anymore unless the devs finally decide to move to Vulka" Thats just bs.
Everything writteng in ewerything has allways been imprwowed.


Yeah i see you really know your shit Laughing
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Civ01




Posts: 1294

PostPosted: Thu, 12th Oct 2017 14:16    Post subject:
TiHKAL wrote:
Civ01 wrote:
tet666 wrote:


C'mon you should know better then asking here, you know the rules.
Also just typing "Demon's Souls iso" in to google and clicking on the very first result was enough in my case...



dont ask for direct link! Could just say the domain name for the tracker!

I have downloaded 3 ISOS from google and none of them work that's why i ask


Do you have the firmwares installed?

https://rpcs3.net/quickstart

Check this guide for getting started.


Yes I did all of that!
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Nui
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Location: in a place with fluffy towels
PostPosted: Thu, 12th Oct 2017 18:15    Post subject:
But how can you say with certainty that an API switch is necessary? Even if the number of draw calls is the limiting factor, the number of draw calls can be reduced by aggregating more first.

Although DX12/Vulkan could very well be a cleaner/saner solution Smile
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Thu, 12th Oct 2017 18:42    Post subject:
Nui wrote:
But how can you say with certainty that an API switch is necessary? Even if the number of draw calls is the limiting factor, the number of draw calls can be reduced by aggregating more first.

Although DX12/Vulkan could very well be a cleaner/saner solution Smile


Exactly.
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Mister_s




Posts: 19863

PostPosted: Thu, 12th Oct 2017 20:23    Post subject:
Awesome guys, thanks for the input Very Happy
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Xenthalon




Posts: 1722
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 08:14    Post subject:
Yeah, what the hell are you guys even arguing about, we had such a nice discussion about emulator news going here.

To emulate any system in another system, the emulating system has to be more powerful than the one being emulated.

And here is why you need a realtively powerful PC to emulate the Wii and the GameCube, straight from the Dolphin page:

https://dolphin-emu.org/docs/faq/#why-do-i-need-such-powerful-computer-emulate-old-c
Quote:
Why do I need such a powerful computer to emulate an old console?
While it's true the GameCube and Wii hardware is a lot slower than what you need to emulate the console using Dolphin, the hardware found in these consoles is also very different from what you can find in a gaming PC. For example:

Instead of an Intel or AMD x86 CPU, GameCube and Wii use an IBM PowerPC CPU. Games are programmed for this CPU: when emulating, every basic instruction a game runs needs to be translated to something a PC can execute. Depending on the instruction, this can take from 2x to 100x clock cycles, which explains why you need more than a 486MHz CPU to emulate a GameCube.

The RAM in these consoles is SRAM, smaller but faster than the SDRAM used in a PC. It is also shared between CPU and GPU, which makes operations like texture uploads (CPU memory to GPU memory) or framebuffer copies (GPU memory to CPU memory) a lot less demanding than they are on a PC.

The GPU is not using shaders: every graphics effect and every computation done by the game is executed directly by the hardware without an intermediate programming language. This does not match how a PC GPU works at all. Dolphin uses shaders on the PC GPU to translate what the GC GPU can do directly in hardware, causing it to run a lot slower.

A PC runs an operating system in order to be able to run several programs at the same time. A GameCube or a Wii does not have the same requirement and can directly execute things on the hardware without going through the operating system, making a lot of communication between chips faster.
This list is not exhaustive but should give you a good idea of what exactly makes emulation require a powerful computer.
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pyongftw




Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 09:25    Post subject:
Xenthalon wrote:
Yeah, what the hell are you guys even arguing about, we had such a nice discussion about emulator news going here.

To emulate any system in another system, the emulating system has to be more powerful than the one being emulated.

And here is why you need a realtively powerful PC to emulate the Wii and the GameCube, straight from the Dolphin page:

https://dolphin-emu.org/docs/faq/#why-do-i-need-such-powerful-computer-emulate-old-c
-snip-


It kinda baffles me that this question is still being asked these days Laughing


done lurking for 4 years, I'm back <3
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Amadeus




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Location: Yes
PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 09:47    Post subject:
The Wii U's GX2 API is very similar to OpenGL so that the recompilation and the resulting code is very light on the GPU and the GPU thread, overhead is very minimal and switching API's would likely come with little performance benefits

I mean you can pretty much do 4k Cemu on a 1060 and the devs aren't gonna go for something like Ubershaders like in Dolphin so it won't benefit there either

So since most of the workload is due to PCP recompilation and the GPU overhead isn't taking away much CPU processing power I can see how it's not a huge priority for them

Plus Nvidia's Vulkan implementation is heavily built on their OpenGL driver, there likely wouldn't be much in terms of a performance benefit that you can't get out of OGL 4.6 with Nvidia specific extensions

Though i suppose AMD users would benefit from it more noticeably, their OpenGL drivers are pretty poopy, you can use Linux and it's 3rd party mesa drivers which are much better than AMDs own drivers (even provide a multi threaded optimization like Nvidia does in windows) but then you gotta use Linux.. and that's not great either.

Luckily the devs are planning on providing Vulkan support in the not too distant future
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vurt




Posts: 13822
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:44    Post subject:
What's the best SNES emulator currently? It used to be ZSNES, but i haven't played any SNES in 5-6 years so perhaps there's something better today?

Any advantage of getting the official nintendo mini SNES (it seems like it can be hacked)? i'm probably just gonna play on the computer monitor so i dont have need for anything external really..

what about controllers, i guess my xbox one controller will in fact work better than some cheap $20 clone of the original controllers?
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JBeckman
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PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:47    Post subject:
For emulators I use Byuu or Higan as it's called now myself but I think Snes9X is also still actively worked on while being (far) faster as it's less extreme in focus on accuracy. Smile

Byuu/Higan would be this website with version 1.05 released a few days ago.
https://byuu.org/emulation/higan/#
http://www.emucr.com/2017/10/higan-v105.html


EDIT: Yeah it looks like there's activity for Snes9X too via various builds. Smile
http://www.emucr.com/2017/10/snes9x-testbuild-20171010.html

Or just http://www.emucr.com/search/label/SNES?&max-results=16 for a overview of the platform in question and emulator updates. Smile


EDIT: Edited a bit for readability.


Last edited by JBeckman on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:50; edited 2 times in total
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vurt




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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:49    Post subject:
Great, thanks!
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JBeckman
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PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:51    Post subject:
I don't know too much about the mini-SNES however, only heard a little bit about it but from what I have heard it does seems it can be modified but availability has apparently been an issue in several countries so that could be a problem.

EDIT: This write-up seems like it has some good info however.
https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNES/comments/7562pc/modding_the_snes_classic_with_hakchi2_faq/
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Nui
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PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 20:53    Post subject:
Currently I can also recommend retroarch (which nowadays downloads its cores for you) using the bsnes accuracy core. That thing is probably almost 100% snes compatible. Perhaps slightly behind the original higan version?
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Morphineus
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PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 23:17    Post subject:
Build your own mini-NES



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vurt




Posts: 13822
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 13th Oct 2017 23:32    Post subject:
JBeckman wrote:
I don't know too much about the mini-SNES however, only heard a little bit about it but from what I have heard it does seems it can be modified but availability has apparently been an issue in several countries so that could be a problem.

EDIT: This write-up seems like it has some good info however.
https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNES/comments/7562pc/modding_the_snes_classic_with_hakchi2_faq/


Nice guide, thanks. Yes it seems to be either just really hard to get or very expensive (~2000:-), i'm not willing to pay that much for a SNES tbh..

@Nui i'll take a look!

@Morphineus yeah, had a friend here recently, he had a raspberry pi NES & C64 "console" with him, it worked really well..
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AndreaSpooky




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PostPosted: Mon, 16th Oct 2017 12:55    Post subject:
retro-related, for lazy types like myself:

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TiHKAL




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PostPosted: Mon, 16th Oct 2017 16:58    Post subject:
Zelda Breath of the Wild: Switch vs New Clarity pack



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Nintendo Switch SX OS Pro / PS4 Pro 5.05 Hen/Mira / PS3 Modded / Wii Modded / 360 Pre-Wave4 mod
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slal




Posts: 819

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 17:04    Post subject:
So I finally tried to play BoTW with latest cemu. I'm getting 25-30 fps on my oc 2500k-it's pretty playable.
I got FPS mod and some shadercache file so there is almost no stuttering.
Any other recommendations (mods etc.) out there or is it an end for my 2500k?
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 17:12    Post subject:
slal wrote:
So I finally tried to play BoTW with latest cemu. I'm getting 25-30 fps on my oc 2500k-it's pretty playable.
I got FPS mod and some shadercache file so there is almost no stuttering.
Any other recommendations (mods etc.) out there or is it an end for my 2500k?


Nah that's it you can only oc higher but even high end systems dip in to the 30s in towns and other areas like that nothing you can do, WII U is locked 20 fps there and docked switch also dips a lot.
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slal




Posts: 819

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 17:15    Post subject:
^^
Thx!. Oh well atleast something finally brought my CPU to its knees Cool Face
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no9999




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PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 18:30    Post subject:
Otherwise try a lower image res pack thingy (forgot the name lol)
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 19:45    Post subject:
no9999 wrote:
Otherwise try a lower image res pack thingy (forgot the name lol)


Graphic pack and this will likely not make much of a difference since he's probably cpu limited pretty much everywhere, extreme situations like the 4k pack in town in a thunderstorm can max out even most high end cards though.


Last edited by tet666 on Wed, 18th Oct 2017 21:45; edited 1 time in total
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zellar




Posts: 1553

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 21:29    Post subject:
Even on my i7 7700 with 16Gb and a 1070 video card I get between 25-60 FPS....with the newer clarity graphics pack and resolution packs it still looks and runs better then a WiiU or a Switch....


Gigabyte Z590 UD AC Motherboard - Intel i5-11600k 3.90 GHZ - 32 GB DDR 4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600MHz- GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Windforce OC 12GB (Driver 566.03) Corsair GOLD 80 Plus RM750x PSU Gigabyte QS32Q 32" flat screen Gaming Monitor
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Mister_s




Posts: 19863

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 23:41    Post subject:
Does the clarity pack have any impact on fps? It looks really great, removes the crap filter it seems.
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slal




Posts: 819

PostPosted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 23:51    Post subject:
^^
I've just installed clarity pack and it looks like the fps is the same as before.
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zellar




Posts: 1553

PostPosted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 00:31    Post subject:
The packs don't really effect FPS unless they actually say it in the title of the pack eg. BreathOfTheWild_FPS++


Gigabyte Z590 UD AC Motherboard - Intel i5-11600k 3.90 GHZ - 32 GB DDR 4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600MHz- GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Windforce OC 12GB (Driver 566.03) Corsair GOLD 80 Plus RM750x PSU Gigabyte QS32Q 32" flat screen Gaming Monitor
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JBeckman
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PostPosted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 09:48    Post subject:
https://github.com/slashiee/cemu_graphic_packs/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed

Looks like the CEMU graphics packs are going through some big changes, trying to find some info but it's not going to well but I guess it has to do with simplifying how these work?
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 12:00    Post subject:
JBeckman wrote:
https://github.com/slashiee/cemu_graphic_packs/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed

Looks like the CEMU graphics packs are going through some big changes, trying to find some info but it's not going to well but I guess it has to do with simplifying how these work?


Just some fixes and new buildscripts for appveyor, which you should use now btw and not the Github:
https://ci.appveyor.com/project/slashiee/cemu-graphic-packs/build/artifacts
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tet666




Posts: 5090

PostPosted: Mon, 23rd Oct 2017 18:45    Post subject:
Cemu 1.11.0 news:

Quote:
Hi Patrons,

today we will share some news about the upcoming Cemu release 1.11.0.

This update is scheduled to release tomorrow evening, on 24th October CET.

Here is a list of significant changes that will make it into 1.11.0:

Native online play
Use account and mii data from dumped account.dat (optional)
Fixed audio related crashes introduced in 1.10.0
Rework of more Cafe OS libraries for better accuracy (saves, memory management, account handling)
Recompiler and interpreter bug fixes
Various input bug fixes
Graphic improvements (Mostly Splatoon is affected)
Installation of game updates and DLCs via Cemu's UI
Several new game profile options (see detailed changelog when it releases)
Minor optimizations (3-7% faster vs 1.10.0)
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Amadeus




Posts: 2347
Location: Yes
PostPosted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 01:18    Post subject:
Sucks that you need a real Wii U to dump files from to enjoy the online play
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