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prudislav
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Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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 Posted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 19:09 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 19:33 Post subject: |
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Aaaaaand longest end turn times, ever.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34997
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Oct 2017 20:32 Post subject: |
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For now, there's a third part too isn't there and if they merge that in (In some fashion.) you'll need some really top-of-the-line CPU for those big campaigns as they drag on and the AI takes increasingly longer to even move some units around a bit.
And I found their previous games already had really lengthy turn times, wonder how lengthy these are even if they do all sorts of hacks or optimizations in order to try and reduce it further.
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Sin317
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Location: Geneva
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prudislav
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Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 17:17 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 19:09 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | bah nitpicking.
I am so tired of the Vortex bullshit already.
the game is a fucking CHORE on legendary. The AI has DOZENS of full stacks invading you, while you can barely handle 2 or 3.
Ofc since the AI absolutely SUCKS, my stacks can obliterate 2-3 stacks of his at once and are never really in danger,
BUT there is that little thing called
"Being in 12 places at once".
the game is literally my stacks running after his stacks and the settlements he took.
Over 150 turns in, I a) never conquered the whole High Elven Island (I am HE, forgot to mention) and b) never even came close to going anywhere else.
All this while the other factions are at ritual 4 and 5 (the final one) and I am stuck somewhere between 2 and 3.
LOL.
I feel a lengthy rent on youtube coming  Freiwald, GET READY! |
Reason why I don't play legendary, or anything over normal, is cause the only difference is a larger health pool / armor for enemy units. But AI technically, they're not smarter, sneaker, better. Or have they changed that? |
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| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 19:44 Post subject: |
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No.
Grab the Advanced AI mod if you want a better AI. I for one refuse to play without it now.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 21:33 Post subject: |
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The AI doesn't use any tactics more advanced than:
try to attack the flanks/back with cavalry/equivalent,
March the entire rest of his forces straight into yours.
It's a bloodbath. And unless the AI has vastly superior forces, who can steamroll whatever you put in front of him, he won't ever succeed.
They make that up by cheating so badly, it makes it hilarious at times.
In my last playthrough I seriously had 20-30 enemy stacks running through me, constantly, and no matter how many I destroyed, 2-3 at a time, he would just make more and more, lol.
Also, on legendary, you have horrible public order (-8 malus) and everybody and their mother hate your guts "just that much more".
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| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 23:54 Post subject: |
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its a shell of a game nowadays, actually, rephrase that, its still the same game it was 8 years ago, they havent spent any recources on ai whatsoever. last time they even tried to have a guy talk about battle ai was like 6 years ago in a single youtube video that probably was take down already and his ass was chewed a new one by the community and he probably in hiding somewhere.
all they did was reskin their core game over and over these last 5 games, they cant even touch the ai i think, cause the guy who made it initialy for empire total war no longer works at the company and left a brutal coding mess. ( that was their excuse for the faillure that was empire total war, go figure) they still using this game engine today.
so in essence, there is nothing left to salvage and tweak this ai, it was a stillborn from the very beginning, they cant fix it even if they wanted to and they will never admit that after they saw the responce admitting the initial reason of the guy leaving the company mid production. it was appauling back then, its just sad now.
http://blogs.sega.com/totalwar/2009/11/10/battle-ai-by-mike-simpson/
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prudislav
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Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 12:15 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 12:23 Post subject: |
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It's really annoying that they chopped off half the TWW2 map.
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 12:31 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | It's really annoying that they chopped off half the TWW2 map. |
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 12:40 Post subject: |
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I don't get the bottom right corner of the map. Has it been merged with "South America" (whatever it's called in Warhammer), or is it a new part of the map?
Regardless, the middle is awfully crowded, while other parts are barren. And they shoudl have moved the High Elves somewhere else. Their starting location sucks.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 13:24 Post subject: |
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Will see how it plays and how the map is in-game, but with the "Old World" being so freaking out of scale...
not much hope there is, I say.
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 15:59 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the explanation, DCB.
So, seeing how Araby and not-Africa in general will now be included in the combined map, chances of the Necr... I mean the Tomb Kings being the next playable faction are quite high.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
Last edited by r3dshift on Fri, 20th Oct 2017 18:57; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 17:15 Post subject: |
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DLC factions from the first game are playable, so presumably they will add DLC factions from the second as well.
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dethy
Posts: 3112
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 18:46 Post subject: |
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Can't fucking wait!
My specs:
Ryzen 5950x @ boosting 5ghz, Gigabyte x570 Aorus Master, 128gb G.Skill Trident Neo pc3600 ram, nVidia RTX 5080, SoundBlasterX G6, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 1TB and Hynix m.2 1TB storage SSD. Custom watercooling loop.
Derpsole: Nintendo Switch, Derpstation 5 Pro
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 19:35 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | First let me add, that I just come from yet another failed attempt at the Legendary High Elves Campaign with Tyrion, so if I sound a bit angry, that's probably why.
So let me start with, that I am and have always been a big Total War Fan, ever since Rome Total War that is.
I was able to cope with the mediocre battle AI, with the cheating, his ass off campaign AI because there was always that "it" factor.
I just love to play games, where I can colour the map in mine.
I like to strategize, to think I could be a general back in the days and what not.
And I like to beat strategy games on their highest difficulty levels.
I did this with no problem in Total War: Warhammer 1 with several factions and usually not many problems.
Heck, I think I said on many occasions, how it was still too easy.
Guess someone at Creative Assembly finally heard me and, for the lack of actual competence, thought it would be a good idea, to punish the player into the abyss, whilst pushing the AI, resource-wise, to the skies.
The result of this is a not very fun experience, for the player.
Instead of skill, the player needs luck and especially lucky breaks, because apparently, the AI is hell bend to destroying YOU in majuscule.
Nothing else seems to matter to the A.I. but making the player's life miserable.
There is no tactics or a bigger picture here, no, it is simply stomping the player into the abyss of misery and pain.
Now before I go on, of course, I realise, that some people have defeated the AI on legendary.
But that's not the point.
My point is, they made the game punishing, not challenging.
For example in my High Elves CampaignS, there comes a point, not long into the game, where everybody starts to declare War on me for no reason AND starts to send seemingly endless waves of troops over to my lands.
And I mean endless.
When I, with several provinces can barely support 2 standing armies, somehow the AI can field 5,6,7 and sometimes over a dozen.
And that is PER faction, not combined.
So often you see armies of 4-5 full stacks running around in your lands, wrecking havoc.
And you are supposed to not only stop them from doing so, no, you also are supposed to stop them from being able to do so.
And it's hell.
And again, I am fully aware, that there are people who were able to cope with this, I guess, but I think a lot of that has been through either cheesing the shit out of the game or being very very RNG lucky.
I don't see how "skill" is a big factor here.
I mean, I can defeat 2-3 stacks in a single battle with my armies, but they just send 4 to replace those.
Like I said, it's like a never-ending streaming of misery coming your way.
So might say, that the AI is attacking you, so you can't advance with the vortex ritual.
And they would be wrong again.
And don't even get me started on how fucked up that vortex ritual bullshit is.
I can barely do the first ritual when all the other factions are already in the third and once I get to the second, some are already past the fourth or even at the last one.
So I am of course the obvious choice to attack.
I am the furthest back in the rituals, my Army strength is "mediocre" at best and my income is close to zero.
Meanwhile, the other major factions have endless gold, dozens of armies and share the entire world.
Yet somehow they never seem to be at war with each other.
Only with me, the player.
It's like some programmer hated us so much, he thought he would get his revenge by adding this injustice to the game's AI in order to make our lives miserable.
Or, and that is more likely, it is just another proof of CA's incompetence on the matter, just randomly giving maluses to the player and bonuses to the AI, without doing any quality testing and without even thinking about the consequences.
Because the consequences are there for all to see if you actually look at the problem.
For example, the player gets a -8 malus to public order. Which means that low public order and even rebellions are a frequent issue.
Now that in itself doesn't sound like a problem, right, rebellions can be crushed easily with an army.
That is correct, HOWEVER, the negative public order does more than that. It reduces growth, reduces tax income, increased recruitment costs and even lowers recruitment slots.That is a LOT of things, especially if you consider, that the AI most likely has a positive Public Order Bonus and even if not, just the 0 is almost the same as a positive one.
A simple building or a simple lord in a settlement and the AI would be in the positive.
Jut with that, the AI would have bigger settlements faster, more money, fewer costs and be able to recruit more.
And that's just from that public order malus for the player.
next thing is the diplomatic relations malus for the player vs. the AI factions.
Now I admit, this is a bit speculating on my part, but I think I am onto something here.
So I heard, that the player has an inherit malus in diplomatic relations with the AI.
Which would mean, anything a faction does, that is negative towards you, every other faction would like and therefore they would push your enemies that much closer together, whilst isolation you more and more.
Because that how the game looks.
When you have Skaven, Undead, Norsca and especially several factions of Dark Elves rampaging your lands, without ever fighting each other and that without being allied, then you know something is fishy.
It's like the AI doesn't recognize each other as enemies or better yet, rivals.
The only AI fighting I witness, are those factions that seem scripted to hate each other and who do nothing but fight each other until a major faction gobbles them up.
It's like the game is yet again just a stale masquerade and until modders overhaul the entire thing and make it actually FUN to play, just another sign of how bad CA really is at making their games.
It just feels like all they are doing is reskin their games year in year out, like the call of duty of strategy games.
And every time we buy into it with the hope that some modders end up making the game worthwhile.
Anyway, I went on for way too long.
Just remember, I am a bit angry so try not to be too harsh on me.
Just joking, you go nuts on me now |
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 14:04 Post subject: |
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I see a lot of complaints about the -8 public order malus, but that's been there in TW:W1 as well, so how is that suddenly a valid complaint? The other points might be valid but why is there so much focus on this thing which was already there in the last game, especially when the guy says that he was fine with and beat TW:W1 several times?
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 15:29 Post subject: |
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I have to start up tww1 to check this, but I don't think public order had the same impact as it does here.
Here it is as followed:
Happy Population = more tax, more recruitment slots, less recruitment cost, more growth
Unhappy Population = less tax, fewer recruitment slots, higher recruitments costs and negative growth.
But I think the major impact on legendary, has to be the diplomatic malus with other factions.
I am now playing a campaign on hard and it's like day and night. The High Elves I am supposed to be Ally with, didn't refuse to do so.
On Legendary, if you don't add enormous amounts of gold to any proposal, they just keep refusing.
They won't trade or most of the time even sign non-aggression pacts.
Also, other factions, on legendary, will 50/50 insta-declare war, the moment you discover them. For no reason. Not for being allied to an enemy or anything or have done anything against them or any of their allies in the present or the past.
Just...
Hey there, welcome... we just met, let's Netflix and WAR?
And they will send huge amounts of armies your way, ignoring any other faction and even enemies, just to get to you. It's like you're a huge magnet to everyone.
I think they just added a bunch of maluses to the player and insane bonuses to the AI and never thought twice if it was actually any fun, if it was challenging or simply punishing.
Because punishing isn't fun.
All they do is try to hide their incompetence in AI programming behind stupid stat changes.
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dethy
Posts: 3112
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 20:48 Post subject: |
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I think that's why they added that stuff (IIRC, I really don't think they had so many negative effects in the previous game).
Especially with Bretonnia, it was easy cheesy to get non stop exp with rebellions.
Anyway, I am now playing on Hard and I am having a lot more fun. The AI is still aggressive enough, but not to the point that it becomes frustrating.
Guess in the end, they made it better. In a sense.
In tww1, legendary was like in-between normal and hard for me (not boasting, but it was that easy, once you got past the first 20 or 30 turns).
Oh, and 126 hours played according to steam.
And so far, I only played as Tyrion... Can't wait for Skaven, Lizardmen and Dark Elves
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Sin317
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Location: Geneva
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dethy
Posts: 3112
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Oct 2017 15:51 Post subject: |
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Only a few more days to Mortal Empires men!
Can't wait to restart my Empire campaign and rule the f'ing world!
My specs:
Ryzen 5950x @ boosting 5ghz, Gigabyte x570 Aorus Master, 128gb G.Skill Trident Neo pc3600 ram, nVidia RTX 5080, SoundBlasterX G6, Samsung 980 Pro m.2 1TB and Hynix m.2 1TB storage SSD. Custom watercooling loop.
Derpsole: Nintendo Switch, Derpstation 5 Pro
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barash
Posts: 832
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Oct 2017 20:09 Post subject: |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 10:16 Post subject: |
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I just wish, they added the normal long campaign to the TWW2 base game.
I am so sick and tired of the vortex bullshit.
It's fun to see the cutscenes ones, but after that...
And in higher difficulties, the AI get's "ritual points" like 2-3 times faster, so basically, you can just give up on doing any of them and hope you can beat them at their final ritual battle...
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Oct 2017 12:59 Post subject: |
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