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| Page 227 of 274 |
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 Posted: Mon, 16th Oct 2017 10:08 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | Roberts has blown Star Citizen out of proportions and instead of focusing on getting the core experience finished he's got his team working on all content at once (instead of for example finishing Squadron 42 first which is what most people want to play from the beginning and then go into an expanded universe space sim/MMO). |
He can't finish Squadron 42 first and at no point in time would there have been any internal plans for this.
They have known for a very long time that the engine was unfinished and needed a crazy amount of work.
They can't finialise and release squadron 42 until the engine for the universe is completed as well, they share the same engine and we know the engine isn't finished yet.
The only possible way you could release Squadron 42 early is to fork the engine which would mean doubling the amount of developers that work on the engine forever which nobody would ever do.
| Kaltern wrote: | | They spent far too much, too quickly too soon... fucked up a LOT of the initial coding... hired too many staff, bought too much frivolous crap and wondered why they ran low on funds.... |
Do you have a source for any of that? It looks pretty incorrect to me.
Its obvious the scope of the game was and continues to be blown way out of proportion but thats it.
| Frant wrote: | I think they're desperate for funding since they're not working for a publisher pumping huge sums into the project. That's why they started with the rather ugly sales of in-game ships and crap to get more money from the public (abusing the fans).
I've seen several articles recently about the financial issues they're facing. |
There is no actual evidence they are running into financial issues, they probably have a lot of money in the bank.
Whats most likely is Chris Roberts just wants to milk the entire playerbase as long as he can.
At least in his point of view, whats the point in doing anything the playerbase is suggesting if it doesn't involve more money?
Maybe one day everyone will get sick of the mess and dump the game but there is no reason to do that right now as he's making a lot of money.
If anything using black magic to release the game today could result in less money.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Mon, 16th Oct 2017 17:12 Post subject: |
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Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =- |
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 04:57 Post subject: |
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People need to understand this simple truth about economics. It is possible for execs to line their pockets and fill their bank accounts, while paying big salaries to hundreds of people for quite some time ... and meanwhile the company can be facing (mounting) financial difficulties.
At some point this whole thing will burst and we know the excuses already. People will be saying that they wasted hundreds of millions but don't worry, most of that will be in their bank accounts, houses, cars etc. It will not really be "gone".
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 05:16 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | People need to understand this simple truth about economics. It is possible for execs to line their pockets and fill their bank accounts, while paying big salaries to hundreds of people for quite some time ... and meanwhile the company can be facing (mounting) financial difficulties.
At some point this whole thing will burst and we know the excuses already. People will be saying that they wasted hundreds of millions but don't worry, most of that will be in their bank accounts, houses, cars etc. It will not really be "gone". |
There is no evidence for that.
They are still gaining plenty of money each day and they are showing no signs of financial pressure by reducing scope, they still continue to increase scope.
My point is that while anything can happen, you can't say one way or another.
But most people here are more interested in laughing and claiming its doomed then actually having a counter argument.
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 06:14 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: | | VGAdeadcafe wrote: | People need to understand this simple truth about economics. It is possible for execs to line their pockets and fill their bank accounts, while paying big salaries to hundreds of people for quite some time ... and meanwhile the company can be facing (mounting) financial difficulties.
At some point this whole thing will burst and we know the excuses already. People will be saying that they wasted hundreds of millions but don't worry, most of that will be in their bank accounts, houses, cars etc. It will not really be "gone". |
There is no evidence for that.
They are still gaining plenty of money each day and they are showing no signs of financial pressure by reducing scope, they still continue to increase scope.
My point is that while anything can happen, you can't say one way or another.
But most people here are more interested in laughing and claiming its doomed then actually having a counter argument. |
It's hard to have a counter argument without publicly released financial statements. How very convenient for CIG. 
But really, take a look at the state of what they HAVE released. If you still need any more convincing that the entire thing is a sham designed to be dragged on for as long as possible while sucking as much money out of people as possible, then there's really nothing that can be done for you.
CIG is basically the digital equivalent of Enron. For those that may not be familiar with THAT scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron#2001_Accounting_scandals
Plenty of documentaries on YT about 'em as well.
Basically, they went on for years telling everyone that everything was great! Buy our stock! Invest your retirement savings in our options! Oopsy, we're dead broke (and have been for some time) and all the so called cash-flow never really existed! The execs knew all along of course. Some blew their brains out when the jig was up. One conveniently had a heart attack some time later. Nobody really payed for it (except for the lower rank employees).
VGA's dead on in his assessment.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 10:36 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: |
If this was a sham:
1. They wouldn't let us play so much of the universe already
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How much is "so much"? Last I checked it was more like "fuck all".
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2. They wouldn't be pouring so much money into engine development
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Who says engine development is actually seeing a dime? It may be their focus in press releases, but I bet internal memos spell out a different story.
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3. There would be a lot more shortcuts in the game to make it just work (see Elite Dangerous)
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Why would they bother with shortcuts to just make it work when the vast majority of people don't seem to give a care whether it does or not?
| Quote: |
Consider the fact that they are taking the most expensive approach to everything, only those with a lot of knowledge of how a game is made would know that there is a long list of things that their current engine/game can do that is a world first.
Why bother with that if its not intended to be legitimate?
|
And therein lies the problem. Assembling a team of relative unknowns practically overnight (with who knows what kind of experience level between them) only to attempt the most expensive, extravagant, and out of reach title ever devised.
What could possibly go wrong?
It's far too late (and far too costly) to admit that they're way out of their depth now. When faced with that kind of problem, the best course of action is to salvage what you can monetarily (scam as many suckers as you can) before the ship goes tits up. The fact that they're giving out refunds doesn't mean much, given that the majority of people can't be bothered to go through what's necessary to get one (or even know that it's a possibility to begin with). It's a "necessary evil" on their part to try and maintain the illusion of legitimacy as long as possible.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 10:48 Post subject: |
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The only reason they 'allow' people to 'play' their unfeasibly buggy, limited alpha demo is to try and keep the interest alive, to sell more concept art. The number of refund requests is becoming a haemorrhage of funding, which means they're desperately trying to push more and more stuff to keep the faithful interested.
When selling a product, it's generally accepted to at least make the prototype work. Of course, there's been many, many pre-release versions of games open to the public... and yes there can be a lot of bugs. However, it is usually more or less a complete game, and not just a microscopic example of a promised game, which SC - after 5 YEARS of development - is still showing the EXACT same PU as it did when it was first released. With a few extra stations.
After 5 years, I would expect a lot more than we're seeing, from ANY game. By all accounts, the version the evocati are 'testing' is horrendous with bugs that are in the 'game' from the beginning of the PU, and new bugs introduced with every patch.
Even Mass Effect Andromeda, with it's pitiful development team and troubled development cycle, still managed to throw out a full. complete game. Sure, it was buggy as hell with terrible animations and limited gameplay. But it was still a game, produced with less people than SC employs.
Roberts would do well to sell the entire thing off to a development company that knows what they're doing.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 11:40 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | | bart5986 wrote: |
If this was a sham:
1. They wouldn't let us play so much of the universe already
|
How much is "so much"? Last I checked it was more like "fuck all".
| Quote: |
2. They wouldn't be pouring so much money into engine development
|
Who says engine development is actually seeing a dime? It may be their focus in press releases, but I bet internal memos spell out a different story.
| Quote: |
3. There would be a lot more shortcuts in the game to make it just work (see Elite Dangerous)
|
Why would they bother with shortcuts to just make it work when the vast majority of people don't seem to give a care whether it does or not?
| Quote: |
Consider the fact that they are taking the most expensive approach to everything, only those with a lot of knowledge of how a game is made would know that there is a long list of things that their current engine/game can do that is a world first.
Why bother with that if its not intended to be legitimate?
|
And therein lies the problem. Assembling a team of relative unknowns practically overnight (with who knows what kind of experience level between them) only to attempt the most expensive, extravagant, and out of reach title ever devised.
What could possibly go wrong?
It's far too late (and far too costly) to admit that they're way out of their depth now. When faced with that kind of problem, the best course of action is to salvage what you can monetarily (scam as many suckers as you can) before the ship goes tits up. The fact that they're giving out refunds doesn't mean much, given that the majority of people can't be bothered to go through what's necessary to get one (or even know that it's a possibility to begin with). It's a "necessary evil" on their part to try and maintain the illusion of legitimacy as long as possible. |
1. Well its their entire universe which is more showing they aren't hiding anything. I still agree they are painfully slow.
2. They have a lot of staff working on the engine, the proof is literally in the game, planets etc. This one is obvious
3. Well if nobody cares then that proves my point, their primary goal is to make money, they will make the game eventually before people get sick of it.
4. They aren't out of their depth they are just taking three times as long as they originally thought to do what they want with the extra scope being to blame as well.
I am 100% sure they can make the game they want, the time it takes? well I'm not expecting Star Citizen at least until 2020. By maybe nobody will want it.
I'm not saying that the development or honest with the public has been good, I'm just saying that its pretty obvious the game will release eventually.
| Kaltern wrote: | The only reason they 'allow' people to 'play' their unfeasibly buggy, limited alpha demo is to try and keep the interest alive, to sell more concept art. The number of refund requests is becoming a haemorrhage of funding, which means they're desperately trying to push more and more stuff to keep the faithful interested.
When selling a product, it's generally accepted to at least make the prototype work. Of course, there's been many, many pre-release versions of games open to the public... and yes there can be a lot of bugs. However, it is usually more or less a complete game, and not just a microscopic example of a promised game, which SC - after 5 YEARS of development - is still showing the EXACT same PU as it did when it was first released. With a few extra stations.
After 5 years, I would expect a lot more than we're seeing, from ANY game. By all accounts, the version the evocati are 'testing' is horrendous with bugs that are in the 'game' from the beginning of the PU, and new bugs introduced with every patch.
Even Mass Effect Andromeda, with it's pitiful development team and troubled development cycle, still managed to throw out a full. complete game. Sure, it was buggy as hell with terrible animations and limited gameplay. But it was still a game, produced with less people than SC employs.
Roberts would do well to sell the entire thing off to a development company that knows what they're doing. |
The alpha demo can hurt them as much as it can gain them money.
Where is your source on refunds being anything but a drop in the ocean? More made up facts?
Star Citizen is the first game of its kind with its achievements, you can't compare it to another game unless you want Elite Dangerous, in which case go and play that.
And here we go, the sentence that shows you really have no clue what you are talking about.
You are talking about an MMO game with insane amounts of engine work and worldwide achievements that nobody has ever done before.
to...
a Single player game thrown together inside an already finished engine, unreal engine.
Seriously? 
Go and learn what game development is.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 12:14 Post subject: |
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Oh is he speaking again? Sorry, I only discuss things with adults - or those who show adult-like behaviour.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 17:01 Post subject: |
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Is this thread about Project Copernicus?! Because it seems so familiar....
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 18:10 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | |
Please stop giving bad advice. I rely on this thread in the morning while drinking my coffee or shitting at work. |
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VonMisk
Posts: 9468
Location: Hatredland
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 23:26 Post subject: |
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It can be entertaining indeed, but this is the tenth rerun of the same scene 
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 00:51 Post subject: |
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| VonMisk wrote: | | SpykeZ wrote: | | Kaltern wrote: | |
Please stop giving bad advice. I rely on this thread in the morning while drinking my coffee or shitting at work. |
I concur. |
I apologise
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =- |
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vaifan1986
Posts: 4640
Location: Birthplace of the necktie.
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 09:53 Post subject: |
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat, 21st Oct 2017 12:51 Post subject: |
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I'm going to call it. Loot boxes with the chance to win a (as yet unfinished) ship! What else could be in your box? Clothes... weapons... Money off coupons... Try your luck for only $4.99 a box!
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 05:32 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 05:49 Post subject: |
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| sip74 wrote: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RUWxsVmws |
Regardless if the game will ever come out or not its definitely the most impressive game that exists right now.
Game developers wish they could achieve the same type of game in their engines, but they can't.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51420
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 06:48 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: | | sip74 wrote: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RUWxsVmws |
Regardless if the game will ever come out or not its definitely the most impressive game that exists right now.
Game developers wish they could achieve the same type of game in their engines, but they can't. |
Spoken (or written, in this case) like a true fanboi. What game? There is no game.
There's, at best, the groundwork for what might one day become an actual tangible, playable game.
And as for the last part I'd agree, but add that actual, serious games developers just know better than jesus roberts.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 09:10 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: | | sip74 wrote: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RUWxsVmws |
Regardless if the game will ever come out or not, it's definitely the most impressive tech demo that exists right now.
Cloud Imperium Games wish they could achieve some type of game in their engine, but they can't. |
FIFY!11!!1
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 09:24 Post subject: |
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| sip74 wrote: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RUWxsVmws |
I am impressed. I envy my grandson. |
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 10:42 Post subject: |
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This bitch ever coming out?
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 18:37 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | Spoken (or written, in this case) like a true fanboi. What game? There is no game.
There's, at best, the groundwork for what might one day become an actual tangible, playable game.
And as for the last part I'd agree, but add that actual, serious games developers just know better than jesus roberts. |
Have you seen Elite Dangerous?
They could have taken the old alpha, added randomised computer generated cargo missions and destinations and it would be the exact same game.
You can't honestly think the current alpha is far from being classified as a game based on today's "quality"?
Obviously the game is a long way out simply because of the scope, but if the scope was thrown out the window it would be easy to finish. But as we know Chris Roberts will only increase the scope.
Game developers know better? Seriously?
We should be thanking Chris Roberts for actually trying to make a nice engine for gamers as we are generally just given garbage.
In terms of amazing engines recently, lets see...
Crysis 1 was amazing and came out in 2007.. and Star Citizen is built from that anyway.
Frostbite was amazing in 2010 with bad company 2, nothing but disappointment from future versions.
Rage was an amazing engine for GTA IV, in 2008.
The average developer would rather buy a Unity/Unreal license and slap together a generic game within the confines of their engine.
Part of this is because console CPU's are so slow its very difficult to actually make anything cool.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 28th Oct 2017 18:42 Post subject: |
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Great engine... this is just a modified overly hungry cryengine ffs.
Just look at the horrid performance the demo still has. 
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