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 Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2017 18:08 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | | And let me tell you this... you won't pay attention to all the bells and whistles they added if the game is compelling. Look at gta... it's the story that drives the game not the engine. |
I was going to respond to all your points but I think this sums up everything and proves my point.
You think you can make GTA with a different engine... you really have no clue do you?
| tonizito wrote: | ]No, that modern/custom build engine resulting in a better game stuff doesn't hold up at all.
Yes, I meant a game without all the features and a smaller (and locked down) scope, ofc. They could ditch the SP, some of the retarded fluff (that face crap tech or whatever), ditch ALL of the FPS stuff, etc.
Who the hell wants to play that kind of game? You missed everyone and their cat going nuts for No Man's Sky or something? IMO a game like that (but without sean's lies) would sell well enough. |
You don't think it doesn't result in a better game? Here are examples of engines and how they are limited out of the box.
Playerunknown Battlegrounds in Source Engine with only 32 players, smaller map required.
Battlefield BC, 3 and 4 in Unity - no destruction, less players likely.
Elder Scrolls Skyrim in Source Engine - Simply impossible without it being a completely different game.
I could go on but just research game developers and choosing engines and having to spend crazy amount of time on engines just to make them do the core mechanics of the game they are creating.
Can you imagine if they released portal without the ability to make portals because they just wanted to use the engine out of the box?
Modified or specially created engines are what makes a lot of great games.
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Stige
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tonizito
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2017 19:28 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: | You don't think it doesn't result in a better game? Here are examples of engines and how they are limited out of the box.
Playerunknown Battlegrounds in Source Engine with only 32 players, smaller map required.
Battlefield BC, 3 and 4 in Unity - no destruction, less players likely.
Elder Scrolls Skyrim in Source Engine - Simply impossible without it being a completely different game.
I could go on but just research game developers and choosing engines and having to spend crazy amount of time on engines just to make them do the core mechanics of the game they are creating.
Can you imagine if they released portal without the ability to make portals because they just wanted to use the engine out of the box?
Modified or specially created engines are what makes a lot of great games. |
- I had more fun with BF:BC2 than in any other BF game so far, runs on an older game engine with less features than the current iteration.
- Morrowind compltely blows away Skyrim, runs on an older game engine with less features than the current iteration.
- Dead Space vs Dead Space 2
- Mass Effect vs 2 and 3
- etc etc
I could also go on but do you get it now? A modern, bleeding edge, full of advanced features engine does not mean a better game.
From your posts it seems that you're already sure it's going to be a great game because it runs on an engine that was modified to go to lengths never seen before in a game but that... doesn't really mean that much? Sure, it has potential to be the greatest tech demo ever but that's it IMO.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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garus
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Oct 2017 20:18 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:33; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 00:07 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | Crytek Engine went to lengths never seen before and was used for a mediocre to average game. (Crysis) |
I liked Crysis ... until it went from a jungle shooter to alien crap. Exact same reason why Farcry was so flawed - good solid shooter that suddenly added aliens. What the hell is wrong just a Vietnam-style modern FPS?
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 00:50 Post subject: |
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Crysis is too flashy for it's own good. Even Unity can be used to make a fantastic looking game, if enough effort is put into it.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
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Morphineus
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 01:22 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | garus wrote: | | Crytek Engine went to lengths never seen before and was used for a mediocre to average game. (Crysis) |
I liked Crysis ... until it went from a jungle shooter to alien crap. Exact same reason why Farcry was so flawed - good solid shooter that suddenly added aliens. What the hell is wrong just a Vietnam-style modern FPS? |
Yup, that always bothered me as well. |
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 01:34 Post subject: |
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Hold on... you can't make a gta with a different engine?
All them clones use different engines...
True crime series...
what the hell... even saints row games use a different engine and they're way better than gta.
What are you talking about?
Any AAA studio can do a proper star citizen.
Look at what 3 guys in a flooded basement did with no mans sky.
Give those guys a story teller, a mission designer and you'd have a better star citizen put within 2 years.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 01:40 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | Hold on... you can't make a gta with a different engine?
All them clones use different engines...
True crime series...
what the hell... even saints row games use a different engine and they're way better than gta.
What are you talking about?
Any AAA studio can do a proper star citizen.
Look at what 3 guys in a flooded basement did with no mans sky.
Give those guys a story teller, a mission designer and you'd have a better star citizen put within 2 years. |
Sleeping Dogs.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 01:45 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: |
- I had more fun with BF:BC2 than in any other BF game so far, runs on an older game engine with less features than the current iteration.
- Morrowind compltely blows away Skyrim, runs on an older game engine with less features than the current iteration.
- Dead Space vs Dead Space 2
- Mass Effect vs 2 and 3
- etc etc
I could also go on but do you get it now? A modern, bleeding edge, full of advanced features engine does not mean a better game.
From your posts it seems that you're already sure it's going to be a great game because it runs on an engine that was modified to go to lengths never seen before in a game but that... doesn't really mean that much? Sure, it has potential to be the greatest tech demo ever but that's it IMO. |
What on earth are you talking about.
BF BC2 runs in Frostbite, thats why the game was good.
Morrowind uses Gamebryo, same as skyrim and oblivion.
These games can not exist on an out of the box engine from somewhere else. How can you not know this?
I have never said Star Citizen will be a great game, show me where I did that?
Star Citizen is going to be one of the most technically advanced games that will exist and for the first time will give us a complete space MMO.
It could be a terrible game to play but we won't know that until release but you can say that about every single game before it comes out.
| WaldoJ wrote: | Hold on... you can't make a gta with a different engine?
All them clones use different engines...
True crime series...
what the hell... even saints row games use a different engine and they're way better than gta.
What are you talking about?
Any AAA studio can do a proper star citizen.
Look at what 3 guys in a flooded basement did with no mans sky.
Give those guys a story teller, a mission designer and you'd have a better star citizen put within 2 years. |
And this is what I'm talking about, complete ignorance. I wonder why game developers even both to make a nice game when you will say that you can make the same GTA IV/V game in the true crime engine. I'm not even going to elaborate because you are obviously beyond help if you can't see why.
You are the reason why we have call of duty still using the same formula and engine since forever.
There is no AAA studio with an engine that can support Star Citizen right now, they would all need to put in crazy amounts of money and hours to modify their engines and plenty of engines would need to be made from scratch anyway.
And you think No Mans Sky is anything close to a space MMO? 
You could make No mans Sky in the source engine, its insanely basic because its single player and doesn't require anything complex at all. The most advanced thing in NMS is their random dinosaur generator which is nothing special.
You would have as much chance of making no mans sky into Star Citizen then you would have of using the call of duty engine. The No Mans Sky engine is just an amateur indie creation, nothing more.
I don't even know why I'm bothering, you probably think you can make Battlefield 1 using the runescape engine 
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Kaltern
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 02:24 Post subject: |
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Fifa never used to use Frostbite... they used their own IGNITE system - so yes, games can be written in other engines.
I think what some people forget is a 'game engine' is not purely about the graphics, but encompasses everything. Some game engines are clearly not capable of running certain games, because they were either specifically designed FOR that game or genre, or because they're simply not able to cope with the demands of the game.
However, other types of engine could easily be interchangeable with different games. I daresay GTA could, in some manner, be replicated in Unity (I wouldn't like to think how well it would run...) because Unity can be adapted to pretty much anything. Yet Crysis, as powerful and as advanced as it is, has limitations that were never designed to be met. Such as the ridiculous idea of cramming half a galaxy's worth of players into it's pretty pitiful netcode.
If RSI had put more thought into the engine of choice, instead of going with the shiniest, I daresay things would have be a LOT different.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 02:36 Post subject: |
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| Kaltern wrote: | Fifa never used to use Frostbite... they used their own IGNITE system - so yes, games can be written in other engines.
I think what some people forget is a 'game engine' is not purely about the graphics, but encompasses everything. Some game engines are clearly not capable of running certain games, because they were either specifically designed FOR that game or genre, or because they're simply not able to cope with the demands of the game.
However, other types of engine could easily be interchangeable with different games. I daresay GTA could, in some manner, be replicated in Unity (I wouldn't like to think how well it would run...) because Unity can be adapted to pretty much anything. Yet Crysis, as powerful and as advanced as it is, has limitations that were never designed to be met. Such as the ridiculous idea of cramming half a galaxy's worth of players into it's pretty pitiful netcode.
If RSI had put more thought into the engine of choice, instead of going with the shiniest, I daresay things would have be a LOT different. |
Fifa went from one proprietary engine (ignite) to another proprietary engine, frostbite. I'm not saying games can't be written in other engines, I'm saying that games, especially fancy/complex games can't be moved to another out of the box engine like unity/unreal etc.
I am very sure GTA couldn't run in Unity without insane modifications, it was probably easier to make their own engine. If you want to get an idea of Unity limitations, read the Rust Devblog, he details how he recodes many parts of the engine because the Unity implementation sucks.
Lets not forget GTA IV/V physics, procedural streaming of assets, AI, world size and so on. Even the unity of today is not equipped to handle that without crazy amounts of work, Unity was an absolute terrible engine back when GTA IV was being created.
I understand your point about RSI's engine choice but especially in 2012, there was no clear engine that was anywhere close, and even today Unity is a horrible choice for it. Its possible the very latest Unreal engine might suit it, but this is 5 years later, they can't do a DNF and start again...
I think the only realistic comment you could make is that RSI could have hired 10x more engine developers and created their own engine but we have no evidence if that would have reduced the time it would take to release or increased it. This wouldn't be any normal engine because the engine would be one of the most complicated engines to make and you can't start game development until the engine basics are complete.
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chiv
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 02:43 Post subject: |
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i havent been reading the whole thread.. i dont think its worth anyones time to really do it, but i do come in from time to time and skim a few posts...
one post i did read was the suggesting that gta v (or other gta games) were driven by story and that the engine wasnt important.
i would disagree. i dont know anyone who has ever played a gta game because of the story, because theyve always been pretty forgettable, especially later gta games. people play them, because of the mechanics and the visuals. you transport gta v's story into a linear game with basic shooting and remove the driving/open world mechanics, and no one would care about it... so id say thats a bad example.
and the reason why gta is such a juggernaut and does so much better than other similar open world games, is because - yes - the branding, but also because of the effort they put into the technical side of the game.
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 03:14 Post subject: |
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What technical side?
Does everyone forget that gta games are always buggy upon release?
Almost all the rockstar open world games were like that.
Vice city had a great story and with limited amount of things to do in gta games even though they're open world you end up focusing on the story.
Same goes with four and five. San Andreas being the technical staple of gta games of yore lacked a decent story and isn't memorable. But that game included many things we take for granted in gta games right now.
Also let's not forget gta5 running below 30 frames on initial release.
People still swallowed it up because grand theft auto.
Just like people bought Fifa year in and year out over pes.
Branding matters. It gives you rose tinted glasses.
I think the only game r* did that was a technological marvel was max Payne 3.
Look at games like saints row... gat out of hell...
That infernal affairs game... set in China that blew gta games out of water and what drove it was the story and the gameplay mechanic. Street fighting and all.
Engine helps create the game you want to make.
But you create the game you want and then build an engine around it.
There are so many open world games that aren't built on gta engine.
So many shooters not built on the quake two engine.
So many racing games not built on frostbyte.
So many action adventure games not built on the uncharted engine.
And a lot of them are spectacular.
Like...
This right now seems like RAGE. Focusing on an engine first and provide only a three hour game for 60 bucks. Lol
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65078
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 05:18 Post subject: |
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That feeling when
It would probably be time for me to say take it easy men and let it go, though since it's a discussion that shares the same nonexistent foundations as the game in question, it doesn't constitute off-topic 
(In all seriousness, as long as insults aren't thrown into the mix it's fine  . Just remember that people will read your posts, it's up to you to decide the amount of facepalms that they're going to self-inflict!*)
*the daily limit was surpassed :'(
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 05:25 Post subject: |
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That bart is trolling, was fun in the beginning now it's just sad.
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tonizito
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 09:10 Post subject: |
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| bart5986 wrote: | What on earth are you talking about.
BF BC2 runs in Frostbite, thats why the game was good.
Morrowind uses Gamebryo, same as skyrim and oblivion.
These games can not exist on an out of the box engine from somewhere else. How can you not know this?
I have never said Star Citizen will be a great game, show me where I did that?
Star Citizen is going to be one of the most technically advanced games that will exist and for the first time will give us a complete space MMO.
It could be a terrible game to play but we won't know that until release but you can say that about every single game before it comes out. |
What the hell are you talking about? Morrowind using the same Gamebryo version of oblivion and skyrim? BFBC2 the same frostbite version as BF3 and BF4? An out of the box engine?
what???
...you know what? Nevermind, enjoy the SC alpha betas until 2031 and keep dreaming I guess 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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WaldoJ
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 20:20 Post subject: |
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we got fooled boys...
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Oct 2017 20:27 Post subject: |
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Yer all a bunch of console players! 
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Morphineus
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 08:28 Post subject: |
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Sounds like SC indeed.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 09:23 Post subject: |
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I'm watching a stream now...
"I'm waiting for you in the cockpit"
"I'm already next to you, we are just lagging"
All this is happening at a glorious 12 fps.
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 14:34 Post subject: |
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Welcome. Welcome to the future of Game Development.
Remember.. it's just an Alpha. Bugs, optimization and frame rate all subject to improvement. As has been the case for 3 years now.
I challenge ANYONE to play this game, in the PU, at 1920x1080@60fps (you know, the absolute minimum standard for any flight-type simulation game), and I'll even throw in Medium Detail levels. (Arena Commander modes DO NOT COUNT as they are not the actual 'game')
And they had the audacity to consider this release as akin to Steam Early Access?
From a Eurogamer interview back in September: (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-29-star-citizen-would-be-the-worst-scam-in-the-world)
| Quote: | Chris Roberts: The term beta in terms of Star Citizen - with 3.0 the game is moving into a phase akin to Early Access. It'll build and grow from there, and then you could say 'well, it's not really Early Access anymore'. The price will probably go up a little bit and it will have much more of the features and content going on.
3.0 is the first time you'll have some of the basic game loops and mechanics. It's the first one which has proper persistence for your character, ship and items in terms of what their state is, their location is. When you log off and your ship is damaged, when you come back it'll still be damaged. There are a lot of jobs and options. The AI is still fairly basic - there's a lot more coming, but the AI... the previous 2.63 update was done the old scripted way. Now it's a scalable, modular mission system which designers can build from different blocks. We have procedural missions so there's a lot of 'go deliver something to this place', 'go identify a dead body on a spaceship', 'go after this particular pirate'. It's all templated up. There's a basic buying and selling mechanic, hauling cargo, the ability to earn and spend money on clothes, weapons, ship items or ship weapons. 3.1 will let you buy ships as well. And then from there we'll add more features for specific activities - mining, repair, building out more of the infrastructure for a dynamic universe. |
And people STILL defend this? The mind simply boggles.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
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Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 15:00 Post subject: |
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| sip74 wrote: | 3.0 available to 1st Wave testers, NDA lifted.
Checked out a stream and was greeted with no audio and floating NPC's all at a whopping 12fps.. |
The audacity of lifting an NDA to show 12fps? They really don't have a clue do they
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =- |
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 15:37 Post subject: |
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I've seen a streamer get 30+ fps which makes the game barely playable. Pity it is multiplayer.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Nov 2017 15:45 Post subject: |
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I am watching a stream now, seems the lag is because of shitty multiplayer code, with very few players in a server and good hardware it is playable.
Now I am trying to figure out where the gameplay/content is.
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| Page 229 of 274 |
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