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 Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 08:02 Post subject: |
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Turrets seem to have a much higher tendency to get headshots.
Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 08:54 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | | Bob Barnsen wrote: | | Turrets seem to have a much higher tendency to get headshots. |
For me 99% of pilot injuries stem from a missile salvo fired at one of my mechs. It doesn't matter if the mech has full armor, 5 evasion pips, entrenchment - if some little fucker fires a salvo at it and more than half hit the fuckwit piloting the mech bangs his head. Guess they don't have airbags in the future.  |
This is what I have noticed as well, it seemed to always be indirect enemy LRM 20s, more so if it comes from a turret or missile vehicle, as, I guess, they have LRM 30 - 50s. I assumed that there was some kind of cooldown on getting headshot this way, though.
For example, I failed the story mission with the 8 ammo crates (that you can blow up to damage enemy mechs) a couple of times because I was trying to not destroy any of the crates, and got overrun. In that mission, one of the turrets, and 2 of the mechs rained 100s of LRMs on me. The first or second salvo would always be 1 headshot, and then I would not get hit with another headshot from indirect missile rain in the next 6-8 turns.
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 08:59 Post subject: |
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| FirewaterBurns wrote: | | Immunity wrote: | | Bob Barnsen wrote: | | Turrets seem to have a much higher tendency to get headshots. |
For me 99% of pilot injuries stem from a missile salvo fired at one of my mechs. It doesn't matter if the mech has full armor, 5 evasion pips, entrenchment - if some little fucker fires a salvo at it and more than half hit the fuckwit piloting the mech bangs his head. Guess they don't have airbags in the future. |
This is what I have noticed as well, it seemed to always be indirect enemy LRM 20s, more so if it comes from a turret or missile vehicle, as, I guess, they have LRM 30 - 50s. I assumed that there was some kind of cooldown on getting headshot this way, though.
For example, I failed the story mission with the 8 ammo crates (that you can blow up to damage enemy mechs) a couple of times because I was trying to not destroy any of the crates, and got overrun. In that mission, one of the turrets, and 2 of the mechs rained 100s of LRMs on me. The first or second salvo would always be 1 headshot, and then I would not get hit with another headshot from indirect missile rain in the next 6-8 turns. |
Now that I think about it, it DOES seem to happen more frequently with indirect arc fire (where the missiles rain down on top of your head, rather than hitting the mech's face). You've probably got something there.
Also, if you encounter one of those SLMR 60 vehicles, prioritize that bastard and kill him before anything else - cause once he closes range it's like 2 salvos of 60 rockets (but that's pretty mid/late game). Knocked my heavy mech clean on its ass in one turn. 
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 09:06 Post subject: |
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Any critical hit to the head will cause an injury. The reason missiles generally score more is because each weapon has a single chance to score a head crit, so something like an AC or PPC can only ever score a single head crit. Missiles, however, get a single crit per salvo, so if you have, say, 4 x LRM5s, you get 4 chances at a head crit. Additionally, while only one missile per salvo can score a head crit, if the first missile hits the head then all the other missiles in that salvo have a chance to hit the head and score a crit if one hasn't occurred yet. This is the same reason that MGs are such great head crit dealers.
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 12:29 Post subject: |
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Every missile on an LRM or SRM salvo has it's hit location rolled separately, so it's naturally more likely that the head will get hit by a missile. This chance is 1% per missile if no called shot is made. Any hit to the head causes a pilot injury. However, you can only cause one injury per attack, so if three missiles and a laser hit the head during one volley, only one injury is caused.
It's the same chance for the player though, so not really unfair. I've popped a lot of random heads with PPC's and autocannons.
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 17:08 Post subject: |
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No, you need a crit to cause an injury. Death only happens if you destroy the head section. You can get an injury without even breaching the armour.
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 18:44 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | No, you need a crit to cause an injury. Death only happens if you destroy the head section. You can get an injury without even breaching the armour. |
I dont think thats right, the tutorial I read said crits only happen on structure damage, meaning all armor is destroyed.
Either way I just had it all happen again, 4 headshots in one level, 2 pilots dead on near full health mechs and the head wasnt destroyed, just 2 head injuries each.
Funnily I just did the level where you get friendly turrets and they were doing head shots on enemy mechs but damned if i've ever done one. Seems the AI just gets a headshot bonus.
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| Posted: Tue, 1st May 2018 20:33 Post subject: |
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You had KIAs with only 2 injuries each? That shouldn't be possible as far as I know, outside of the "lethal damage" that can occur with head destruction (like 95% chance or something). Even if you take your maximum number of injuries, which should be a minimum of 3, there's still a chance to survive with a Guts roll at the end of the mission.
Unless the pilots had some debuff. Did they implement permanent debilitation? Did your pilots only have 2 health? I recall hearing something about that, but I haven't seen it myself so I'm not sure if it was just a concept they were floating around or whether it is actually in the game.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 06:17 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | You had KIAs with only 2 injuries each? That shouldn't be possible as far as I know, outside of the "lethal damage" that can occur with head destruction (like 95% chance or something). Even if you take your maximum number of injuries, which should be a minimum of 3, there's still a chance to survive with a Guts roll at the end of the mission.
Unless the pilots had some debuff. Did they implement permanent debilitation? Did your pilots only have 2 health? I recall hearing something about that, but I haven't seen it myself so I'm not sure if it was just a concept they were floating around or whether it is actually in the game. |
Yep can confirm on at least one of my guys 2 headshots was a kill, I dont think his head was destroyed but it might have been a crit on the second shot as it was an MG spray.
Unless you can take 2 injuries at once, like the headshot is 1 and the crit is 2 but both at the same time? or maybe crits to head have chance to insta kill?
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mtj
Posts: 2315
Location: Austria / Finland
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 08:03 Post subject: |
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Speeding up the game made it much more enjoyable.
I used the method to enable the debugger and click the 'speed' button there.
Makes it fast enough, though there's still some waiting involved related to the chatter of the pilots.
But yea, in general the missions now take 10-20 minutes instead of close to an hour at worst. (some are even like 5 minutes. including the loading times)
Intel Core I-9 9900K @ stock, ASUS Z 390A MoBo, 32GB 3.6GHz, Zotac 3090 | BeQuiet 1000W PSU, Be Quiet Dark Base Pro 900 case, 49" Samsung G9
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 08:23 Post subject: |
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| Auran13 wrote: | Yep can confirm on at least one of my guys 2 headshots was a kill, I dont think his head was destroyed but it might have been a crit on the second shot as it was an MG spray.
Unless you can take 2 injuries at once, like the headshot is 1 and the crit is 2 but both at the same time? or maybe crits to head have chance to insta kill? |
My understanding was you could only take a single wound per round of firing, but can take additional wounds in the same round for things like side torso destruction and falling over.
The post-battle report should show exactly how many wounds each pilot took vs their health. I gather you didn't closely inspect that?
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 09:00 Post subject: |
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So I've gotten to the final story mission. I'll put this in spoilers even though it's not really a spoiler in regards to the story and more of a "make sure you're aware of this as you're playing"...
 Spoiler: |
The final mission requires you to field multiple full lances. It doesn't say how many, but I'm going to guess it's going to require 3 separate lances of 4, so 12 mechs and pilots
I've been playing the entire game rotating out more or less 4 to 6 of the same mechs (throwing out the ones I felt have been eclipsed), with pretty much 4 main pilots and 2 subs. Who knows how much fucking grinding I've got ahead of me before I can successfully finish this.
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Dumb fucking design decision.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 12:19 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | So I've gotten to the final story mission. I'll put this in spoilers even though it's not really a spoiler in regards to the story and more of a "make sure you're aware of this as you're playing"...
| Spoiler: |
The final mission requires you to field multiple full lances. It doesn't say how many, but I'm going to guess it's going to require 3 separate lances of 4, so 12 mechs and pilots
I've been playing the entire game rotating out more or less 4 to 6 of the same mechs (throwing out the ones I felt have been eclipsed), with pretty much 4 main pilots and 2 subs. Who knows how much fucking grinding I've got ahead of me before I can successfully finish this.
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Dumb fucking design decision. |
Regarding your concerns about final mission:
| Spoiler: |
Actually you don't need more than a 4 pilots/mechs unless you lose pilot or mech on 1st part of final mission which is quite easy with all the friendly units around. Then there's a 2nd part for which you can use the same 3 pilots if they were uninjured and also same mechs even if they got damaged their armor will be repaired, Kamea is filling 1 slot. All in all the final mission is a breeze, don't sweat it. 
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Really enjoyed this game - solid 7.5/10, could be easily 8/10 if there were no performance issues, also needs option to speed up animations.
I'm actually surprised by the depth of tactical gameplay here, it's much more complex than e.g. new x-coms which are among my favourite games.
I watched some gameplay vids from beta or sth and at first it appeared to me shallow and primitive but it's not. I hope there will be some big expansion down the line maybe adding the strategic layer, that would be cool.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 12:32 Post subject: |
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There is some tactical depth, but the gameplay is quite exploitable. Stability damage is just too overpowered. If you have a couple of LRM mechs with extra stability damage, you can knockdown pretty much any enemy in 1-2 salvos.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 12:37 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | Auran13 wrote: | Yep can confirm on at least one of my guys 2 headshots was a kill, I dont think his head was destroyed but it might have been a crit on the second shot as it was an MG spray.
Unless you can take 2 injuries at once, like the headshot is 1 and the crit is 2 but both at the same time? or maybe crits to head have chance to insta kill? |
My understanding was you could only take a single wound per round of firing, but can take additional wounds in the same round for things like side torso destruction and falling over.
The post-battle report should show exactly how many wounds each pilot took vs their health. I gather you didn't closely inspect that? |
nope I rage quit haha but i did look down at his portrait and he was dead with only 2 wounds
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 12:53 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | There is some tactical depth, but the gameplay is quite exploitable. Stability damage is just too overpowered. If you have a couple of LRM mechs with extra stability damage, you can knockdown pretty much any enemy in 1-2 salvos. |
You can't knockdown in 1 salvo, you need to destabilize mech first. Knocked down mech might even stand up in the next phase so sometimes it's just injuring the pilot and nothing else. Standing up costs nothing, you still have full action. It is balanced well enough in my opinion, for a single-player game that is.
The game is exploitable just as any other with RNG with unlimited save/load, but why would you ruin your experience?
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 13:25 Post subject: |
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| Tschoob wrote: | | Nodrim wrote: | | There is some tactical depth, but the gameplay is quite exploitable. Stability damage is just too overpowered. If you have a couple of LRM mechs with extra stability damage, you can knockdown pretty much any enemy in 1-2 salvos. |
You can't knockdown in 1 salvo, you need to destabilize mech first. Knocked down mech might even stand up in the next phase so sometimes it's just injuring the pilot and nothing else. Standing up costs nothing, you still have full action. It is balanced well enough in my opinion, for a single-player game that is.
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If you have a trebuchet/catapult mech full of LRMs with extra stability damage, you can fully destabilize an enemy mech in one turn. So what if he stands up the next turn? You don't pick a target with the initiative value that's next in line to move. Knocking down a mech opens it up to focused fire and also inflicts a wound on the mechwarrior. That's more than enough to gain a huge advantage. Usually 3 knockdowns means the mech is out, but you can speed the process by just targeting the CT.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 15:20 Post subject: |
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LRM spam is super effective in the first half of the game, but it's far less powerful against assaults. They strand up straight away, since they can't move back to a further phase. They don't even drop to the bottom of the queue, so they will still move before your assaults most of the time. Added to that, on 4/5 skull missions, the pilots will often have 5 or 6 wounds from a high/maxed Guts stat. Even multiple knockdowns are an inefficient means of incapacitating them. You still get the callled shots of course, so it's not completely without benefit, but they have a hell of a lot more armour, so it's not as simple as knockdown and kill in one turn.
I've had two LRM boats up to now, given how effective they have been. But now I am thinking about switching one out for a more targeted damage dealer with some ACs. It will still have a few LRMs for the stability damage, but I am starting to feel the need for more punch after going through a number of missions where I have faced being rushed by half a dozen assaults simultaneously.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 16:45 Post subject: |
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Precision shot can be used as an ability at the cost of Morale or free if the enemy mech is knocked down.
I use melee attacks against mechs with lower tonnage or when the situation calls it (out of ammo, not in effective range, high heat, etc.). It's ok to use it against downed mechs.
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 17:09 Post subject: |
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| mtj wrote: | Speeding up the game made it much more enjoyable.
I used the method to enable the debugger and click the 'speed' button there.
Makes it fast enough, though there's still some waiting involved related to the chatter of the pilots.
But yea, in general the missions now take 10-20 minutes instead of close to an hour at worst. (some are even like 5 minutes. including the loading times) |
I just use Cheatengine with 2x speedhack.
Combat is so much more enjoyable that way.
Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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| Posted: Wed, 2nd May 2018 17:22 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | What's up with those called shots? I get them using Morale and selecting Precision shots or when the enemy mech is down, right? I want to target the head but the percentage is something like 2%  |
I save morale for using Vigilance mostly. Use called shots when you get a mech to fall over. Typically you'll go straight for the CT if you want quick kills. If you are trying to farm parts, you can aim for either LT or RT, especially if it has ammo, to cause an injury. You can aim for a leg, but that is best when they are standing as leg destruction causes an instant fall regardless of stability. Aiming for the head is almost always a waste of a shot.
| VGAdeadcafe wrote: |
Also, how often do you use Melee? Should I use Melee on downed Mechs? |
Only melee with mechs that have a decent amount of melee damage (early on, the Shadow Hawk, for example). It is a good tactic for mechs that are overheating, as melee doesn't generate any heat so you can cool down and still do some damage. It's also a good tactic against fast movers that have a mass of evasion chevrons, as melee ignores evasion. It also removes Guarded, so it can be useful to use it first against a target that is dug in before shooting with everyone else.
| VGAdeadcafe wrote: |
And what's up with the pilot skills, why are they so few? You get the Guts to where you get 4 injuries, then you max Piloting and Guns on most mechs and Tactics on utility mechs? Right? |
All your pilots will end up being 10/10/10/10, assuming they live long enough. You just have to decide what 2 skill lines you want skills from.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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