His engine developers, which have done nothing but develop the engine, have still not finished it.
The amount of work for engine developers has not gone up dramatically, so your base game wouldn't have come out that much sooner as the original scope for this game was already huge.
Well, if you dont count switching engines after years of development, as extra workload, sure, their work has stayed relatively even...
Well, if you dont count switching engines after years of development, as extra workload, sure, their work has stayed relatively even...
They switched from Cryengine from Crytek to Cryengine from Amazon, and the switch was quite smooth and didn't take that long (as you hear about in the lawsuit)
You are making it sound like they switched to Unreal engine or something which isn't true.
As you can see, Elite Dangerous fakes it, Star Citizen does not.
What? that video proves absolutely nothing! All you did was link to a series of pictures (showing yet another SC bug I see ). I have no idea what you are expecting exactly. SC's quantum drive does pretty much exactly what ED's FSD does in a system - allow you to travel from point A to point B quickly. The HUGE difference is that SC's quantum drive makes you pick a specific taget, whereas ED's FSD does not - and gives you complete freedom to fly pretty much anywhere you want.
Also, SC's quantum drive is much, much faster than FSD, meaning you zip around the system far quicker. Now while I admittedly think there should be something similar in ED, mainly because of some of the huge distances some systems have planets from the central star, it is NOT loading anything while in supercruise. Supercruise is seamless, until you drop out into any part of space you wish - then it'll load an instance of those coordinates. SC's system is completely different, in that it's loading an instance 'bubble' as you fly in quantum drive. This is how virtually ALL MMO games run, and it works - but as is so painfully evident, it causes horrific server lag, when the system is trying to keep track of literally everything.
Now... if ED was magically transferred to a full hosted server system, then it could probably USE an instance bubble to keep things a little more seamless between SC and normal space. However (and this is the main point) - the way ED is set up.. there is absolutely no point in doing it that way. Nothing would be gained. In fact, I would go as far to say that if SC had moved to a more instanced setup, it wouldn't suffer half the network issues it is right now.
Would I like to see actual ships in ED's supercruise? I don't know. Supercruise is more or less the same as Star Trek's warp drive, just a lot slower. In warp, you would not see other ships around you, unless they were travelling in your own warp bubble (yes yes, I know, I've seen the episodes where that wasn't strictly the case...) as your point of spacetime reference is different to everyone elses - noone would see you zip past from a different point in space, for example. So as much as accuracy can be attributed to a fictional method of travel, within General Relativity (as much as you can anyway), ED has it down. There is nothing to compare quantum drive to, as it is it's own system, with no relation to the known laws of physics. But in ED, youwould not see smaller objects while in SC because you wouldn't know their exact point of reference in spacetime, and as you are travelling faster-than-light, you would not be able to physically 'see' them - thats why the ships sensors pick other objects up and show them as light trails, or the USS, which while admittedly a little crude, is probably the most accurate way of determining if something is stationary in normal space.
Star Citizen might look prettier, but looks are definitely not everything.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
What? that video proves absolutely nothing! All you did was link to a series of pictures (showing yet another SC bug I see ). I have no idea what you are expecting exactly. SC's quantum drive does pretty much exactly what ED's FSD does in a system - allow you to travel from point A to point B quickly. The HUGE difference is that SC's quantum drive makes you pick a specific taget, whereas ED's FSD does not - and gives you complete freedom to fly pretty much anywhere you want.
Also, SC's quantum drive is much, much faster than FSD, meaning you zip around the system far quicker. Now while I admittedly think there should be something similar in ED, mainly because of some of the huge distances some systems have planets from the central star, it is NOT loading anything while in supercruise. Supercruise is seamless, until you drop out into any part of space you wish - then it'll load an instance of those coordinates. SC's system is completely different, in that it's loading an instance 'bubble' as you fly in quantum drive. This is how virtually ALL MMO games run, and it works - but as is so painfully evident, it causes horrific server lag, when the system is trying to keep track of literally everything.
Now... if ED was magically transferred to a full hosted server system, then it could probably USE an instance bubble to keep things a little more seamless between SC and normal space. However (and this is the main point) - the way ED is set up.. there is absolutely no point in doing it that way. Nothing would be gained. In fact, I would go as far to say that if SC had moved to a more instanced setup, it wouldn't suffer half the network issues it is right now.
Would I like to see actual ships in ED's supercruise? I don't know. Supercruise is more or less the same as Star Trek's warp drive, just a lot slower. In warp, you would not see other ships around you, unless they were travelling in your own warp bubble (yes yes, I know, I've seen the episodes where that wasn't strictly the case...) as your point of spacetime reference is different to everyone elses - noone would see you zip past from a different point in space, for example. So as much as accuracy can be attributed to a fictional method of travel, within General Relativity (as much as you can anyway), ED has it down. There is nothing to compare quantum drive to, as it is it's own system, with no relation to the known laws of physics. But in ED, youwould not see smaller objects while in SC because you wouldn't know their exact point of reference in spacetime, and as you are travelling faster-than-light, you would not be able to physically 'see' them - thats why the ships sensors pick other objects up and show them as light trails, or the USS, which while admittedly a little crude, is probably the most accurate way of determining if something is stationary in normal space.
Star Citizen might look prettier, but looks are definitely not everything.
The picture, description and the video posted shows you can fly to a destination WITHOUT quantum drive.
The video in Elite Dangerous shows that if you fly without Frame Shift Drive, you won't go anywhere.
* If you Frame Shift Drive into a random place, you won't go anywhere, if two players FSD in the same spot, they won't be able to see each other as the space they are in isn't real, its a temporary map.
* Elite Dangerous's Supercruise is literally just a world map that you can fly around, there is no tech behind it that makes it anything more then that.
* You said ED wouldn't benefit from a full hosted server system, yet it would remove most of the easy cheating that most people do today that has no chance of ever being caught.
ED is old tech with a lot of bandaids on it to make it feel like its current gen, the engine is terrible in terms of what it can do.
Actually you are so wrong it's making me laugh far too loudly
You CAN, in fact, fly from one side of a star system to another in normal space. Of course, you will die of old age before you get very far because space is big. However, it's been shown time and time again, that if you fly near enough to say, a space station, without it being visible, if you fly towards it long enough it WILL eventually show up.
The idea of dropping from supercruise in exactly the same place is impossible. You cannot accurately just drop into the same area of space without using a beacon to do so. However, you are correct when you say you drop into an instance, because as I previously mentioned, space is big. Instancing an ENTIRE star system, with real scale, would be impossible for even the most powerful super computers, and you thinking SC does anything similar is really showing your lack of knowledge.
SC IS a map, as you somehow describe ED's star systems to be. The only difference is SC maps are 3D, but everything is hand placed, and while it DOES look graphically impressive, I can't possibly imagine this being done for the number of systems proposed for SC, with every system's POI's being hand placed, every planet being populated and buildings placed manually, and every game mission being coded manually.. never going to happen in my lifetime. Think about it. Assuming every star system in the SC universe has say, an average of 5 planets. 2 of these planets are rocky, so let's assume they each have a station of some kind. Let's also be very kind and suggest only one planet is landable, and has structures.
That is 3 space based structures, and lets assume 2 cities on the planet. That's 5 seperate constructs, which according to SC, will all be fully traversable, and will have rooms, NPC's, shops, other POI's...
Now, keep in mind that Robert's original stretchgoal was 100 systems AT LAUNCH, and this was recently changed to be 5-10 systems at launch. Apart from that being a ridiculously low number of systems, which will VERY quickly become quite boring, and yet another example of a pathetic overestimation of what could be done - but STILL adding it as a fairytale stretch goal - look at the amount of work to be done.
Let's be incredibly generous, and suggest they manage to complete the full 10 systems. Using my very broad, and VERY generous estimates, that's 50 structures to fill with missions, NPC's, items, rooms, ships, and all the ususal clutter you find in structures. All handplaced. Now, compare this to say, World of Warcraft, or Everquest II, 2 of the longest running MMORPG games in history, and they might exceed these, but they've had over a decade since COMPLETION to do this. Originally, there were nowhere near the same level of complexity. And Robert's, borrowing Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field, has been promising what amounted to 500 - FIVE HUNDRED - buildings? And now cut to 50?
This is why he is no longer taken seriously by those with intelligence. ED, while admittedly as flat as a pancake when it comes of deep, meaningful content, was never designed to be a space MMORPG as SC is, so it can't really be compared. And the current storylines going on in ED are finally showing something of interest, which has taken a few years, but still a shorter development time than SC...
Oh, and your continual comments about 'cheating'. I've yet to see any actual evidence of this. Besides combat logging (which is in virtually ever MMO in history) - which only really affects griefers and gankers, I don't really see anything in the forums about the wanton cheating you continually go on about. Yes it's P2P. Yes, this has it's own issues with server limits (although I've noticed in the recent updates, this is becoming less of a problem thankfully), but with the game designed as it is, a server hosted system would be VERY expensive, and would only ever be of interest to the PVP minority - and as they ARE a minority, are not really an important consideration.
Your arguments are becoming more and more strawman which is unfortunate.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
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Actually you are so wrong it's making me laugh far too loudly
You CAN, in fact, fly from one side of a star system to another in normal space. Of course, you will die of old age before you get very far because space is big. However, it's been shown time and time again, that if you fly near enough to say, a space station, without it being visible, if you fly towards it long enough it WILL eventually show up.
The idea of dropping from supercruise in exactly the same place is impossible. You cannot accurately just drop into the same area of space without using a beacon to do so. However, you are correct when you say you drop into an instance, because as I previously mentioned, space is big. Instancing an ENTIRE star system, with real scale, would be impossible for even the most powerful super computers, and you thinking SC does anything similar is really showing your lack of knowledge.
SC IS a map, as you somehow describe ED's star systems to be. The only difference is SC maps are 3D, but everything is hand placed, and while it DOES look graphically impressive, I can't possibly imagine this being done for the number of systems proposed for SC, with every system's POI's being hand placed, every planet being populated and buildings placed manually, and every game mission being coded manually.. never going to happen in my lifetime. Think about it. Assuming every star system in the SC universe has say, an average of 5 planets. 2 of these planets are rocky, so let's assume they each have a station of some kind. Let's also be very kind and suggest only one planet is landable, and has structures.
That is 3 space based structures, and lets assume 2 cities on the planet. That's 5 seperate constructs, which according to SC, will all be fully traversable, and will have rooms, NPC's, shops, other POI's...
Now, keep in mind that Robert's original stretchgoal was 100 systems AT LAUNCH, and this was recently changed to be 5-10 systems at launch. Apart from that being a ridiculously low number of systems, which will VERY quickly become quite boring, and yet another example of a pathetic overestimation of what could be done - but STILL adding it as a fairytale stretch goal - look at the amount of work to be done.
Let's be incredibly generous, and suggest they manage to complete the full 10 systems. Using my very broad, and VERY generous estimates, that's 50 structures to fill with missions, NPC's, items, rooms, ships, and all the ususal clutter you find in structures. All handplaced. Now, compare this to say, World of Warcraft, or Everquest II, 2 of the longest running MMORPG games in history, and they might exceed these, but they've had over a decade since COMPLETION to do this. Originally, there were nowhere near the same level of complexity. And Robert's, borrowing Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field, has been promising what amounted to 500 - FIVE HUNDRED - buildings? And now cut to 50?
This is why he is no longer taken seriously by those with intelligence. ED, while admittedly as flat as a pancake when it comes of deep, meaningful content, was never designed to be a space MMORPG as SC is, so it can't really be compared. And the current storylines going on in ED are finally showing something of interest, which has taken a few years, but still a shorter development time than SC...
Oh, and your continual comments about 'cheating'. I've yet to see any actual evidence of this. Besides combat logging (which is in virtually ever MMO in history) - which only really affects griefers and gankers, I don't really see anything in the forums about the wanton cheating you continually go on about. Yes it's P2P. Yes, this has it's own issues with server limits (although I've noticed in the recent updates, this is becoming less of a problem thankfully), but with the game designed as it is, a server hosted system would be VERY expensive, and would only ever be of interest to the PVP minority - and as they ARE a minority, are not really an important consideration.
Your arguments are becoming more and more strawman which is unfortunate.
I literally posted a video proving that you couldn't do that in Elite Dangerous. Once again, no you can't fly anywhere in Elite Dangerous, you will simply stay inside your map and nothing new will load. Supercruise/FSD is your world map/fast travel button.
And actually your idea that you can't drop in the exact same place is wrong. I've played a lot of ED with friends, you can go right next to each other where you can see the big bright light of other players, and if you both drop together on top of each other, you won't be able to see each other.
Star Citizen is one map, for the entire universe, Elite Dangerous is a million maps one for each location, and a newly generated one for each location you drop out of supercruise that isn't an existing map.
The friend that I winged with in ED used cheats for a while before he stopped playing, he was never got caught and it was a simple shield buff cheat that prevented him from losing the shield, which meant he could never die.
Ahahahah, so the more people play, the worse FPS you get even if you don't see them?
It renders everything.
Its on the roadmap to be fixed but I'm honestly not sure which update it will be.
Not sure why it surprises you though, if you look at the roadmap its very clear they haven't finished the network/multiplayer engine features which might possibly make Star Citizen possible as an MMO.
Ahahahah, so the more people play, the worse FPS you get even if you don't see them?
It renders everything.
Its on the roadmap to be fixed but I'm honestly not sure which update it will be.
Not sure why it surprises you though, if you look at the roadmap its very clear they haven't finished the network/multiplayer engine features which might possibly make Star Citizen possible as an MMO.
I thought switching to lumberyard was going to fix all these issues any chance you could link this roadmap?
I thought switching to lumberyard was going to fix all these issues
Definitely not, it was never meant to fix these issues.
My understanding is that Lumberyard is a CryEngine fork with random things that Amazon wanted to add, but none of those changes would have anything to do with Star Citizen as its not their game.
My understanding is the main benefit of Lumberyard for Star Citizen is connecting to Amazon servers rather then their own servers for MMO. And having constant engine updates being available to be pulled into the game when they want.
Ongoing performance improvements with specific quarterly goals to increase overall framerate among all PC specs.
nothing vague there at all, hopefully next patch we see a 3-5x performance boost as i think thats what is required for top line hardware to run this thing in a playable state.
Ongoing performance improvements with specific quarterly goals to increase overall framerate among all PC specs.
nothing vague there at all, hopefully next patch we see a 3-5x performance boost as i think thats what is required for top line hardware to run this thing in a playable state.
I don't think so.
v3.3 has Network Entity Streaming which appears to be one of the key issues due game performance in the MMO environment (as Offline is fine)
v3.4 has Server Meshing and Parallel Network Jobs which will also greatly improve MMO performance as the MMO performance is great when the player count and object count is low, and as mentioned the game works fine offline.
What does this mean in terms of time?
Likely December 2018 - January for the performance to be good enough to actually play, right now its unplayable.
How long until its an actual playable space MMO? 2020-2021 has always been my guess.
Last week, Cloud Imperium began teasing a brand-new concept ship for Star Citizen, the Hercules Starlifter and its variants. While most gamers will roll their eyes at paying for pixel ships, a lot of people made the mad dash to buy it because (of course they did).
The problem is that, thanks to last year’s changes, players can no longer purchase new concept ships with lifetime insurance with store credit, which means you can’t just melt down your old ships and trade them in for the insured Starlifter – you have to pay cash for this one if you want the insurance. And did I mention it runs up to $600 in cash ($700 on credit without LTI)?
So some folks are mad because they’re being discouraged from using store credit, not just “rewarding the use of fresh cash” but “catering almost solely to new cash.” That’s led players – even rather highly placed backers – to argue that CIG is shooting itself in the foot.
“CIG has cut off what was likely a large source of revenue for themselves by dropping LTI from non-Warbond concept ships, all in an effort to drive people to spend new money instead of melting ships and spending credits on the new ones,” one wrote on Reddit. “Warbond discounts were the carrot to drive people to spend new money. All well and good. Removing LTI from non-Warbond concept sales is the stick. It’s not right. I hope that I’m wrong and that it brings them more money in the long run, but it won’t be my money.”
A whole other subset of backers – and a far bigger one – is concerned as much about the bigger picture that the ship promotions are “getting out of control” as more recent ship promos (the Consolidated Outland Pioneer is flagged as one of the worst) are offered up for increasingly high prices at increasingly short intervals without a design document, such that sometimes they sell out for hundreds of dollars before anyone even knows what he/she is buying.
Quote:
“Warbond ships were introduced in 2017 and they provided an incentive for backers to spend new money rather than melting and using store credit. It started off giving a 10% discount and an extra flair item. With the Hercules it’s evolved into a 20% discount plus a vehicle. But again we’re being sold a $350 to $700 ship without any real details. No specs, no design post or anything. Not only that when people use store credit they don’t get LTI anymore, but that was never communicated to us. If LTI is going to be Warbond only then say it, don’t leave it for us to find out.”
Some people seem to be playing SC as if it was a complete finished game. It's basically stuck in it's alpha stage (it's far from feature complete) and won't be interesting for anyone that want to PLAY the game.
Is this even legal what they are doing, selling so overpriced stuff to a game that does not exist, seems that money keeps coming and coming, people really are insane supporting this scam. What´s next, they start selling Chris Roberts cum in a box for 10k.
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any chance you could link this roadmap?
