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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7570
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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 Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 12:55 Post subject: |
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| Kanint wrote: | | h0rnyfavn wrote: | @Kanint
What difficulty (and party level) is this? |
Level 6 and Veteran. Fight was a pain since the boss would hit for more HP than my characters had. All I could really do is spam abilities to make it less likely for the boss to hit, with those abilities themselves having low odds of working since the boss had high resists. I got it eventually, but luck played a part. |
I think I returned to that after leveling to 8 or 9. The quest is marked as being on your level, but that fucker will show up as red.
Game does seem a bit easy now. With all the free roaming in the big world, there's plenty of stuff to do to level up beyond what's required for a quest.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 14:46 Post subject: |
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I just reached the bathhouse with all of the dicks hanging free.
10/10
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| Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 15:03 Post subject: |
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Just beat the game, and boy oh boy did they forget (read as 'retcon') a ton of important stuff well established in the first game.
Whoever's been writing PoE needs to step aside and let someone else handle head writing duties.
The Sid Meier's Pirates! aspect was fun, wish it got more polish. Gameplay is less tedious than the first game, but the story is just so very much shit.
Vague spoilers:
 Spoiler: | You could have just gone, "Yeah no thanks Berath, I'm good with passing on from this mortal coil." and died at the start of the game, and it wouldn't matter because the Watcher has 0 contribution to the story. |
So yeah, calling the player the Watcher is right because that's all he does.
Gustave the Steel
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 15:11 Post subject: |
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I'm going to put my reply into a spoiler tag, just to be sure:
| Spoiler: |
I don't see a problem if we can't influence how the main story unfolds. Some things should be out of the protagonist's reach, even more so in a universe where gods have such prominent roles. That being said, I stopped with the main story quests at Magran's Teeth, so I really don't know what happens. But I'm fine if Eothas' plan is put into action and I can't do anything about it.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 15:24 Post subject: |
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A main quest that makes you go, 'well what the fuck was the point of having me do all this?' is a problem.
I wouldn't mind if they made the privateering the main story thing and you get a privateer main quest with the dumb shit Eothas is doing as just background info.
Eothas is heading where now? Oh Ok, guess I'll just go avoid that place, but that also means bananas are now going to be more expensive since he is heading for the main banana port, better stock up now to sell later.
My issue is this. You didn't have to be the Watcher in this game. It would have worked out fine if you were just a ship's captain who has never left the Deadfire Archipelago. Would have been better really.
Just make a Sid Meier's Pirates RPG.
Gustave the Steel
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 14th May 2018 15:27 Post subject: |
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I tend to disagree, I'll see when I finish the story. I still have a few important islands to go through and a lot world exploration to do. How long is the main story anyway?
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7570
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 04:34 Post subject: |
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No, I wish it was. Would love it if they fleshed out the ship aspect of the game.
As for the main story it's pretty short.
None specific plot spoilers below, just how long exactly the main campaign is and some event locations.
| Spoiler: |
After you meet Eothas in Magran's Island, the world moves towards the end game for your final meeting at a certain island, and joy of joys you have to choose a faction to align yourself with (or go solo).
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Now I won't fault them for the length of the main quest because there is a lot of fun, not polished or deep, stuff to do outside of it.
But that really just drives home the feeling that this game would be a lot better if you weren't the Watcher and just some privateer captain doing stuff that aligns you with certain factions ala Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sure the Watcher gets to see the gods, but he has no agency and is just there to listen. That's not really interesting or fun in a game. What's the point of being able to commune with the gods directly, outside of lazy exposition, if any of the things you can answer don't matter?
I can appreciate what they've done were this a book, but this is a game and it just feels weird to have the main quest be one where you are just an observer, easily replaceable by anyone.
Eothas stealing part of your soul in the intro movie is just a way to make you feel like you matter but it doesn't.
| Spoiler: | Berath could just bless any other dude, the gods know exactly where Eothas is, and your soul isn't what you're using to track him. They want to know what Eothas is planning but they could just ask him and he would be quite forthcoming as evidence by the story.
You getting your 1/2 soul back is also quite underwhelming.
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So yeah, this game should have just been about you, the privateer captain, working his way up the piracy world to attain a certain level of influence in the Deadfire Archipelago while Eothas and the Watcher do their thing in the background. In fact, if you were to accompany the Watcher on certain quests where he interacts with Eothas or the other gods, that would achieve the same thing those interactions do.
Main story is the weakest part. I thought they'd have learned something from the Tyranny writers / story lead for what makes a fun story and how important player agency is to a game. Tyranny lit the fire I had for Obsidian which POE doused. Now PoE 2 has doused it again with the throwaway retcon story. Like seriously, it's like even the writers were so bored by the POE story that they forgot world defining stuff and contradicted that in the game.
But fanboy defenders will just pass it off as "oh but the guy who said that was an unreliable narrator!", which is just excusing Obsidian for their sloppy work.
I'd be fine with unreliable narrators if certain facts, like the POE twist wasn't already established in the first game. If they kept that reveal for the 2nd game while they build the world and got players properly invested, then there wouldn't be an issue.
Gustave the Steel
Last edited by AKofC on Tue, 15th May 2018 07:03; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 06:30 Post subject: |
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I like the "no plot spoilers. . ." and the first line is a plot spoiler.
As for the game itself, I am enjoying it especially after restarting after about 20 hours of gaming on Path of the Damned knowing the range of companions you get and what kind of party setup I want. It really is quite an experience and there are definitely some fights that I'm nervous about.
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend[s]
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 07:02 Post subject: |
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It's not a plot spoiler, it's just talking about how the story, just the gameplay location. Apologies about that though.
Gustave the Steel
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 07:02 Post subject: |
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| WHEATTHlNS wrote: | I like the "no plot spoilers. . ." and the first line is a plot spoiler.
As for the game itself, I am enjoying it especially after restarting after about 20 hours of gaming on Path of the Damned knowing the range of companions you get and what kind of party setup I want. It really is quite an experience and there are definitely some fights that I'm nervous about. |
When compared with the first game, PoTD is truly undertuned. Up to level 8 or so, it was kinda difficult while exploring all the main city; first go, I got the worm boss to ~70%, and the big undead (I think) boss ended even quicker. I had to return to them at later levels. After level 10, I was hitting up single skull and even a couple double skull events, usually getting by with a few knockouts, but 2 or 3 times I messed up and had full party death into a restarts. After level 15, I had only a couple single skull fights left, with little difficulty. The rest were not scaled up, so dont count for much.
IMO, on POTD, you should not be able to win a single skull fight w/o a couple reloads, let alone a double skull fight.
Party was:
1. Monk/Druid shifter with most points in monk and lightning attacks (casted a total of 10 druid spells the whole game (not counting shifting))
2. Paladin/Chanter (tank/buffer)
3. Priest of annoying southern accent (healer/buffer)
4. Cipher pistolero/CC (charm bot) - should have duel classed something
5. Wizard of holy shit I have a grimore that can cast a fireball that paralyzes everyone
| AKofC wrote: | | Spoiler: | No, I wish it was. Would love it if they fleshed out the ship aspect of the game.
As for the main story it's pretty short.
None plot spoilers below, just how long exactly the main campaign is.
| Spoiler: |
After you meet Eothas in Magran's Island, the world moves towards the end game for your final meeting at a certain island, and joy of joys you have to choose a faction to align yourself with (or go solo).
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Now I won't fault them for the length of the main quest because there is a lot of fun, not polished or deep, stuff to do outside of it.
But that really just drives home the feeling that this game would be a lot better if you weren't the Watcher and just some privateer captain doing stuff that aligns you with certain factions ala Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sure the Watcher gets to see the gods, but he has no agency and is just there to listen. That's not really interesting or fun in a game. What's the point of being able to commune with the gods directly, outside of lazy exposition, if any of the things you can answer don't matter?
I can appreciate what they've done were this a book, but this is a game and it just feels weird to have the main quest be one where you are just an observer, easily replaceable by anyone.
Eothas stealing part of your soul in the intro movie is just a way to make you feel like you matter but it doesn't.
| Spoiler: | Berath could just bless any other dude, the gods know exactly where Eothas is, and your soul isn't what you're using to track him. They want to know what Eothas is planning but they could just ask him and he would be quite forthcoming as evidence by the story.
You getting your 1/2 soul back is also quite underwhelming.
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So yeah, this game should have just been about you, the privateer captain, working his way up the piracy world to attain a certain level of influence in the Deadfire Archipelago while Eothas and the Watcher do their thing in the background. In fact, if you were to accompany the Watcher on certain quests where he interacts with Eothas or the other gods, that would achieve the same thing those interactions do.
Main story is the weakest part. I thought they'd have learned something from the Tyranny writers / story lead for what makes a fun story and how important player agency is to a game. Tyranny lit the fire I had for Obsidian which POE doused. Now PoE 2 has doused it again with the throwaway retcon story. Like seriously, it's like even the writers were so bored by the POE story that they forgot world defining stuff and contradicted that in the game.
But fanboy defenders will just pass it off as "oh but the guy who said that was an unreliable narrator!", which is just excusing Obsidian for their sloppy work.
I'd be fine with unreliable narrators if certain facts, like the POE twist wasn't already established in the first game. If they kept that reveal for the 2nd game while they build the world and got players properly invested, then there wouldn't be an issue. |
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Couldn't agree more, I replayed Tyranny 3 times in a row. I was really hoping to see more of that game blended into this one.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 07:37 Post subject: |
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Back to Divinity. I prefer turn based combat, yup.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 09:10 Post subject: |
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| FirewaterBurns wrote: | | The rest were not scaled up, so dont count for much. |
There's an option for POTD to always at least scale encounters up, so that you will never find something below your level.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 09:55 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | FirewaterBurns wrote: | | The rest were not scaled up, so dont count for much. |
There's an option for POTD to always at least scale encounters up, so that you will never find something below your level. |
I almost went that route, but, when I first started, I didn't know how easy it was going to be or the shear magnitude of fights that I would be overleveled for.
Also, being in a hard fight, that took a couple reloads, only to have some fine steal 10 copper weapons drop, seemed underwhelming.
Last edited by FirewaterBurns on Tue, 15th May 2018 10:46; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 10:44 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | FirewaterBurns wrote: | | The rest were not scaled up, so dont count for much. |
There's an option for POTD to always at least scale encounters up, so that you will never find something below your level. |
I hate scaling. I'll just make gearing entirely worthless. At best you keep up, at worst you fall behind when you don't immediately get new gear after leveling.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 11:07 Post subject: |
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| FirewaterBurns wrote: |
Couldn't agree more, I replayed Tyranny 3 times in a row. I was really hoping to see more of that game blended into this one. |
Well hopefully, they give us a Tyranny 2 with a POE budget. Here's to hoping.
Gustave the Steel
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 11:21 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | DCB wrote: | | FirewaterBurns wrote: | | The rest were not scaled up, so dont count for much. |
There's an option for POTD to always at least scale encounters up, so that you will never find something below your level. |
I hate scaling. I'll just make gearing entirely worthless. At best you keep up, at worst you fall behind when you don't immediately get new gear after leveling. |
Yep, scaling is the dumbest aspect of any RPG that uses it. You may as well completely get rid of leveling stats and just offer different skill loadouts.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 11:32 Post subject: |
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Sure, scaling is problematic, but how else do you deal with a level-based system where the player can travel to more or less any part of the world at any time? If you have pre-defined level areas, like an MMO, you risk trivialising the challenge across a large part of your world if the player over-levels, or else you enforce a fairly linear path of progression to keep a consistent and fair challenge (in which case why bother having an open world style design in the first place).
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 12:18 Post subject: |
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It's an rpg game. When i get stronger and better gear, i feel it's rewarding when i can go back and have a easier time at certain things. I do however also think it's problematic when i overlevel the main questline like i did in the first game. Was boringly easy after finishing the expansion packs.
But that's their stupid decission to add optional side chapters in the middle of the story, and not something after. Means they can't punish those who don't own the expansions, but those who play the expansions when they're supposed to, will have a too easy time of the rest of the original game.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 12:50 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 15:02 Post subject: |
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Probably depends primarily on what you thought of PoE1. If you hated the story in that, this one isn't exactly going to turn your opinion around.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:15 Post subject: |
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Everything in this apart from that which is shit, is an improvement over POE. Sadly the main story is shit.
You can't even call it a fetch quest. It's just you going to places and watching things happen and not being able to do shit.
It's like they built the game as a spin off / a game set in the world of Eora, then realized that they needed to add in the Watcher because backers expect it, so they did that last minute. The main quest is probably 5-10% of the content now that I think about it.
If anything the main quest feels like a prologue to the actual game. Something you would see in an opening cinematic, and the result of which is something you have to fix during the game.
It's why I think this would have been better if they just dumped the Watcher and just made one where you are a privateer captain making a name for himself in the Deadfire Archipelago.
The Watcher's job is done, and apart from a contrived thing that they do at the start of the game to serve as your motivation (the completion of which is very underwhelming and very so so) there really isn't anything tying the Watcher to this game.
They could have just gone and picked a random dude off the street, made him herald of Berath, and that would achieve the same thing.
| Spoiler: | Or if you just have Berath kill you during the character creation, or if the Watcher died for real in the intro cinematic, it would all lead to the same main quest ending. The Watcher is unneeded and there was zero point in him chasing after Eothas. They also retconned the Wheel. Either they forgot or no fucks were given. |
Gustave the Steel
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:29 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | It's like they built the game as a spin off / a game set in the world of Eora, then realized that they needed to add in the Watcher because backers expect it, so they did that last minute. The main quest is probably 5-10% of the content now that I think about it.
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So essentially it's like (original) Fallouts.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:32 Post subject: |
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Except Fallout 1 and 2 are good.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:37 Post subject: |
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Fallout 2 did it better because the Chosen One was a descendant of the Vault Dweller and that gave them more freedom with what you could do, albeit not really that different as far as abilities go.
I fear they will waste the setting if they just keep having the Watcher be the main character.
The whole Watcher being able to see souls thing didn't really add anything to this game, if anything that aspect is worse than the first game where it wasn't done very well either.
Gustave the Steel
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:38 Post subject: |
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| DCB wrote: | | Except Fallout 1 and 2 are good. |
I wouldn't call Pillars 2 a bad game, Fallout 1&2 are just much better. However, the comparison is quite unfair, because most RPGs pale against these two classics.
| AKofC wrote: | Fallout 2 did it better because the Chosen One was a descendant of the Vault Dweller and that gave them more freedom with what you could do, albeit not really that different as far as abilities go.
I fear they will waste the setting if they just keep having the Watcher be the main character.
The whole Watcher being able to see souls thing didn't really add anything to this game, if anything that aspect is worse than the first game where it wasn't done very well either. |
Being the Watcher of Caed Nua puts you on the map. People know who you are and doors open for you because of that. It's also the ability of being a Watcher that ties with the unique elements of the lore. You speak with the gods because of what you are, you see the past because of what you are and you can solve problems because of what you are. It serves both as a narrative and gameplay tool and the only problems I have with this is that the concept isn't exploited enough. However, there are a few side quests where being the Watcher makes things interesting. I just wish there was more content like that.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:50 Post subject: |
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The game didn't really make you feel like that though. Your Watcher powers didn't come into play enough, even in the main quest. They could have just gone with anyone for this game and it wouldn't have mattered.
Gustave the Steel
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 16:54 Post subject: |
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You are chasing Eothas for a reason, not only because Berath said so. What the game failed to do is to inject a sense of urgency. Deadfire is a pretty big place and you can easily get lost doing secondary quests instead of trying to stop what looks like an impending doom.
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| Posted: Tue, 15th May 2018 17:02 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | You are chasing Eothas for a reason, not only because Berath said so. What the game failed to do is to inject a sense of urgency. Deadfire is a pretty big place and you can easily get lost doing secondary quests instead of trying to stop what looks like an impending doom. |
And THAT is the problem with completely open games. Nothing really matters. Not that i want a timer, but i prefer semi open games where everything (side quests etc) is contained within a scenario that matters and not just roaming around for 20 hours and ignoring main quest when shit is supposed to happen.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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However, the devs went the cheap way: 
