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 Posted: Wed, 21st Nov 2018 17:15 Post subject: |
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Honestly, that's a weird bug. This is Vordakai's tomb, and the room is a little maze (like actual maze). My chars never had problems with navigating it.
| sin317 wrote: |
typical jew comment
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Nov 2018 19:11 Post subject: |
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ribipa
Banned
Posts: 364
Location: hdfgdhfghgdfhdghhgd
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Nov 2018 22:07 Post subject: |
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I also enjoy this game without to become addicted.
I prefer things to be that way.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Nov 2018 22:29 Post subject: |
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Even when they patch it up, they need to include an option to disable those hidden timers. The one at the very beginning doesn't bother me (it's very generous, just like it was in Tyranny), but apparently there are ones with regards to kingdom management where if you don't do them in time you insta-fail, and you don't know it's too late until it's too late.
Bit of a stupid gimmick if you ask me. Hate being rushed - and I refuse to use CheatEngine or any other bullshit way to bypass it. Needs to be an official option.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Wed, 21st Nov 2018 23:53 Post subject: |
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I think it's a solid enough game, but I also think it doesn't deserve a note above 7/10. It has too many too serious problems.
- mediocre to bad writing that really fails to inspire any kind of emotion. Dialogues and companions are the worst part - as generic as they come - but story isn't much better either;
- serious lack of depth in terms of content (not mechanics). There are very few locations you can actually sink your teeth into, and most side quests are bare-bones at best;
- idiotic ideas, like making the characters move slowly during rain, or not including any option to move directly from the throne room to the map - which forces you to go through several long-ass load screens when you want to manage your kingdom and them go back to exploring. Another great one is hiding some of the most powerful (or at least interesting) items in the game behind hidden perception checks - these are just a few examples off the top of my head;
- bad / boring encounter design, with some weird, forced difficulty spikes, probably to make things more interesting. My favourite part was including a monster you can only kill with a specific spell, without giving the player any kind of info about what that spell was... in the middle of a main story dungeon, and one that makes you fail 50% of spells you cast. It's like a scenario ran by a frustrated GM who wants to get back at his players;
- really badly paced story, partly due to the open-ended nature of the game - I had instances where I had to wait 2 months before something started happening, with all locations available at the time explored;
- the integration of the adventuring aspect with kingdom management is quite illusory - very little of what happens on that management map actually affects the world around you;
- bugs, bugs, bugs galore. I encountered not one, but two gamebreaking ones, that would've ended my playthrough if I didn't resort to save editing. Something like that never happened to me before. I know it's a small studio, but I see no reason to forgive faults I'd find unforgivable in any other case.
I really enjoyed the game for the first 20 or 30 hours. It has perfectly paced progression, it uses a solid (if a bit dated) RPG system and has some of the best dungeons I've seen in a game like that. Also, there are at least some good things to be said about the storytelling - I liked the way companion stories were presented, even if they weren't great. They unfolded organically, and I never felt as if they're there just so I can get access to a single side quest. Great visuals too - I had some reservations about the graphic style, but it grew on me, and some stuff - like spell effects, for example - is just breathtaking.
But the more I played, the bigger the issues became, and the more I noticed how superficial everything really is. For example, my ideal model for exploration in games like this is still Baldur's Gate 2 - a game that had depth to almost any area you could find, and often went so far with it, you could almost see the locations as actual places. Kingmaker has nothing of the sort. Most places you visit are simple areas made from assets reused ad nauseam and you'll be lucky if you find anything but an artifact part (that may very well turn useless later anyway, because you fail a perception check at the wrong time). And they're so fricking boring, usually. There are some exceptions (like Swamp Witch's Hut), but most of the game screams "shallow" and "amateurish". Even many of the main story locations aren't very good.
I'm happy Owlcat were successful with this, because I do think there's some talent in the studio, they definitely are true fans of the genre, and I want to see more games from them. But if I had to look at Kingmaker without rose-tinted glasses, to rate what I see now, and not what I think the developer is capable of, given time - the final image wouldn't be so great, to be perfectly honest.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 00:56 Post subject: |
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I agree with much of the stuff you said. I just don't think the writing is bad, it's not very good either. I think they went overboard with the size of the game instead of focusing on the substance. But Pathfinder has this sense of adventure that can easily suck you in despite all the problems, we don't see this in many RPGs these days.
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 10:00 Post subject: |
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you guys know there a few mod already in nexus?
they fix some of the more annoying stuff
PS: Posting with this account since my original one seems to have vanished
Last edited by Mercos on Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 12:53; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 12:21 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | | Bit of a stupid gimmick if you ask me. Hate being rushed - and I refuse to use CheatEngine or any other bullshit way to bypass it. Needs to be an official option. |
It's not about rushing you really, you're not supposed to complete every event you get. The same applies with skill checks. They want you to make some choices. I don't like it either since I rarely replay games, but I understand the concept.
@Aquma: what's the use of skill checks if it doesn't make some items useless or cuts you off from some small content? Shouldn't there be consequences to not leveling certain skills?
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 12:51 Post subject: |
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Skill checks are roll based, so it's all about luck.
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 15:54 Post subject: |
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What do you mean? That would make investing points in skills completely useless.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 16:03 Post subject: |
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It doesn't make it completely useless, you are increasing your chances. You didn't have any skill check with a different result after reloading a save?
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 16:07 Post subject: |
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I thought you meant it's totally random. Dice rolls are the core of the game, failing checks is part of it. I don't see the problem with that, my opinion obviously. I haven't cared about clearing everything in an RPG since years now, so that might be why I'm not bothered with it.
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 16:37 Post subject: |
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I don't have any problems with failing skill checks. I do have a problem with dividing an item into 15 parts and hiding them in completely random places, some of which you might not even know you passed, because no clues whatsoever are given as to their whereabouts, and some hidden in locations you can only visit once. It's especially irritating if said item is a lore-rich piece of equipment, with some of the more interesting mechanics in the game (like curses, summoning demons if you take it off without a certain spell). As far as I'm concerned, something like this should be part of a quest line, not a glorified collectible.
I'm fine with failing something, because I didn't invest in the right skills, but I don't like to be penalized because I happened to roll a 1 (which means an automatic failure, no matter what you invested in) on a check I didn't even know was happening. It's stupid game design, that punishes the player for something that's compeltely out of his control.
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 16:45 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Immunity wrote: | | Bit of a stupid gimmick if you ask me. Hate being rushed - and I refuse to use CheatEngine or any other bullshit way to bypass it. Needs to be an official option. |
It's not about rushing you really, you're not supposed to complete every event you get. The same applies with skill checks. They want you to make some choices. I don't like it either since I rarely replay games, but I understand the concept.
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From my understanding the game didn't (and maybe still doesn't?) make clear which of these kingdom events are time and failure critical though?
When I play RPG's I like to finish up most (usually all) the areas in a given Chapter/Act before moving on. Doesn't seem like I'll be able to do that here because that one quest that I end up putting on the back burner could throw out a "Game Over" screen at any moment. I'd be OK with that IF they were clearly labeled and given a visible timer so I know how many days I have left before I'm screwed. I don't think that's a lot to ask for (it's the bare minimum really) in order not to feel cheated by the invisible mechanics.
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 17:29 Post subject: |
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@Immunity: do you have any examples of these quests?
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 17:57 Post subject: |
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| Immunity wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | Immunity wrote: | | Bit of a stupid gimmick if you ask me. Hate being rushed - and I refuse to use CheatEngine or any other bullshit way to bypass it. Needs to be an official option. |
It's not about rushing you really, you're not supposed to complete every event you get. The same applies with skill checks. They want you to make some choices. I don't like it either since I rarely replay games, but I understand the concept.
|
From my understanding the game didn't (and maybe still doesn't?) make clear which of these kingdom events are time and failure critical though?
When I play RPG's I like to finish up most (usually all) the areas in a given Chapter/Act before moving on. Doesn't seem like I'll be able to do that here because that one quest that I end up putting on the back burner could throw out a "Game Over" screen at any moment. I'd be OK with that IF they were clearly labeled and given a visible timer so I know how many days I have left before I'm screwed. I don't think that's a lot to ask for (it's the bare minimum really) in order not to feel cheated by the invisible mechanics. |
The quests are divided up in the quest log. From what I found, only a few of the main quests can destroy your kingdom if you wait too long. You should be able to tell which ones are main quests and which are companion or side quests by how they are listed in the log. Additionally, there are some side quest, or a few steps (clues) in the main quest that you can fail, if you wait too long, and it wont end your game.
The Kingdom events that destroy your kingdom, usually do so by eating your kingdom stats to a unspecified threshold. How close to failing is denoted by the status of your kingdom. If you are at "crumbling" and another one of those events reduces a stat, you may lose.
Mild Spoiler: chapter 2 example:
 Spoiler: |
In the Troll invasion quests, the longer you wait to finish the main quest line, the faster troll invasion events will spawn. Eventually, you wont be able to do enough of them, and they will eat all your stability. |
I did have a kingdom event up and end my game out of the blue, in the late game, but it was due to me modifying the game. I had clicked the wrong box in cheat engine, and it caused a new (get to the throne room) event to instantly complete as I was traveling.
Edit: added additional detail, format, & fixed English
Last edited by FirewaterBurns on Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 18:10; edited 6 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 18:01 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | @Immunity: do you have any examples of these quests? |
Just going off of the numerous Steam forum posts in the early days of release. Many were bitching that if you neglect to visit your Kingdom often you'd get a Game Over.
Going off memory...
| Spoiler: | there was something with regards to a troll attack - the guy didn't deal with it because he wanted to get other stuff done first and thought if he did it it would advance the chapter/act - trolls overran his kingdom and his entire playthrough was kaput. |
I have no idea if this kinda stuff with the invisible critical timers has been remedied or not, as I've been waiting to play it till it's nice and patched up so I can have the ideal experience instead of having to restart my playthrough due to bugs/oversights.
Edit -
@FirewaterBurns
Ah, that answers my question more or less. Thanks!
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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| Posted: Thu, 22nd Nov 2018 19:10 Post subject: |
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Well you get several warnings and small attacks before it gets out of hand and the limit seems to be very generous. The barony is under attack so there is some urgency to things yes.
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Nov 2018 11:08 Post subject: |
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Another update, give them their due they are working on taking it out of EA.... So tempted to buy.
Pathfinder.Kingmaker.Update.v1.1.1c-CODEX
| Spoiler: |
Update v1.1.1c:
Quests
The party could get stuck at the "Technic League Hideout" area if they entered the location for the first time whilst having failed the "Cruel Justice" quest. Resolution: fixed (affected saves are also corrected).
In some cases, "The Seed of Sorrow" quest could get stuck after leaving the "Old Prison" area. Resolution: fixed. Players need to start saves prior to the Throne Room.
Jaethal couldn't be killed if players chose to attack her in the final dialogue during the "Reveal My Destiny" quest. Resolution: fixed.
Failing the "Burning Bridges" quest could lead to issues with other events in the Throne room in some cases. Resolution: fixed.
The "Talk to Shyka" objective couldn't be completed correctly in "The First Crown" quest at the "Castle of Knives" area if players didn't talk to Salim Ghadafar before. Resolution: the "Talk to Shyka" objective is not available until players talk to Salim Ghadafar.
The "Troll Trouble" quest could not be completed correctly if Hargulka and Tartuk were killed in the same moment. Resolution: fixed.
Ekun's animal companion could lose its name - received in the "Okbo" quest - and change size during the "Conduct the ritual" objective completion (Ekundayo's "Bury the Past" quest). Resolution: fixed (fix is available for saves that are not affected yet).
Ekundayo's "Bury the Past" quest was not considered failed if players refused to take part in the ritual. Resolution: fixed.
All companions could disappear if players loaded a save during the Ekundayo's "A Feast of Feasts" quest at the "Hunting Grounds" area. Resolution: fixed.
Tristian's the "Saving Grace" quest was available even if the "Hour of Rage" quest was completed prior to the "Betrayer's Flight" quest. Resolution: fixed. If players already get the "Saving Grace" quest, they will keep it.
The ''Read Kesten's note'' quest would not complete upon reading the corresponding note. Resolution: fixed.
The "A Bard's Calling" quest got stuck uncompleted after Annamede Belavarah's leaving the "Rushlight Fields" area if players didn't talk to her. Resolution: the quest is marked as failed in this case.
Areas
In rare cases, the Pitax Aftermath could finish incorrectly. Resolution: fixed. For players who have already encountered the problem, the event will be re-started in the Throne Room.
Players could not select to leap over the fence at Stag Lord's Fortress repeatedly the same way. Resolution: fixed.
No exit from the "Temple of the Elk" area. Resolution: the area exit marker is moved to a more convenient location.
Companions who were not in the roster could appear at the "Oleg's Trading Post" area after the night visit of Guardian of the Bloom. Resolution: fixed.
Armag remained hostile even if players made peace with him. Resolution: fixed.
Jamandi Aldori and Natala Surtova didn't help players in the last chapter even if they promised to. Resolution: fixed.
Tartuk didn't join the party in the last chapter if all the correspondent requirements were met. Resolution: fixed.
Nyrissa could be hostile to players during the final battle in some cases. Resolution: fixed.
The Lantern King could die because of the Area Effect spells in the final dialogue resulting in an incorrect dialogue exit and proper epilogues missing. Resolution: fixed.
Players couldn't move from the first to the second levels of the "Vordakai's Tomb" area if they got back from the second to the first levels. Resolution: fixed.
Ekun's dialogue didn't work correctly after the "Test of Loyalty" event if one of the options was chosen. Resolution: fixed.
Some players complained that there could be temporary party control issues during the second visit of the "Old Sycamore Caves" area after the Tartuk's quest completion. Resolution: fixed.
One of the "fog barriers" at the "House At The Edge Of Time" area didn't work correctly. Resolution: fixed.
The peasants at the capital came to their senses and don't accuse the baron/ess of hiding the disease when the baron/ess decided to tell them the truth during the Noble Safari event.
The initial enemy positions were too close to the "fog barrier" in some places at the "House At The Edge Of Time" area, resulting in combat issues. Resolution: fixed.
There were no options to talk to Tsanna at the "Shrine of Lamashtu" area in the last chapter. Resolution: fixed.
Allowing Hargulka or Tartuk to keep their kingdom through the Chaotic dialogue option immediately removed the player from the dungeon, missing on possible treasure or resolving the Harrim's companion quest. Resolution: after striking an alliance with Hargulka or Tartuk, they now allow players to finish exploring the dungeon until they leave it on their own.
Kingdom
Using an ultra-wide monitor resulted in cropped UI in kingdom management. Resolution: fixed.
User Interfaces
Companion's portraits could become transparent after their death. Resolution: fixed.
Filters didn't work at loot boxes. Resolution: fixed.
Double click didn't function properly sometimes. Resolution: double click functionality was improved. A special setting (Settings > Controls) was added to control the speed of double click.
An attempt to level up a skill rank caused the modal dialogue to appear with no resulting actions while in the auto-levelup mode. Resolution: fixed.
Classes & Mechanics
Players with specific Operation System settings who played at the "Story mode" and "Normal" levels of difficulty could experience an automatic 10-time increase in monster damage after the release of 1.1. Resolution: fixed.
Medusa's Petrifying Gaze ability worked incorrectly out of combat. Resolution: fixed.
Buff from Cleric's Strength Domain's ability Strength Surge did not show near the portrait. Resolution: fixed.
Extra Performance and Lingering Performance had shown "Deadly Performance" in prerequisites while actually requiring Bardic Performance. Resolution: These feats properly show Bardic Performance as the prerequisite now.
Area effect buffs could get stuck for not active companions. Resolution: fixed.
Characters other than the player character could not use diamond dust to cast spells. Resolution: fixed.
Wild Hunt Scouts no longer drop their scimitars.
Reflex saving throw did not affect the divine damage part of the Flame Strike. Resolution: fixed.
Animal companions would remain petrified even after resting. Resolution: fixed.
Amiri had no visible UI debuff mark while Fatigued. Resolution: fixed.
Dragonkind II had no cooldown for the breath weapon ability. fixed.
Miscellaneous
Hovering over the Cursed Bombs ability when playing with the French localization could freeze the game. Resolution: fixed.
Moving between peaceful areas inside your capital no longer triggers autosaves.
Fixed typo in Renshala's dialogue during the dialogue with Eimar in Pitax.
Update v1.1a:
?ut-scene in Pitax could freeze under certain conditions. Resolution: fixed.
Cut-scene with Tristian was triggering every time after players tried to get out of the Capital. Resolution: fixed.
Triggering Rest could make the game freeze in some cases. Resolution: some improvements were applied to prevent this issue.
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Nov 2018 12:27 Post subject: |
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And it gets better 
People say writing is uninspired. I mean yeah, not going to argue that much, but so was Baldur's Gate's 1 and it was still a wholly enjoyable game. And companions were basicaly pack mules/damage soaks. It was BG2 that changed that.
And I'd say that the Main Bad in Pathfinder is more Irenicus than Sarevok.
| sin317 wrote: |
typical jew comment
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Nov 2018 12:29 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: |
Is there any use in taking Jubilost and the black guy to the dwarven ruins after clearing it? I won't use them, but I don't want to miss their stories. |
To advance their questline. Also, Ekundayo is an amazing damage dealer which also increases the amount you can carry by a lot.
| Bendi wrote: |
People say writing is uninspired. I mean yeah, not going to argue that much, but so was Baldur's Gate's 1 and it was still a wholly enjoyable game. And companions were basicaly pack mules/damage soaks. It was BG2 that changed that.
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Isn't this a poor excuse? There was never a question about how enjoyable the game is or not. Enjoyment is quite subjective to begin with.
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ribipa
Banned
Posts: 364
Location: hdfgdhfghgdfhdghhgd
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Nov 2018 19:40 Post subject: |
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| Reg67 wrote: | | Another update, give them their due they are working on taking it out of EA.... So tempted to buy. [...] |
Some comments on Steam say that they fix one thing and break smth else... I will wait and watch.
harballaz wrote:
Hey dont be so hard the little console eunuchs, they need time to aim their lil vibratin thumbstick.
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| Posted: Fri, 23rd Nov 2018 21:51 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | do they have long questlines? I was a bit disappointed when Harrim's quest ended in the fortress. Or was that just a first stage?
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All companions have long quest lines, with meaningful choices and consequences. They get several different ending slides depending on how you helped them (or didn't help them at all).
You know you're done when their character page gets an ending portrait (The first and last descriptions are not just text, they have sketches)
All of them can begin to act differently based on how their quests went. Octavia and Regongar for example can be a bit more laid back, or go towards their chaotic, destructive sides, depending od a certain choice you make during their shared quest.
@Rifleman
That's true to a point, for example I saw fixes for a certain quest both in a few hotfixes and in the 1.1 patch. It was said here their code is a mess, so that's probably the reason they can't identify problems easily.
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proekaan
VIP Member
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Location: Finland
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| Page 13 of 19 |
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I'm hoping the companions will be worked out better later, though I doubt it. Companions are used as info terminals at this point. The story doesn't capture me either, but I am hoping shit will hit the fan in chapter 3.
