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 Posted: Sat, 12th Jan 2019 18:34 Post subject: |
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| JBeckman wrote: | | publishers like Ubisoft going for different stores that's going to be a bit of a wake-up call to Valve to get their stuff in orde |
Considering they are being paid to leave, even if Valve started "listening to the developers more", nothing beats Epic's $$$ in the short term. (Although it's not a direct payment as I understand, but some sort of guarantee "your game will sell x, and if it doesn't we will compensate you".
But Epic won't be paying forever, they are only doing it now to build some momentum, and later Ubisoft will either be back on Steam, or use their own store only.
Very very very important thing to not forget: despite whatever grievances with Steam these developers have, none of them would abandon what surely is their #1 source of income on PC, if they weren't being PAID to leave.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jan 2019 19:24 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jan 2019 19:26 Post subject: |
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Jan 2019 21:14 Post subject: |
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Ofcourse, otherwise the wrath of the EU would follow. Shows how much amateurism is going on with that store. 
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 07:50 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | So Epic says they don't want to pay high fees to payment processors as it's too expensive and then people are angry at Epic? LOLWUT I don't even
Anyway, 30% cut is way too much for payment processors, you can support almost all payment methods for <5%. Payment processors (CC companies for example) that actually charge 25% (!) should be taken out and shot. |
It's because for some people living in certain countries, that's the only available way to pay for the game.
Over here, most people don't have credit cards. To make online purchases they go through some method where they load credits through a service provided by their phone carrier and use that to make online purchases.
I'm not too familiar with the details though as I'm not much of a phone person and don't know most of the things that has to do with phone carrier services. My phone is strictly for calls and texts because even net usage, even on a plan, I have to through some weird ass method of taking out a chunk of the credits my plan has allotted for the month and using that to enable a subscription that lets me use a certain number of gb a day. Like I have to literally pay use up 2 dollars for a gigabyte of 4g access, otherwise speed is limited to 3g.
While I can afford it, it's fucked up and so I don't bother. Others aren't as fortunate so to a lot of the people here who don't know any better, the internet is Facebook because that's free. Then they spend like a dollar for Youtube access for a day.
Net neutrality? What's that.
Gustave the Steel
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 11:19 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | JBeckman wrote: | | publishers like Ubisoft going for different stores that's going to be a bit of a wake-up call to Valve to get their stuff in orde |
Considering they are being paid to leave, even if Valve started "listening to the developers more", nothing beats Epic's $$$ in the short term. (Although it's not a direct payment as I understand, but some sort of guarantee "your game will sell x, and if it doesn't we will compensate you".
But Epic won't be paying forever, they are only doing it now to build some momentum, and later Ubisoft will either be back on Steam, or use their own store only.
Very very very important thing to not forget: despite whatever grievances with Steam these developers have, none of them would abandon what surely is their #1 source of income on PC, if they weren't being PAID to leave. |
Hmm that's true, hell even if Ubisoft wanted to move to a different store front for the oh what is it 8% additional revenue split (Steam doing 20/80 for big selling publishers, Epic doing 88/12 all around.) going from the several million possible sales Steam has compared to a more unknown sales estimate with Epic's launcher I don't think the investors would be very keen on that so a immediate payment probably helps but yeah they wouldn't pay for every title so it's probably a few soon to be released games and if sales don't pick up they will probably be back on Steam sooner or later, timed exclusivity could also be a thing or ultimately using Epic, Steam and UPlay for a broader coverage once all the features are in place between Uplay/Orbit and Epic's launcher so they can communicate as well and this current timed publishing agreement is no more in around a year or so I assume is how they would set it up.
(Some risk but a nice up front payout and gamers forget and forgive easily so once it's on Steam slap a 10 - 20% sales discount maybe and it'll be business as usual.)
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 12:33 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: | | Areius wrote: | So Epic says they don't want to pay high fees to payment processors as it's too expensive and then people are angry at Epic? LOLWUT I don't even
Anyway, 30% cut is way too much for payment processors, you can support almost all payment methods for <5%. Payment processors (CC companies for example) that actually charge 25% (!) should be taken out and shot. |
 |
So... you think it's normal for a payment processor to charge 25% fees on payments? Please send me your details then, I'd like to sell you some cash for 25% more than it's worth  |
"payment processor" |
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 15:16 Post subject: |
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I'm not sure I should even reply to that, but will try anyway. Valve (and Epic for that matter) use many payment processors such as PayPal, Skrill, VISA, etc. These charge an X amount per transaction. Pretty much all of these processors charge <5% of transaction value (mostly 1-3%). Especially if you have a ton of sales, you can get much better deals. This is also why Valve has a lot of different of payment options. Adding payment processors that charge 25% per transaction is way too much (if you feel that's justified then please buy my money at 25% extra costs ) and I fully agree with Epic that they will not add these to cover their costs. The 12% cut of epic, I guess about 5% of that will go to payment processors + own finance costs, the rest is for Epic themselves to cover their own costs (staff, hosting, etc), which is enough as there's many other 'store builders' that charge even less. And it's not like they go out of business or anything.
Same applies to Valve's (and others), a 30% cut is just too much no matter how you slice it. Even if you feel the 30% is justified, at least with other stores that charge that amount there's support, workable documentation, clear rules and guidelines, a person to talk to, decent way to upload your content, a backend that works, etc.
PC: Yes. Console: No.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 15:45 Post subject: |
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Oh and Steam doesn't.
What, you base that one a few disgruntled derpelopers that didn't know how to market their own games, or the ones that complained about review bombing their garbage "software" because it was full of bugs, and nobody at Valve replied?
Everything you mentioned exists with Steam.
Steam gives much more value than Microsoft and Sony do for their 30%. For users and developers.
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 16:41 Post subject: |
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+Bethesda launcher deleting Fallout 76 beta files (50GB) when you pressed "Play" at release time.
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Sin317
Banned
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Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 17:03 Post subject: |
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In normal competition, businesses try to out-market the others, by giving advantages to the consumer.
But in this case, as with almost all "online distribution platforms", it's not "us" who are their consumers, but the studios.
They don't even try to make the deal more interesting for "us" lowly peasants but instead try to make it more interesting for the developers.
It's really fucked up if you ask me.
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 18:45 Post subject: |
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 What are you talking about, Epic already confirmed consumers will start seeing "way better games" being made now that they saved PC gaming! 
| consolitis wrote: | So according to Tim Sweeny he just saved PC gaming, because we are going to see, I quote, "way better games" than what we are used to, just because some indie developers are going to see 18% more revenue in their bank accounts
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/a9lntx/ubisoft_needs_to_stop_with_this_always_online/ecltfdj/
| Quote: | | For users, I get that it’s yet another launcher and if you have Steam installed you’d prefer to just use it. But if you want way better games to be built in the future, then please recognize what good this store can do. |
PC gaming is saved thanks Epic! 
Epic is the new Microsoft. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 19:02 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | In normal competition, businesses try to out-market the others, by giving advantages to the consumer.
But in this case, as with almost all "online distribution platforms", it's not "us" who are their consumers, but the studios.
They don't even try to make the deal more interesting for "us" lowly peasants but instead try to make it more interesting for the developers.
It's really fucked up if you ask me. |
But you need to have actual games on it first, which you can only get by cutting the devs better deals. What's the point in making it cheaper for the end consumers when you don't have anything to sell?
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 19:40 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | In normal competition, businesses try to out-market the others, by giving advantages to the consumer.
But in this case, as with almost all "online distribution platforms", it's not "us" who are their consumers, but the studios.
They don't even try to make the deal more interesting for "us" lowly peasants but instead try to make it more interesting for the developers.
It's really fucked up if you ask me. |
But you need to have actual games on it first, which you can only get by cutting the devs better deals. What's the point in making it cheaper for the end consumers when you don't have anything to sell? |
they are giving better cuts but that doesnt help them either
Their shelves are empty
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 20:41 Post subject: |
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The "they need teh gaemz" argument is stupid. Virtually all their games right now are from deals they have paid to publishers. In theory, they could have provided all features that Steam has, while dropping the asking percentage, and they would have still had the same games because they would have paid the publishers too. This is clearly intended as an anticonsumer store (just read Sweeny's comments in the Reddit thread).
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prudislav
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Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 21:18 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Final info dump from ep. 234 of the podcast with Galyonkin
I started writing in a more abbreviated way eventually. Hopefully it's still understandable. Inaccuracy/misinterpretation is possible -- apologies in advance if so. Where the answer was vague, I usually tried to indicate it as such.
- Developer created promo codes for discounts/bonuses will eventually be possible.
- Their in-app purchase policy is not yet fully finalized. Epic will most likely also take a cut. Galyonkin was not able to give a final answer on that.
- Discovery will mainly take place outside of the store. Galyonkin draws parallels to a book store or theater, where you usually know what you're going to buy/attend before going there rather than look through what's available. Primarily new/featured releases are shown on the storefront.
- There will be a news feed where you can follow games, developers, influencers. This sounds like it will be their second big pillar for discovery.
- He said that _currently_ you won't be able to append your own launcher that will be launched from the EGS app, but this may change in the future. Given how Ubisoft handles its games on Steam and that The Division 2 is launching on EGS, I assume they've already made a change on this stance since this podcast's release.
- It will be possible to generate keys like on Steam. They will not charge the 12% for those keys. Doesn't recommend it since other marketplaces typically charge a higher cut.
- Games sold also on other storefronts probably will not be allowed to have a lower base price there. Differing sales of course are fine.
- On exclusives. They pay for timed exclusives on PC. Mainly to finish financing ports or to assuage fears of the game not doing well on this new platform. Works like a minimal guarantee of sales and get money in advance.
- It's not planned that the 12% cut will get higher. It might get lower, however, if they will be able to cut a better deal over time with payment processing companies -- but this won't happen any time soon.
- Achievements will be there by the end of 2019. Reviews will also come eventually. No forums, no guides, no paid mods. Developer/publisher pages will also be implemented.
- It will eventually be possible to launch non-Epic games through the launcher. You can pull in friends lists from Steam Galyonkin said. Importing games directly from other platforms, like GOG does, will not be done. He doesn't see the advantage of it.
- Social features will be introduced, but it'll be somewhat different from Steam's. Couldn't give details yet.
- Customer reviews are opt-in. Will have mechanisms to prevent review bombs. Expects that without review bombing, all developers will want to put reviews on their page. I don't think that's the case, since many of dev's complaints about reviews that I've read are about people not understanding games, using reviews as a faster support ticket, inappropriate content, and so forth. Review bombs are an issue, but not for the vast majority of games. These other issues are more commonplace.
- Download speed limits will be possible.
- The influencer/creator program will be their approach to Steam's curators.
- Responding to complaints about EGS being focused on developers to the detriment of consumers (e.g. no forums, achievements, other consumer-facing features): initial focus was indeed on developers, the consumer focused featured are being worked on, they will have free games every two weeks for the entirety of 2019 (28 games total). Features for consumers will be introduced gradually. Concedes that even stuff on the backend for developers isn't fully finalized yet either.
- Wants to have more social media integration. Currently already possible to connect Facebook, Vk, Steam, Twitch, PS, Switch, Xbox, and Google accounts.
- Suggested regional prices are indicated for developers. Limited support currently. Shown as a %age discount rather than the adjusted number in the local currency, so developers have a better gauge on how much cheaper their game is sold for in lower income regions.
- It will be possible to follow unreleased games.
- "Cards" not planned. Considers it to have an undesirable effect on purchasing decisions, e.g. buying games you don't really want for the cards. Other collectibles, skins, or stuff like that will be possible. Not necessarily tradeable.
- They're happy with the look of the store as it is now with its big tiles. Eventually things like categories will be introduced but in broad strokes this is how it'll look.
- News feed will contain friends' activities. Not yet sure what activities exactly will shown there.
- How they got Journey. They cut a deal with Sony. Paid for it by the sound of it. RIP dreams of a Steam version, I guess. Fair game since it seems to have been organized/funded by Epic though.
- User profiles are planned for the beginning of "next year" he says, but I'm unsure whether he meant early 2019 or 2020.
- Discusses different ways to address reviews and review bombing. A pop-up asking a player to review a game after closing it -- from what I understood the idea is that only a certain subset of players will then get to review it, it isn't something everyone can do at any time. Another option he mentioned was only allowing/showing reviews of people who have recently played the game. Instead of like/dislike system a numeral system, which is monitored and an algorithm removes the extremes -- this is a reference to a similar system implemented on some other website/service that I'm not familiar with. They're still figuring out how to best approach it. Galyonkin personally likes the post game pop-up idea.
- To be clear: those are two different options they've thought of. Either or. In any case, it's still all a work in progress. Galyonkin was just airing different approaches they've considered. If you read on, he says that devs will have no moderation powers over reviews.
- Developers will not be able to directly moderate reviews. They can flag them for review by Epic.
- No plans for blockchain tech!
- Currently, all regions get the same build of the game. So if you purchase a game in Russia, for example, it won't be that it only has Russian language in-game (as is apparently the case for some Ubisoft games). If this is requested by developers, it can be changed. (This response came up a lot by the way -- basically, if devs want a feature, it seems Epic is willing to do their best to implement it for them by launch)
- No plans to get into the hardware business.
- (In response to a question about this) Galyonkin is considering login using Steam account. Says why not. Will discuss it internally.
- About price errors: if a user buys a game on the cheap through a price error and it's Epic's fault, they won't revoke the purchase. If it's a devs fault, it's up to them.
Aaaaand that's it. I don't think I'll do the same for the other podcast episodes. This took quite some time :')
PS: Podcast was recorded on the 9th of December. |
https://www.resetera.com/threads/epic-games-store-discussion.86783/page-14#post-16826016
Lot of stuff WIP , lots of stuff they have no clue how will look and bunch of really weird ideas = > sounds like they rush it like hell to bank on the algorytm bu |
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 22:03 Post subject: |
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By 2069 the store will kick ass
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 22:13 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How they got Journey. They cut a deal with Sony. Paid for it by the sound of it. RIP dreams of a Steam version, I guess. Fair game since it seems to have been organized/funded by Epic though. |
Could be troublesome in the future.
Dakrest Timeline:
Epic Store grows and gets really competitive
and devs decide that they need to get paid off to port their games to pc
Edit:
Someone should tell epic that a store is supposed to make money not spend it midnlessly
Last edited by lametta on Sun, 13th Jan 2019 23:35; edited 1 time in total
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51395
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 22:19 Post subject: |
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Anyone pulled the "B-b-but steam has had 15 years to implement all those functionalities!1 " excuse yet? 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
Last edited by tonizito on Sun, 13th Jan 2019 22:37; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sun, 13th Jan 2019 22:29 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | | Quote: | Final info dump from ep. 234 of the podcast with Galyonkin
I started writing in a more abbreviated way eventually. Hopefully it's still understandable. Inaccuracy/misinterpretation is possible -- apologies in advance if so. Where the answer was vague, I usually tried to indicate it as such.
- Developer created promo codes for discounts/bonuses will eventually be possible.
- Their in-app purchase policy is not yet fully finalized. Epic will most likely also take a cut. Galyonkin was not able to give a final answer on that.
- Discovery will mainly take place outside of the store. Galyonkin draws parallels to a book store or theater, where you usually know what you're going to buy/attend before going there rather than look through what's available. Primarily new/featured releases are shown on the storefront.
- There will be a news feed where you can follow games, developers, influencers. This sounds like it will be their second big pillar for discovery.
- He said that _currently_ you won't be able to append your own launcher that will be launched from the EGS app, but this may change in the future. Given how Ubisoft handles its games on Steam and that The Division 2 is launching on EGS, I assume they've already made a change on this stance since this podcast's release.
- It will be possible to generate keys like on Steam. They will not charge the 12% for those keys. Doesn't recommend it since other marketplaces typically charge a higher cut.
- Games sold also on other storefronts probably will not be allowed to have a lower base price there. Differing sales of course are fine.
- On exclusives. They pay for timed exclusives on PC. Mainly to finish financing ports or to assuage fears of the game not doing well on this new platform. Works like a minimal guarantee of sales and get money in advance.
- It's not planned that the 12% cut will get higher. It might get lower, however, if they will be able to cut a better deal over time with payment processing companies -- but this won't happen any time soon.
- Achievements will be there by the end of 2019. Reviews will also come eventually. No forums, no guides, no paid mods. Developer/publisher pages will also be implemented.
- It will eventually be possible to launch non-Epic games through the launcher. You can pull in friends lists from Steam Galyonkin said. Importing games directly from other platforms, like GOG does, will not be done. He doesn't see the advantage of it.
- Social features will be introduced, but it'll be somewhat different from Steam's. Couldn't give details yet.
- Customer reviews are opt-in. Will have mechanisms to prevent review bombs. Expects that without review bombing, all developers will want to put reviews on their page. I don't think that's the case, since many of dev's complaints about reviews that I've read are about people not understanding games, using reviews as a faster support ticket, inappropriate content, and so forth. Review bombs are an issue, but not for the vast majority of games. These other issues are more commonplace.
- Download speed limits will be possible.
- The influencer/creator program will be their approach to Steam's curators.
- Responding to complaints about EGS being focused on developers to the detriment of consumers (e.g. no forums, achievements, other consumer-facing features): initial focus was indeed on developers, the consumer focused featured are being worked on, they will have free games every two weeks for the entirety of 2019 (28 games total). Features for consumers will be introduced gradually. Concedes that even stuff on the backend for developers isn't fully finalized yet either.
- Wants to have more social media integration. Currently already possible to connect Facebook, Vk, Steam, Twitch, PS, Switch, Xbox, and Google accounts.
- Suggested regional prices are indicated for developers. Limited support currently. Shown as a %age discount rather than the adjusted number in the local currency, so developers have a better gauge on how much cheaper their game is sold for in lower income regions.
- It will be possible to follow unreleased games.
- "Cards" not planned. Considers it to have an undesirable effect on purchasing decisions, e.g. buying games you don't really want for the cards. Other collectibles, skins, or stuff like that will be possible. Not necessarily tradeable.
- They're happy with the look of the store as it is now with its big tiles. Eventually things like categories will be introduced but in broad strokes this is how it'll look.
- News feed will contain friends' activities. Not yet sure what activities exactly will shown there.
- How they got Journey. They cut a deal with Sony. Paid for it by the sound of it. RIP dreams of a Steam version, I guess. Fair game since it seems to have been organized/funded by Epic though.
- User profiles are planned for the beginning of "next year" he says, but I'm unsure whether he meant early 2019 or 2020.
- Discusses different ways to address reviews and review bombing. A pop-up asking a player to review a game after closing it -- from what I understood the idea is that only a certain subset of players will then get to review it, it isn't something everyone can do at any time. Another option he mentioned was only allowing/showing reviews of people who have recently played the game. Instead of like/dislike system a numeral system, which is monitored and an algorithm removes the extremes -- this is a reference to a similar system implemented on some other website/service that I'm not familiar with. They're still figuring out how to best approach it. Galyonkin personally likes the post game pop-up idea.
- To be clear: those are two different options they've thought of. Either or. In any case, it's still all a work in progress. Galyonkin was just airing different approaches they've considered. If you read on, he says that devs will have no moderation powers over reviews.
- Developers will not be able to directly moderate reviews. They can flag them for review by Epic.
- No plans for blockchain tech!
- Currently, all regions get the same build of the game. So if you purchase a game in Russia, for example, it won't be that it only has Russian language in-game (as is apparently the case for some Ubisoft games). If this is requested by developers, it can be changed. (This response came up a lot by the way -- basically, if devs want a feature, it seems Epic is willing to do their best to implement it for them by launch)
- No plans to get into the hardware business.
- (In response to a question about this) Galyonkin is considering login using Steam account. Says why not. Will discuss it internally.
- About price errors: if a user buys a game on the cheap through a price error and it's Epic's fault, they won't revoke the purchase. If it's a devs fault, it's up to them.
Aaaaand that's it. I don't think I'll do the same for the other podcast episodes. This took quite some time :')
PS: Podcast was recorded on the 9th of December. |
https://www.resetera.com/threads/epic-games-store-discussion.86783/page-14#post-16826016
Lot of stuff WIP , lots of stuff they have no clue how will look and bunch of really weird ideas = > sounds like they rush it like hell to bank on the algorytm bu |
Garbage |
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 00:33 Post subject: |
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oh forgot to post part 1 and part 2 of that infodump , some really fun stuff there 
| Quote: | Going through the aforementioned podcast with Galyonkin and a bunch of really interesting tidbits came up already:
- EGS will not focus on discovery like Valve. Instead, they will have a curated front page like the App Store. The primary way of "discovering" games will be developers giving out keys to streamers through EGS. Streamers of course are inventivized to "sell" games because they can get a cut of the sale.
- You will also eventually be able to follow games and get notifications about big updates and such, which may help get visibility to your game.
- Cloud saves coming around February.
- By the end of 2019, EGS will open to self-publishing.
- EGS will give developers as much info on players as is legally possible. He mentioned something about being able to see what other games consumers are playing. I'm not sure this would be allowed by default under GDPR however.
This data will not be publicly available. There will be an API that can be scraped to facilitate a potential "Epic Spy" but they will not offer that service themselves.
- The launch build of games are tested for playability.
- A little hazy on this part, but, from what I understood, EGS is currently also doing off-site marketing for the games that are on their store. I don't recall if that's just for exclusives. Don't believe they said anything about that once the store goes open for self publishing.
- No massive seasonal sale events like on Steam. This is said to kill sales for games that don't do a discount in that period as well as for new games. Instead, games on sale will be featured alongside the regular stuff.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/epic-games-store-discussion.86783/page-11#post-16811353
| Quote: | Listening to the 2nd half of the podcast. There's a lot to unpack there.
About interacting with influencers, sending keys, referral cuts:
- Currently 5% cut for influencers by default (paid for by Epic), can change this as high as 100%. You can set it at 0% as well, but at the moment 5% will in any case be covered by Epic.
- After a while, Galyonkin expects market standards to develop, e.g. for indies a 20% cut but for larger publisher backed games 5%. I thought this was kinda odd for him to say since indies need the larger share and it'd make more sense for 5% for indies at most. I guess this isn't supposed to be the lion's share of sales, but still. If a streamer manages to refer a 100 sales, great, but the dev loses 32% of the sale right there (12% + 20%), that's quite much. If this becomes popular and will be implemented on Steam, that's half of your revenue just outright gone. 55% even for Unreal Engine games.
- Developer can automatically give out keys to groups of influencers. It isn't really clear if this was referring to specific sub-groups of influencers or broader groups like podcasters, youtubers, twitch, bloggers, press, etc.
- There are different filters for influencers and press. The press won't get a commercial link. Influencers get a filter that indicates whether they are "verified" or not.
- Unverified influences are all who applied to this program and went through a rudimentary check. They check that this person is indeed who they are presenting themselves as and whether they have a channel that has more than 1k subs.
- After a certain amount of referred sales, verified influencers are checked a second time. To check that everything is normal in terms of their content and other issues.
- Together with the copy of the game that devs send to influencers they can include a short text what kind of game it is, links to guides, asset packs.
- This was an interesting point: Epic doesn't want to give devs the ability to contact individual influencers, because influencers don't like it when they're bombarded constantly with personal emails. All they want from developers is that they're given the game and they'll play it. If devs want to contact them personally, they'll have to do that through other channels.
- They also plan to implement something like subscriptions to influencers.
Anyway, it's a really cool podcast. If you understand Russian (a big ask, no doubt), it's 100% worth listening to. |
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 01:48 Post subject: |
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if they manage to pay off for a console exclusive to be ported over to PC, it better not be fucking RGG games.
if they do i will be very disappointed sega. but i will also gladly pirate that game as it's likely that i already have it on ps4 anyway
Gustave the Steel
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 02:28 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | oh forgot to post part 1 and part 2 of that infodump , some really fun stuff there
| Quote: | Going through the aforementioned podcast with Galyonkin and a bunch of really interesting tidbits came up already:
- EGS will not focus on discovery like Valve. Instead, they will have a curated front page like the App Store. The primary way of "discovering" games will be developers giving out keys to streamers through EGS. Streamers of course are inventivized to "sell" games because they can get a cut of the sale.
- You will also eventually be able to follow games and get notifications about big updates and such, which may help get visibility to your game.
- Cloud saves coming around February.
- By the end of 2019, EGS will open to self-publishing.
- EGS will give developers as much info on players as is legally possible. He mentioned something about being able to see what other games consumers are playing. I'm not sure this would be allowed by default under GDPR however.
This data will not be publicly available. There will be an API that can be scraped to facilitate a potential "Epic Spy" but they will not offer that service themselves.
- The launch build of games are tested for playability.
- A little hazy on this part, but, from what I understood, EGS is currently also doing off-site marketing for the games that are on their store. I don't recall if that's just for exclusives. Don't believe they said anything about that once the store goes open for self publishing.
- No massive seasonal sale events like on Steam. This is said to kill sales for games that don't do a discount in that period as well as for new games. Instead, games on sale will be featured alongside the regular stuff.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/epic-games-store-discussion.86783/page-11#post-16811353
| Quote: | Listening to the 2nd half of the podcast. There's a lot to unpack there.
About interacting with influencers, sending keys, referral cuts:
- Currently 5% cut for influencers by default (paid for by Epic), can change this as high as 100%. You can set it at 0% as well, but at the moment 5% will in any case be covered by Epic.
- After a while, Galyonkin expects market standards to develop, e.g. for indies a 20% cut but for larger publisher backed games 5%. I thought this was kinda odd for him to say since indies need the larger share and it'd make more sense for 5% for indies at most. I guess this isn't supposed to be the lion's share of sales, but still. If a streamer manages to refer a 100 sales, great, but the dev loses 32% of the sale right there (12% + 20%), that's quite much. If this becomes popular and will be implemented on Steam, that's half of your revenue just outright gone. 55% even for Unreal Engine games.
- Developer can automatically give out keys to groups of influencers. It isn't really clear if this was referring to specific sub-groups of influencers or broader groups like podcasters, youtubers, twitch, bloggers, press, etc.
- There are different filters for influencers and press. The press won't get a commercial link. Influencers get a filter that indicates whether they are "verified" or not.
- Unverified influences are all who applied to this program and went through a rudimentary check. They check that this person is indeed who they are presenting themselves as and whether they have a channel that has more than 1k subs.
- After a certain amount of referred sales, verified influencers are checked a second time. To check that everything is normal in terms of their content and other issues.
- Together with the copy of the game that devs send to influencers they can include a short text what kind of game it is, links to guides, asset packs.
- This was an interesting point: Epic doesn't want to give devs the ability to contact individual influencers, because influencers don't like it when they're bombarded constantly with personal emails. All they want from developers is that they're given the game and they'll play it. If devs want to contact them personally, they'll have to do that through other channels.
- They also plan to implement something like subscriptions to influencers.
Anyway, it's a really cool podcast. If you understand Russian (a big ask, no doubt), it's 100% worth listening to. |
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Its only fun if it spells out their downfall.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 05:58 Post subject: |
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God, "influencers". Makes me want to shoot a motherfucker every time that gets trotted out.
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 06:05 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:28; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Mon, 14th Jan 2019 08:28 Post subject: |
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Finally found the time to read the post.
I have the feeling that that Galokin guy is a hipster type that thought that he could do everything better than steam in his steamspy days and now he got the chance but now he probably realizes that everything was easier said than done. Finding viable solutions isnt his strong suit imo.
*Visibility of games: if the ui stays the same you can forget about that even if they add categories. Gl to the indie devs that thought epic would change that. People can easily turn their back on AAA games and forget the franchise ever existed because of shitty practices of devs and a different launcher (see games on origin or uplay in the past) so gl indies that wanna faceplant
*No sales? Usually companies like to actually do a sale at the end of the year because business reasons why would that galokin guy think that this is a good idea.
*no review bombing=small example: what would have happened to arkham knight if not for review bombs. Censorship much?
*not everyone will be able to post review: doesnt that defeat the purpose of reviews. Maybe the reviews wont represent the general consencus at all.
*reviews can be flagged for review by the devs so epic an check them. Where do they want to fid the man power for that anyhow. Removing extremes?= shouldnt that be the case for extreme good reviews that totally ignore common game breaking issues everyone has? And again: censorship much?
*influencers getting paid to boost sales. Ethically questionable. Since it is a percentage they earn influencers have a incentive to make AAA games look good een if they are shit. Not so much for indie games since they are usually cheaper. Thanks for better visibility am i rite indie devs?
Great shitshow. My popcorn is ready.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9578
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Jan 2019 17:51 Post subject: |
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-epic-games-store-as-described-by-sergey-galyonkin-steamspy-creator-currently-at-epic-update-sergey-clarifying-points-on-twitter.93249/
According to SteamSpy dude 50% of the Fornite audience do not have Steam installed, and 30% have it installed but do not actively use it. So only 20% of the Fortnite audience are frequent users of Steam.
In other words those targeting this store are targeting an untapped audience, an audience that by and large do not use Steam. It solves the problem of convincing them to give up Steam, doesn't it?
The problem with untapped audiences is exactly that.. it's not exactly a walk in the park to.. tap them. Do all these Fortnite players have an interest in buying all these indies they never bought before (if they had, then surely they would have Steam installed in their computers and using it from time to time) or will they see these games and be like "meh, not my cup of tea"? Time will tell.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Tue, 15th Jan 2019 17:57 Post subject: |
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hmmm 20% are users of steam .... thats pretty much in line with what could be overall platform split between 5 platforms Forknife is on 
Loved how he tried to clarify on twitter the above info from podcast , by basically saying the same thing as the guy who made the summary and sometimes even worse
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