How is Valve greedy and lazy when they made the best.
There are big R&D costs to innovate.
If you copy the reference WMR design, then there are no big R&D costs. And those devices cost 300, 400, 500. Imagine how much it costs to actually innovate.
Moving on from WMR, the Oculus Rift S is a sidegrade from the Rift, and the original Oculus headsets are basically based on Valve's VR prototype design they got for free from them.
Most of the core of modern VR was born and developed at Valve.
Lol so what vr was I using in 2013 ?
That thing called Oculus Rift DK1, made by Luckey and that Doom guy from ID software...
And while the S is a "sidegrade" from CV1, the upgrade is very nice - the screen is brighter, no screen door effect, perfect tracking in whole room without any external cameras setup or limits, the headset stereo cameras allow You to see the outside world without taking the hmd off which looks super dope(and weird), the controllers are still some of the best in the business with some finger tracking... and so on.
What Index upgrades for almost 3 times the price? better refresh rate, Analog finger tracking. You still need to setup cameras and so on. The experience is better probably but not THAT much than the S.
Oh and I almost forgot - The S sweet spot is greatly improved over previous models and there is the biggest benefit - The lenses focus around 50-80cm so this is the first HMD which I can use no problems without glasses/correction lenses.
Shame that they removed fantastic koss headphones from CV1. The audio on S sucks ass. It is spatial but lacks bass/quality. Oh and NO IPD adjustment which is no problem for me but might be for some
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Here's one more, very good break down from the book "Defying Reality: The Inside Story of the Virtual Reality Revolution":
Quote:
Meanwhile, Valve continued to develop its own hardware and software. By January 2013, the company had developed a monocular prototype called the Telescope.
...
And in April, the company's engineers completed their first prototype for a low-persistence, head-mounted display with built-in positional tracking-an oversized and ugly piece of hardware that was never meant to leave the lab, but represented a big first step toward a commerciall viable virtual reality headset.
Valve's team continued to tinker over the spring and summer, and by fall they had something they were ready to show off-a new system that combined optical tracking, motion sensors, high-quality optics, and low-latency displays into a demo called the Room.
...
Withness called the experience "absolutely incredible", "world changing", and "lightyears ahead of the original Oculus Dev Kit."
That last claim was of particular concern to one early visitor to the Room-Oculus VR CEO Brendan Iribe.
Iribe's own words when he tried Valve's VR prototype:
Quote:
"Then came this game-changing moment, a moment that I will absolutely never forget, when I knew VR was really going to work," Iribe said. "It was going to work for more than just enthusiasts and nerds like us. It was going to work for the entire world. As I looked around, I felt great, and I felt like I was there. All of a sudden, the switch in the back of my head flipped. Instead of thinking, 'Wow, this is a really neat VR demo 'I was in it, and I was there ... that's the magic of presence. I hadn't felt it before until that moment, and it felt great."
Iribe left the room with a new sense of purpose. "The bar had been set, this was it," he said. "This was what we had to deliver for the consumer VR to really work. You had to feel like you were there comfortably. You had to get presence."
^ By Oculus' CEO's own admission, he didn't even believe VR will be a thing while they were making their own prototypes because those never worked for him (and made him sick). He didn't feel presence until he tried Valve's prototype.
Valve had done a tremendous amount of work in tracking, low persistence, and straight up better image, work that was absolutely vital to making a commercial product for the end-user that will allow them to feel presence. Work that was freely shared with Oculus - work that Oculus used to be bought out for 2 billion dollars, and eventually deliver the first commercial/consumer product.
Quote:
He also left knowing that while Oculus was far closer to a consumer-ready product, Valve's technology offered a better experience, and that he'd need their help in order to catch up. So over the following months, the two companies kept talking and sharing knowledge. Valve set up one of their demo spaces, known as the Valve Room, at Oculus headquarters.
...
Then Facebook started talking to Brendan Iribe about an acquisition, and communication between Oculus and Valve came to a sudden halt.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
OK sure. Carmack/Luckey invented side by side, 3dof tracked headset and then the external camera. Valve invented laser tracking and then the inside out tracking which oculus is using now. They are all inventing stuff and making it better.
The tech is great and I love it, be it S or Index. I just don't like how sweaty it is, how fiddly the software is and so on. But it is still freaking magic that we have something like this nowadays.
I will probably rebuy S just to play Alyx and sell it after this.
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
Yes, I'm just saying they were doing research before the first consumer-oriented Oculus headset was released, and they were actually directly responsible for it. They made some very vital contributions that make modern VR.. modern and consumer oriented, and not something for hobbyists-only, which was what Luckey and Carmack had at first.
That doesn't mean Oculus didn't do a lot of important work as well. And they obviously continue to do. And these days they are completely independent from Valve so whatever they make, all the credit is theirs (even though they have hired several Valvers...).
And the Rift S is the best bang for buck right now, and the one I bought.
All this started as "Valve is lazy and greedy, this is why the Index is expensive". While the answer is R&D, a fuckton of R&D since the very early days of VR. But people think that's "lazy".
And that's it.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Gaming has never been more starved for innovation, amazed theres backlash against one company innovating, willing to lose millions on VR or even making games. They could just sit back do nothing, or the EA, Acti/Blizz approach just release half baked uninspired online only sequels and mobile games forever.
Gaming has never been more starved for innovation, amazed theres backlash against one company innovating, willing to lose millions on VR or even making games. They could just sit back do nothing, or the EA, Acti/Blizz approach just release half baked uninspired online only sequels and mobile games forever.
Careful, don't choke too hard on that valve dick
They've released what, 10 games on the last 10 years? And some of those seem to have been only (or at least heavily directed) for an asian market AND seem to be the uninspired online only sequels (Counter-Strike Online 2, Counter-Strike Nexon: Zombies, Left 4 Dead: Survivors) you seem to hate so... ?
boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
Valve have nothing to do with those games. If they are uninspired, it's not their fault.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Well, anyways, got a Rift S for 300€ from a friend who got himself an Index.
And I gotta say, this shit is the bees knees.
I was expecting a lot given how much time this technology had to mature but it's even better than I expected, and the people I've had try it out had the same opinion.
It's smooth, it's accurate, the very first demo you try you immediately feel that uncanny connection to your virtual hands. It just works.
Depth works great up close but everything at a certain distance looks kind of like you're look at a wallpaper, scale still works well though.
Feedback from the controllers is great and shooting a gun feels ridiculously intuitive. Pistol style guns that is.
So far I've tried Beat Saber (of course, because it's so disgustingly popular) and it's decent fun, definitely good for a party where you have a giggle at each others elegance.
That Rick Morty game is pretty good, quite versatile. Vivecraft (Minecraft VR) is super cool take on that same old game breathing fresh air into it. Tetris Effect VR is a whole different experience, definitely improved.
And I tried that EmuVR thing where you can just sit in a 90's themed room and play Retroarch and even Light Gun games. It's very promising.
I definitely have to use teleport style movement so far though otherwise I get motion sick within seconds. The games where analogue moving makes the FOV tiny work pretty well though.
Screen door effect is negligible, 80 hz definitely feels like its enough, but you definitely want to maintain those 80fps no matter what.
Gotta say though I'm lucky because my IPD is exactly 60mm - which is the biggest downside of the Rift S, no mechnical IPD adjustment.
Pretty sure the whole Alyx thing is gonna cause a whole wave of converting people into VR fans.
And I'm pretty sure my friends that have tried it so far are on the verge of buying one as well.
I can only imagine how amazing it must be with the Index, the increased refresh rate, FOV, resolution and those amazing controllers.
VR heaven.
Shit why didn't I try this earlier? I only realized how affordable VR had become because of this whole shit.
I wonder what I should try next. I'm eyeing Superhot VR.
Yeah, I'm playing Superhot right now (very fun), but if you are now ready for a story driven game with strong production values and visuals, it's time to play Lone Echo.
IPD is not nearly as critical as some people might have you believe, as long as you are not considerably off the optimal range. Which BTW, you ARE off the optimal range, if your IPD is 60
Fixed lens IPD: 63.5mm
“Best for users between 61.5 and 65.5mm
But like I said, if you are not that far from the range (60 is pretty close), it works alright. BTW, there's a software adjustment you can make to help a little, so make sure to set the IPD to 60 in the settings, if you haven't done that yet. https://support.oculus.com/2260888410631788/
But this is yet another downgrade from the original Rift. It's these kinds of things that make people consider the Rift S a sidegrade instead of a true upgrade.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
I have been waiting to take the plunge into VR. I have wanted to ever since the Oculus was available. But, nothing was really up to par to make me want to spend the money.
I had demoed the Oculus, The original Vive, and a few months ago I demoed the Vive Pro.
The Vive Pro wowed me a little and I nearly bought one. Then, I tried my friend's Index. HOLY SHIT. I placed my order Saturday for the full kit. I didn't know anything about this new Half Life Title to be honest. Can't wait to play with that thing.
The resolution and the field of view was FINALLY enough to make me want one. The controllers are pretty sweet too.
Bruh, you dropped a grand for that?
I wish I had that kind of disposable income.
The Index apparently really is in a whole other league than the rest.
To the point where, thanks to the Index, VR is finally viable to a whole lot more people.
If it weren't so rediciously expensive..
I did. But the Vive Pro was even more than that.
It is a lot of money, but I had it to spend and I was really "wow'd" by the thing.
Hell I've spent way more than that on a single computer upgrade before.
Granted, I get way more use out of that than I probably will this headset but I really can't wait to use the thing in No Man's Sky, Skyrim, and Elite Dangerous. Plus all the other games and software I have already bought for it.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
Fixed lens IPD: 63.5mm
“Best for users between 61.5 and 65.5mm
But like I said, if you are not that far from the range (60 is pretty close), it works alright. BTW, there's a software adjustment you can make to help a little, so make sure to set the IPD to 60 in the settings, if you haven't done that yet. https://support.oculus.com/2260888410631788/
But this is yet another downgrade from the original Rift. It's these kinds of things that make people consider the Rift S a sidegrade instead of a true upgrade.
Oh shit. Why did I think 30mm/60mm is the optimal. Yea does seem like I'm off the optimal range.
But shows how the sweet spot has improved cause it works perfectly fine, everything is sharp and dandy.
First thing I did was set the software IPD.
Also why is the steam content sharing section of a popular russian forum down for weeks now.. where am I gonna get all the demos for my VR games from.
Well, anyways, got a Rift S for 300€ from a friend who got himself an Index.
And I gotta say, this shit is the bees knees.
Shit why didn't I try this earlier? I only realized how affordable VR had become because of this whole shit.
I wonder what I should try next. I'm eyeing Superhot VR.
probably because everyone was too busy talking about VR being a fad or whinging about having to spend money to get it
another convert for the cause.. i need a vr emote
i'm sad because i don't think i can use the rift S with its limited IPD so basically I have to buy an index or wmr eventually when it's time to retire my vive why did they design the rift with such a shitty IPD limitation
if you like simulators, i've been playing a decent amount of eurotruck lately, it's the shit driving in VR (well if you have another over-priced peripheral known as a wheel, i think i have everything now except a buttkicker/motion sim ).
it's really good at night with the vives godlike black levels. index got nothing on this shit.
if you have some stamina, pistol whip is all the rage at the moment although it's not really as good as beat saber.
git those vr legs working asap then you can shoot mans in onward/contractors/pavlov/zero caliber and play a lot more interesting stuff.
You can get the Quest, that one has IPD adjustment and is not far behind the S when linked up to PC (in direct comparison it will look a bit blurrier, but it's well acceptable by many).
Resale prices of the Quest have hit 150% of MSRP price, as many retailers have their stock reduced thanks to black week.
Good news for those that bought it in time, and good news for VR in general (stock and prices should go back to normal in time).
I'm absolutely certain HL:A helped.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
it's really good at night with the vives godlike black levels. index got nothing on this shit.
After trying the index and the Vive Pro. . . the index black levels aren't as horrible as everyone seems to think. The higher refresh rate, fov, and nearly zero screen door effect really made up the small difference in my mind.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
it's really good at night with the vives godlike black levels. index got nothing on this shit.
After trying the index and the Vive Pro. . . the index black levels aren't as horrible as everyone seems to think. The higher refresh rate, fov, and nearly zero screen door effect really made up the small difference in my mind.
haha it's the only benefit of the vive, well other than being cheap. i wouldn't choose the vive over the index today for sure (or the vive pro for that matter).
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Anyway, VR is not a monitor strapped to your face, nor are you supposed to use it for the same things you use a monitor for, so it's not directly comparable. If you watch films in it it will suck, but the low resolution of the panel will suck far more than the contrast ratio.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
it's really good at night with the vives godlike black levels. index got nothing on this shit.
After trying the index and the Vive Pro. . . the index black levels aren't as horrible as everyone seems to think. The higher refresh rate, fov, and nearly zero screen door effect really made up the small difference in my mind.
haha it's the only benefit of the vive, well other than being cheap. i wouldn't choose the vive over the index today for sure (or the vive pro for that matter).
I guess it all comes down to whats more important to you. FOV, Refresh Rate, and no screen door or Darker blacks. I tried both and the greyer blacks weren't enought to sway me from the index. But I am sure some people would prefer the better blacks I guess.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
Anyway, VR is not a monitor strapped to your face, nor are you supposed to use it for the same things you use a monitor for, so it's not directly comparable. If you watch films in it it will suck, but the low resolution of the panel will suck far more than the contrast ratio.
It is comparable to a display in a very dark if not pitch black room. Black level has tremendous effect on image quality in these conditions.
And why would you only want contrast for movies?
I am really speaking for myself here! Not even trying to persuade anyone here. I just know these kinds of measurements. I know 0.04 nits black and it wasn't good. Then I had 0.003 nits black and that clearly wasn't black and it suffered noticeable in darker scenes. Now I have an OLED TV...
I just hope for better technologies. Its unfortunate that some devices do better black and others show a less pronounced screen door effect, etc.
That's a TV, so it must be VA panel so it's not even the same technology.
Contrast is a good thing, but when in VR there are more important things than it, and also since you can do more than passively watch the content served to you you can easier forget about the shortcomings, i.e. when you are playing a game the interactivity will excite you.
If you are watching a movie in VR, there's nothing but the movie, so there's nothing but the poor resolution and contrast ratio to deal with. So in that case, contrast would be way more important.
It's unfortunate that we can't have everything, but that's no different than with PC monitors. If you want a high contrast PC monitor, you will big get big drawbacks in other areas.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Off topic: Boneworks comes out today, so VR owners prepare to get boned!
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
I would also recommend getting a gunstock from www.protubevr.com it makes the immersion alot better when playing FPS games. I got it for my OG Vive but now I'm waiting for magnetic cups for the Rift S.
Is Half-Life: Alyx coming to PSVR? Not according to the debut trailer, but it's still something worth asking. In fact, we asked Valve this very question shortly after the game's announcement. We've just heard back, and the answer is unsurprisingly vague -- but it isn't a "no".
Designer Greg Coomer reconfirms that the "initial" release of Half-Life: Alyx will be "available for SteamVR only". It definitely sounds like Valve is aware of the desire to see the game come to PSVR, however: "We believe Sony’s VR platform has been a huge success for the medium, and we assume that lots of Sony customers would love to experience this new chapter of Half-Life."
Coomer goes on to confirm that a PlayStation VR port is not in active development "because we’re very focused on the initial release". Having said that, he concludes that Valve has "not ruled anything out".
PS4 & PSVR wouldn't be able to handle it anyway, but I can certainly see a PS5 & PSVR2 port down the line.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
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why did they design the rift with such a shitty IPD limitation 
