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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51436
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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 Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 12:27 Post subject: |
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| TheZor wrote: | | red_avatar wrote: | | Yuri wrote: |  |
If any job has eroded severely the past two decades, it's definitely journalism. Newspapers just copy 90% of all their information from central sources and then wonder why people stop reading them and blame the Internet. Well maybe if you wrote some proper & unique not to mention ACCURATE articles of your own, people would perhaps wish to pay for them. If you just copy paste nonsense that you can read for free on a dozen other sites, you're no journalist, you're a wannabe.
And dear lord, the amount of bad grammar and spelling mistakes you read these days ... . It seems nearly all of the staff of Flemish newspapers consists of 20-30 year old girls who are wet behind the ears posting crap you see all over social media. |
Boys don't make grammar or spelling mistakes ?  |
I guess all the editors are some teen females too? 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14362
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 12:59 Post subject: |
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Some of the same people who criticize bad journalism (and rightly so) will defend capitalist practices and therefor big corporate bought journalism or ad-sponsored/sensationalist/populist journalism. Either you have some kind of no-ties state subsidies for journalism (in which case they will cry because government narrative or communism) or you have much of the shit we have now. Either way, idealism and integrity don’t pay. Also a lot of people criticizing the press simply don’t see their view published enough. Doesn’t necessary imply their truth is better.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 19:19 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:14; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 19:22 Post subject: |
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 20:40 Post subject: |
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Hammers see nails and Red is seeing problematic women. What else is new. 
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 20:52 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 21:01 Post subject: |
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i love how keemstar is getting shat on atm by h3h3 , and well deserved, these fake drama cockroaches need to be exposed and blacklisted off the internet, they literally can kill people who might already have mental health isseus
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51436
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 21:39 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | TheZor wrote: | | Boys don't make grammar or spelling mistakes ? |
They do, but it's mostly girls they hire for some reason and who make the worst spelling mistakes. You know, there's this truly magical thing called "the author" of the article so *gasp* you can actually SEE it's mostly girls writing the articles. Amazing, isn't it? And an even more amazing thing is that publications LIST the people that work for them so even EASIER to see 70-80% are all female. |
Sometimes you are fucking deranged... show us where the big bad girl touched you already 
You do realize that any newspaper has an editor? That reads and decides if whatever article is published or not, where it's published and if there are going to be changes or not?
So most editors are also female or what? 
Huh, never thought VG24/7 had these types of gamejourno idiots writing for them. Shows how much they're on the ropes if they need this clickbait shit.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 21:58 Post subject: |
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| paxsali wrote: |
It's funny because the two examples are not even comparable and therefore the analogy is not true.
One example was because of the environment at the time (the mafia) and not about the individual journalist's behavior or code of conduct.
The other example is literally just about one particular individual journalist, like with a name and a social security number, that's unique.
It's like saying ....
Presidents in the 50's:
PLACEBO
Presidents today:
Orange faced orangutan.
You're talking about Trump. Like, you literally are talking about Donald J. Trump. You are refering to HIM, -> in comparison -> to ALL OTHER presidents -> because THAT makes sense...
 |
Is this you doing your bit again? It's clearly taking aim at some of the self-styled journalists rather the social media pariah of today who love to manufacture outrage. Especially since they turn everything into an Idpol issue and make a mountain out of a molehill. This entire thread is filled with examples of such people.
@Toni: VG247 went down the drain a long time ago. This is another one of their recent tweets:
https://twitter.com/VG247/status/1263845695217426439
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 23:03 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:14; edited 2 times in total
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51436
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 23:40 Post subject: |
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As much as it pains me paxaxa is right.
It's comparing a chad journo from the 50's to a soyboy journo from nowadays. Pretty sure that in the fifties if you had the interwebs around you'd also have people with no formal journalism training and zero talent reporting somewhere that a teddy boy looked at him the wrong way
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 23:48 Post subject: |
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| paxsali wrote: | @You Reeeeeeeeee
No, Meng, but it's just not comparable. They're trying to establish some kind of "new overarching paradigm" when in reality it's literally isolated individual instances of individual persons. |
Did you even read what I wrote? Have you even checked out this thread? You know, the thread which talks about these very people? The only one Reeeing here is you and the best part is you even managed to bring Trump into this.
| tonizito wrote: | As much as it pains me paxaxa is right.
It's comparing a chad journo from the 50's to a soyboy journo from nowadays. Pretty sure that in the fifties if you had the interwebs around you'd also have people with no formal journalism training and zero talent reporting somewhere that a teddy boy looked at him the wrong way |
Except paxsali is going on ridiculous tangents that don't make a bit of sense. You can make the hypothetical case for a lot of things this way and we can all speculate whether it would be possible but the history is there for all to see. We can't really make assumptions about how people would do a certain thing in a particular era if a particular thing existed then. A lot of factors at play here which can affect behaviour.
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Tue, 26th May 2020 23:58 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 00:09 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:14; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 00:24 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:14; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 00:25 Post subject: |
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There probably is still quality journalism out there today, The problem is that everyday people prefer to get their news from any hobo with a webcam making funny noises or quick editing on youtube. The masses don't value quality objective information, therefore it's getting lost in the modern era.
Imagine if in the 50's you had 100 million unskilled uneducated dickheads having their own news channel on T.V > welcome to 2020.
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 00:37 Post subject: |
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Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 23:14; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 00:48 Post subject: |
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@Paxsali
It's a meme that takes aim at the current environment filled with numerous journalists using all available forms of media dissemination to further false narratives. Please just stop talking like a hyperactive tumblrina.
@Red
Like you said, clickbait and cheap are big contributing factors here for sure. These bad excuses are giving the good ones a bad name with their underhanded tactics.
@Ampeg
Right, another problem is that there are honest and dishonest people that can be found on both sides (amateur and professional) which makes the situation murkier.
@Paxsali
You're right when you say that "Opinion journalism is not journalism, it's entertainment." BUT the issue is that many now resort to hiding their opinion piece as hard news. Fudging the facts, misrepresenting the truth etc is starting to become more and more commonplace now.
1 and 2 are still amazing.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51436
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 10:20 Post subject: |
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| red_avatar wrote: | | Oh for fucks sake - you can't be that dense can you? I spell it out like to a 5 year old and you still can't get it? JOURNALISM IS SHIT BECAUSE THE WRITERS ARE YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED, CHEAP, WRITE CLICK BAIT AND NO LONGER DO INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM. There. Is that easier to get now? I can use colours next time. It's not like what I'm saying is even news - it's been known for many years that the money is gone and now they rely on click bait. But hey, if you think you're clever to jump on my case and call me names well have fun being so immature. |
But that wasn't what you posted. You posted something like that, but "strangely" zeroed in the wahmen part, that is now absent from this post 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Wed, 27th May 2020 13:31 Post subject: |
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| TheZorina wrote: | Man, people have rose-tinted glasses about what journalism used to be in the good old days and how unbiased/non-partisan they supposedly were or how little language mistakes they made back then
I'm sure they all had wonderful journalist ethics and always proof-read all their articles, |
I don't think anyone here is under the impression that it was perfect back in the day either because we all know there used to be problems then as well - many of which you've mentioned. Yellow journalism was a big issue then before fact checking came into the forefront. Not sure why you are bringing typos into the equation though because it was even more tedious then!
| Quote: | | and trash, bottom-of-the-barrel ventures didn't exist either. |
Most of these trashy papers found it difficult to sustain because they didn't have too many financial avenues to rely on back in the day.
| Quote: | | There are still the same quality news outlet than before, |
Partly true because most of the old guard have either left the field or retired. Many of the new charge only have the vaguest of ideas about how it works. The other new ones who genuinely want to write good news are hampered by the overlords who want to sell advertising revenue. All these frustrations have also led to many of the good people not sticking around in journalism for the long term as well.
| Quote: | | the Internet just allowed for the mass production and consumption of low quality, free bullshit |
Yes, this is exactly the thing causing such an imbalance and drowning the high quality news/articles because clicks have become important in generating revenue. Classic quantity over quality.
| Quote: | | apparently it's also an issue that comes with the feminisation of the job |
In what context do you mean femnisation of the job?
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Thu, 28th May 2020 10:34 Post subject: |
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| Yuri wrote: | | TheZorina wrote: | Man, people have rose-tinted glasses about what journalism used to be in the good old days and how unbiased/non-partisan they supposedly were or how little language mistakes they made back then
I'm sure they all had wonderful journalist ethics and always proof-read all their articles, |
I don't think anyone here is under the impression that it was perfect back in the day either because we all know there used to be problems then as well - many of which you've mentioned. Yellow journalism was a big issue then before fact checking came into the forefront. Not sure why you are bringing typos into the equation though because it was even more tedious then! |
That was more about red_avatar's former post in which he focused on spelling/grammar mistakes rather than the continuation you had with others about the intrinsic quality of the content in itself 
I don't doubt you don't think it was perfect before, but I still had the impression that you and red find it was vastly better before.. which I'm unsure about.
| Yuri wrote: | | Quote: | | and trash, bottom-of-the-barrel ventures didn't exist either. |
Most of these trashy papers found it difficult to sustain because they didn't have too many financial avenues to rely on back in the day. |
Yellow journalism/tabloids might have struggled to durably keep financially afloat in a more acute way before, but they have persisted since their birth and have always found their audience, even with their ups and downs.
| Yuri wrote: | | Quote: | | There are still the same quality news outlet than before, |
Partly true because most of the old guard have either left the field or retired. Many of the new charge only have the vaguest of ideas about how it works. The other new ones who genuinely want to write good news are hampered by the overlords who want to sell advertising revenue. All these frustrations have also led to many of the good people not sticking around in journalism for the long term as well. |
This is where I don't really agree with this whole "old guard" retiring idea.. A lot of this reads like feelings about a jolly time when journalism was better and heartfelt (there were some wake-up calls moments like this in the history of journalism ), but I would like to see it backed up with cold hard facts. An "old guard" that is in fact the result of a long filtering process which crowned them as said "guard" can easily judge a new generation for which said filtering process hasn't even begun.
| Yuri wrote: | | Quote: | | the Internet just allowed for the mass production and consumption of low quality, free bullshit |
Yes, this is exactly the thing causing such an imbalance and drowning the high quality news/articles because clicks have become important in generating revenue. Classic quantity over quality. |
It's quite a cyclical event looking at past history, but unfortunately, click-bait, low-effort stuff just kind of works. There are a lot of factors at hand here in our consumption of information and opinion other than it, but the Internet does make it worse, indeed.
| Yuri wrote: | | Quote: | | apparently it's also an issue that comes with the feminisation of the job |
In what context do you mean femnisation of the job? |
In the sheer context of red saying this:
| red_avatar wrote: | - it's mostly girls they hire for some reason and who make the worst spelling mistakes
-publications LIST the people that work for them so even EASIER to see 70-80% are all female |
Most studies show that the field still sees more males working than females in paper (or online paper) media, while there seems to be a majority of females ( 60/40 usually ) in journalism schools.
Hard to do this without compiling a lot of different studies, which I don't have the time for, but it was just to show how his figures were pulled from his as... unbiased empirical analysis. Same thing for "females make the worst mistakes". But from the following replies, it seems like he won't follow through on that
---
I came across this rather nice column trying to search for sale figures, and it conveys my opinion pretty accurately, minus some stuff : https://daily.jstor.org/to-fix-fake-news-look-to-yellow-journalism/.
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| Posted: Sun, 31st May 2020 13:20 Post subject: |
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| TheZorina wrote: |
Yellow journalism/tabloids might have struggled to durably keep financially afloat in a more acute way before, but they have persisted since their birth and have always found their audience, even with their ups and downs. |
True but as I said before back these papers didn't tend to stay alive for too long. It's just that they were replaced by others as is the cyclical nature of tabloids except now they can just as well rely on patreon/gofundme/google adsense etc etc to stay desperately alive like a cockroach after a nuclear holocaust.
| Quote: |
This is where I don't really agree with this whole "old guard" retiring idea.. A lot of this reads like feelings about a jolly time when journalism was better and heartfelt (there were some wake-up calls moments like this in the history of journalism ), but I would like to see it backed up with cold hard facts. An "old guard" that is in fact the result of a long filtering process which crowned them as said "guard" can easily judge a new generation for which said filtering process hasn't even begun. |
Guuurl noooo, you're misconstruing the point of this paragraph. When I say "old guard", I mean the more older people who stuck through the times stubbornly or didn't want to change their field and thus became more experienced. I don't think of them as people passing through any judgements or purity tests etc etc. There is no glorifying the olden times nor is there any nostalgia about the "jolly time(s)" as you say nor is there any judgement. Well, other than the whole "in my time we didn't use computers" thing that keeps happening every half a decade or so but that's another story. Regarding the job changes, I had some links from before that showed this trend of journos moving on after a decade. Will post when I find them or you can check the trends in some of those job sites. Mainly due to the stagnant money and censorship/lack of freedom due to the company policies or stakeholders. Back when I was a tech reporter, I personally saw many people I knew from other organisations move to the other side i.e PR and join either the firms or the the communication departments of tech companies.
| Quote: |
Most studies show that the field still sees more males working than females in paper (or online paper) media, while there seems to be a majority of females ( 60/40 usually ) in journalism schools.
Hard to do this without compiling a lot of different studies, which I don't have the time for, but it was just to show how his figures were pulled from his as... unbiased empirical analysis. Same thing for "females make the worst mistakes". But from the following replies, it seems like he won't follow through on that |
Ah cool. Funny thing, the first fact checker in Times magazine was a lady. I came across this article a few months ago: https://time.com/4858683/fact-checking-history/ . An interesting read, check it out when you have some free time!
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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