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 Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 11:42 Post subject: |
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| sunseeker wrote: | | Yuri wrote: | | @Sunseeker: Did you play the first game? |
No, I've read that the sequel is pretty much it's own thing and can be jumped straight into without playing the first one. |
Unfortunately, that not entirely true and more of a bait to attract the co-op only players. A lot of the design choices have also been made for them even though it supports both SP and MP. D:OS2 largely assumes the Singleplayers to have finished or alteast experienced the first game so it basically throws them into the thick of it from the get go with regards to the choices and open world.
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 11:47 Post subject: |
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| Yuri wrote: |
Unfortunately, that not entirely true and more of a bait to attract the co-op only players. A lot of the design choices have also been made for them even though it supports both SP and MP. D:OS2 largely assumes the Singleplayers to have finished or alteast experienced the first game so it basically throws them into the thick of it from the get go with regards to the choices and open world. |
Ok, didn't know that. It would make sense then with the limited exposition the sequel gives you. Maybe I'll give the first one a try then.
7800x3D, 32GB DDR5 6000MHz, RTX 5070
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 12:47 Post subject: |
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| Prandur wrote: | The ability to save before each battle and reload to get the ideal outcome meant the game wasn't challenging and there was no risk associated with making a decision, and I got bored once the novelty of the world and choices wore off.
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this kind of thinking absolutely baffles me .... isnt that like enetirely on you and your lack of self control? not really problem of a game imo and isnt chasing for the "ideal outcome" kinda against the point of the branching narrative anyway?
Reminds me of all the people ranting about for example farcry and yet powering through entire game with the single method to deal with encounters they found effective and then ranting its always the same.
Like i dont really understand that as i love experiemnting and dont really mind not getting the so called "ideal outcome" |
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 15:29 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | | Prandur wrote: | The ability to save before each battle and reload to get the ideal outcome meant the game wasn't challenging and there was no risk associated with making a decision, and I got bored once the novelty of the world and choices wore off.
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this kind of thinking absolutely baffles me .... isnt that like enetirely on you and your lack of self control? not really problem of a game imo and isnt chasing for the "ideal outcome" kinda against the point of the branching narrative anyway?
Reminds me of all the people ranting about for example farcry and yet powering through entire game with the single method to deal with encounters they found effective and then ranting its always the same.
Like i dont really understand that as i love experiemnting and dont really mind not getting the so called "ideal outcome" |
I disagree completely
I love divinity, but it is a real problem.
The first problem is that not only do you have to have self control, your friends in your game do too.
The second and main problem is that the game is not created with the idea of just playing it through instead of reloading.
There are so many ways to make mistakes due to things not being explained properly or because the chat dialogues are a little too filled with filler that you sometimes don't read it carefully.
Some of the battles also have some huge surprises that pretty much assume you will reload once you realise what happens.
I would prefer limited saves for future games but only if they create it with the assumption that you have those limited saves.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 18:41 Post subject: |
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Yeah, no.
Keep your limited saves away from me. It's a you problem.
And fucking hell, in my entire play through of Div:OS I used reload 3 times. There's games out there where I savescum more *looks at HoI and CKII*. I honestly don't see why one would do it so much that it becomes a problem. The game doesn't demand that at all.
Learn to live with some failures. 
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 19:54 Post subject: |
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I'm not saying they should enforce it. Just add an option for it at game start, a "limited ironman mode" with checkpoints or with a maximum number of saves per map or one autosave after every X encounters or something. Many other games have done so successfully.
Oh and about the self-control issue... I hear that a lot, but it seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. I would consider myself as someone with ridiculously good self-control, and have no problem at all with impulsive behavior. The issue is more of a motivational one: for me, every game is a challenge, and the rules of the game are precisely those that the game offers (no game-changing mods, no tweaking of in-game files, and no made-up restrictions - with the exception of dealing with game-breaking bugs). Those are the "rules of the game", and for D:OS2 save scumming is part of those rules.
So, yeah, this probably isn't the last time you'll see me ranting about a lack of detailed difficulty options in some games.
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Morphineus
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 20:09 Post subject: |
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Nah, don't get me wrong. I'm all about options, those games I savescum usually come with ironmode and at times I do play in that mode.
I was more triggered about Bart wanting limited saves. Iron mode is a better way to do it.
You don't force your players in just one way of playing.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 20:12 Post subject: |
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I never understood complaints about such things, reminds me of fast travel hate we had in the past. Unless a game is specifically designed around an element, forcing you to use it, what exactly is the problem? Don't use it.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 20:21 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | I never understood complaints about such things, reminds me of fast travel hate we had in the past. Unless a game is specifically designed around an element, forcing you to use it, what exactly is the problem? Don't use it. |
Because of this:
| Quote: |
For me, every game is a challenge, and the rules of the game are precisely those that the game offers (no game-changing mods, no tweaking of in-game files, and no made-up restrictions - with the exception of dealing with game-breaking bugs). |
Basically, there's no enjoyment at all from playing a game with my own, made-up rules. A challenge is only valid if it is issued by the creator of that challenge/game.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 20:30 Post subject: |
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No idea what you mean since saving or not saving is not a rule. So you can't stop yourself from saving before each battle/chest/dialogue or whatever? I don't understand it. The dev does not create a challenge by allowing not to save, it changes nothing in the game. You just can't save. This can be done on your own. I assume you're talking about things like not leveling up because the game gets too easy, now that is bad game design.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Jul 2020 20:57 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | ... The dev does not create a challenge by allowing not to save, it changes nothing in the game. You just can't save. This can be done on your own. |
Of course restricting when and how saving can be done creates a challenge. That's one of the few ways that a challenge can, in fact be created: if the rules of the game are that you can save and reload whenever you want, there is no challenge whatsoever, since you can brute-force through every encounter. On the other hand, games like Slay the Spire, XCOM 1/2, Hades, EU4, Stellaris, Desperados 3 (where there are game modes that restrict your saves) can actually represent a real challenge that can't be brute-forced through but require a proper effort.
Of course you, I, or anyone can choose to play the game however they please. That's completely fine, and nobody should be forced to play games like D:OS2 with restricted saving. But adding some kind of official option to restrict saving in a meaningful way would be a game-changer for some of us.
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prudislav
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Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2020 09:36 Post subject: |
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| Prandur wrote: | | Basically, there's no enjoyment at all from playing a game with my own, made-up rules. A challenge is only valid if it is issued by the creator of that challenge/game. |
this is the part that absoluelyy baffles me and cant really understand it as it sound like ridiculous self-limiting out of soime weird sense of masochist pride or something or to me surreal self-controll issues 
but well you do you ... i will stop trying to understand  |
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2020 10:50 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 08:59; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Jul 2020 10:56 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |
I'd personally opt for something that allows you to lose... but in a way that hurts, eg: consequences tethered to losing. Like in Mount and Blade. When you fall in battle you lose meaningful resources (including people) but are eventually freed. Then you spend time building yourself back up to try things in a different way. |
That sounds like a really good system actually. In an RPG with respawning enemies, it would basically amount to a death penalty where dying costs you some amount of xp and gold (the amount lost may be tied to difficulty or something).
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| Posted: Fri, 10th Jul 2020 13:51 Post subject: |
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Did they change/add anything to the companion stories? I started a new game, playing as Irfan, I was wondering which companions to take for best story and quests. Is Irfan/Fane/Sebille/Lohse the most interesting party for side quest purposes? I did not finish the game last time, no idea where I stopped playing.
edit: I'm alsmost done with Nameless Isle, approaching the point where I gave up during my first playthrough, and I must admit I am enjoying it more now. I don't know exactly what they changed, I didn't read up on it, but it's keeping my interest now. I also like Fane, fun character to play with.
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