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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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 Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:42 Post subject: |
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Okay, I gave it 3 hours thus far.
Created a couple of characters, finished the tutorial zone (gameplay wise boring, otherwise decent), and took in a chunk of the place after the tutorial.
Graphics: slightly above DOS2
Gameplay: not bad, not bad. But I still need to get used to it. I much prefer Pathfinder Kingmaker though.
Interface: giving orders is still buggy and feels like still in draft phase.
DnD depth: sadly, this lacks the depth of 3.5 ed or Pathfinder depth. mainstreaming fail 
State: this is early access. Some parts work great, others still need a lot of passes - but I have no issue with that.
Overall - too early to tell. I got really bored by DOS2, it just wasn't focused enough for me. This feels more focused, but not as good as Kingmaker.
EDIT: DnD ruleset in 5e is too simple for my taste. Now that I gave it a more thorough test.
With a Rogue for example you use your dex for both attack rolls and damage rolls on finesse weapons from level 1. Fail. Sad.
Equip a weapon in offhand, get a free attack at max attack bonus. OMG, the fail.
Builds are vastly simplified. So sad.
Last edited by Radicalus on Tue, 6th Oct 2020 23:15; edited 1 time in total
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:45 Post subject: |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:46 Post subject: |
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That's bs. The devs or publisher's don't have access to the reviews lol.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:49 Post subject: |
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The developers can flag reviews.
A lot of people say that the most highly voted and commented review, which was negative, has been removed.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:51 Post subject: |
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uuhh the conspiracy mill is spinning at high speed already, lol.
Last edited by Sin317 on Tue, 6th Oct 2020 23:05; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 22:59 Post subject: |
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Anyone reviewing the game after one hour is dumb anyway.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 23:05 Post subject: |
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Half of the bad reviews are either:
Crashed once, fail
or
"Released too early, wait for 1.0"
Seriously, they're retarded.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9598
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 23:15 Post subject: |
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Actually, most negative reviews are about the price. I can't tell what the reported review says because I couldn't find it.
What about the good reviews? Are the hours played before posting them and the positives alright? Who would flag those?
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Oct 2020 23:55 Post subject: |
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People who complain about price and use early access as a reason are even more retarded.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:00 Post subject: |
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| shadak wrote: | | JBeckman wrote: | It's voice acted which even with better resources it's hard to do the classic D&D modules and video game adaptions when you had a entire separate document with a ton of text in it and as storage got better the lengthy descriptions and dialogues and branching dialogue trees in for here I suppose primarily the Infinity Engine games as a comparison.
I expect them to expand on what was there since Divinity Original Sin 2 but I don't think it's going to be possible to provide voice acting with script sizes on par with a couple of lengthier books.
Unfortunate but there's the budget and amount of work with recording and all the different actors and quality of said voice acting and if they don't do that a lot of players skip through dialogue or don't even pick the game up.
Modern video game development costs also means it's very hard to target a smaller more niche target base which is what many smaller studios faced with the hardware advancement into 3D accelerated graphics, CD-ROM storage and expectations and increased development costs and times in the 1990's so that's a balance act too.
Probably a lot more too, social and political stuff being a more active thing and interests and player expectations and sales demand and what not from the publisher.
I like that they're going for it but I would imagine a lengthy role playing game experience has to be a very risky project but hopefully it sells well enough to break even and then generate profit.
EDIT: It's not Fallout 4 but it's not Baldur's Gate classic either.
EDIT:
img |
I agree, there probably arent many other options for them.
But to tell the truth, it makes me a bit sad as this is labeled Baldurs Gate but doesnt have too much in common with the previous 2 games.
I just watched a bit of gameplay and it just has this weird sillyness around it with odd characters that look ugly and a bit out of place (like the initial lady companion or whatever it is) , the dialogues are mostly short sentences with mediocre acting. I know they cant expand voice acted dialogues too much but even the PC responses are couple of words even though they arent voiced. Also there seems to be a huge amount of combat.
No disrespect to the devs but this seems like a DOS with a bit of DnD lore. Oh well. |
While i agree to some degree, the problem is that gameplay that was present in BG1&2 just isn't a thing anymore. We're in a different time now and to some extent its good that way.
I replayed BG2 just a few months ago (tnx corona) and spent a good 80 hours on it and boy it bring up memories. A full bag of emotion. While i love the game to death, some of it is just tedious and boring.
The game has around 300 spells.... the amount that are useful? maybe 30? you spend most of the time using like 10 anyway. Its really fun casting protection from evil only to find out i should have casted protection from the undead instead... Or fighting vampires you have to cast Negative Plane Protection since that's the only one that works again level drain... but it doesn't work with the Mind Flyers ability score drain, because that's different... There's like a million different protections, shields etc. all targeting one specific thing and each one having a specific counter, but omg does it get tedious. I now understood why i sucked in the game back in 2000 when i was a kid basically. I'm sure all these spells are in D&D and they make sense when you're playing the tabletop since you can use them in all sorts of creative ways, but for a PC game where you are limited by so many things its just too much. Then there's the whole class system and when to multiclass or dual class and it all takes so much knowledge its insane.
I had a blast with the gameplay but its completely bonkers. Balance doesn't exist and you're basically doing all you can to win. Using bullshit mechanics? Fine. Using completely broken spell combos? YEP. I really didn't enjoy it at the start until i changed how i viewed it all. When i started to view combat as a puzzle to be solved with any means necessary is when i really started having fun with it. But it sometimes took me 30 mins to win a certain encounter (i wasn't using online guides, just for help with spells) and when i figured out the correct way it was usually done in a few seconds. Time stop is an interesting one, where you're stuck in time for 18 seconds  I have had encounters where the enemy casted time stop immediately, i had to wait 18 seconds, then 4 members were insta killed and 2 were running around like crazy being confused... when i reloaded i prepared for the encounter with all the various counters and shit and won without issue.
Can you imagine gameplay like that in 2020? I couldn't do anything for 20 seconds and then everyone died basically. Having 300 spells. Having these complicated classes etc. Having people "fight" and not hit anything because the enemy is immune to all weapons below +2? Killing bosses, by laying out a shitton of traps and when he stops talking, instakill them? Would be patched out immediately, In BG2? Great job! Creative thinking! Backstabbing dragons in 1 hit on your OP as fuck thief? No problem!
The next thing is the story which...tbh is very mediocre. What makes it all great is all the rich D&D lore and worldbuilding, but the main story is your typical evil man because he's evil. So they don't have a tall mountain to climb there, although truth be told, both D:OS and D:OS2 stories were really mediocre. My biggest gripe with both games, together with the whole goofy and cartoony feel.
Which brings me to my point, that's the only thing worrying me. That the whole thing will be a bit silly. Now BG has its silly moments, but one the whole its has a serious note, which i like. D:OS2 feels the other way around. Sure the story is supposed to be serious, but half the time i felt like i was playing a Monty Python game or to be more geeky an Acquisition Incorporated game. That's my biggest worry. A goofy BG3.
That being said, Larian is the obvious choice to make it. D:OS2 combat is (IMO) a new interpretation of BG2 combat. Every fight is a puzzle, its a bit more balanced, has some cool stuff you can do with elements (just please do something about necrofire). I hope they don't fuck it up too much.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:02 Post subject: |
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| vaifan1986 wrote: | | Nah, waiting for all the content and for all of the inevitable bugs gets solved. |
Same here, the temptation is there but the bear allergic to Early Access shall be patient this time around. Something of the caliber of BG3 deserves to be savoured properly  |
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shadak
Posts: 1097
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:22 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: | | shadak wrote: | | JBeckman wrote: | It's voice acted which even with better resources it's hard to do the classic D&D modules and video game adaptions when you had a entire separate document with a ton of text in it and as storage got better the lengthy descriptions and dialogues and branching dialogue trees in for here I suppose primarily the Infinity Engine games as a comparison.
I expect them to expand on what was there since Divinity Original Sin 2 but I don't think it's going to be possible to provide voice acting with script sizes on par with a couple of lengthier books.
Unfortunate but there's the budget and amount of work with recording and all the different actors and quality of said voice acting and if they don't do that a lot of players skip through dialogue or don't even pick the game up.
Modern video game development costs also means it's very hard to target a smaller more niche target base which is what many smaller studios faced with the hardware advancement into 3D accelerated graphics, CD-ROM storage and expectations and increased development costs and times in the 1990's so that's a balance act too.
Probably a lot more too, social and political stuff being a more active thing and interests and player expectations and sales demand and what not from the publisher.
I like that they're going for it but I would imagine a lengthy role playing game experience has to be a very risky project but hopefully it sells well enough to break even and then generate profit.
EDIT: It's not Fallout 4 but it's not Baldur's Gate classic either.
EDIT:
img |
I agree, there probably arent many other options for them.
But to tell the truth, it makes me a bit sad as this is labeled Baldurs Gate but doesnt have too much in common with the previous 2 games.
I just watched a bit of gameplay and it just has this weird sillyness around it with odd characters that look ugly and a bit out of place (like the initial lady companion or whatever it is) , the dialogues are mostly short sentences with mediocre acting. I know they cant expand voice acted dialogues too much but even the PC responses are couple of words even though they arent voiced. Also there seems to be a huge amount of combat.
No disrespect to the devs but this seems like a DOS with a bit of DnD lore. Oh well. |
While i agree to some degree, the problem is that gameplay that was present in BG1&2 just isn't a thing anymore. We're in a different time now and to some extent its good that way.
I replayed BG2 just a few months ago (tnx corona) and spent a good 80 hours on it and boy it bring up memories. A full bag of emotion. While i love the game to death, some of it is just tedious and boring.
The game has around 300 spells.... the amount that are useful? maybe 30? you spend most of the time using like 10 anyway. Its really fun casting protection from evil only to find out i should have casted protection from the undead instead... Or fighting vampires you have to cast Negative Plane Protection since that's the only one that works again level drain... but it doesn't work with the Mind Flyers ability score drain, because that's different... There's like a million different protections, shields etc. all targeting one specific thing and each one having a specific counter, but omg does it get tedious. I now understood why i sucked in the game back in 2000 when i was a kid basically. I'm sure all these spells are in D&D and they make sense when you're playing the tabletop since you can use them in all sorts of creative ways, but for a PC game where you are limited by so many things its just too much. Then there's the whole class system and when to multiclass or dual class and it all takes so much knowledge its insane.
I had a blast with the gameplay but its completely bonkers. Balance doesn't exist and you're basically doing all you can to win. Using bullshit mechanics? Fine. Using completely broken spell combos? YEP. I really didn't enjoy it at the start until i changed how i viewed it all. When i started to view combat as a puzzle to be solved with any means necessary is when i really started having fun with it. But it sometimes took me 30 mins to win a certain encounter (i wasn't using online guides, just for help with spells) and when i figured out the correct way it was usually done in a few seconds. Time stop is an interesting one, where you're stuck in time for 18 seconds I have had encounters where the enemy casted time stop immediately, i had to wait 18 seconds, then 4 members were insta killed and 2 were running around like crazy being confused... when i reloaded i prepared for the encounter with all the various counters and shit and won without issue.
Can you imagine gameplay like that in 2020? I couldn't do anything for 20 seconds and then everyone died basically. Having 300 spells. Having these complicated classes etc. Having people "fight" and not hit anything because the enemy is immune to all weapons below +2? Killing bosses, by laying out a shitton of traps and when he stops talking, instakill them? Would be patched out immediately, In BG2? Great job! Creative thinking! Backstabbing dragons in 1 hit on your OP as fuck thief? No problem!
The next thing is the story which...tbh is very mediocre. What makes it all great is all the rich D&D lore and worldbuilding, but the main story is your typical evil man because he's evil. So they don't have a tall mountain to climb there, although truth be told, both D:OS and D:OS2 stories were really mediocre. My biggest gripe with both games, together with the whole goofy and cartoony feel.
Which brings me to my point, that's the only thing worrying me. That the whole thing will be a bit silly. Now BG has its silly moments, but one the whole its has a serious note, which i like. D:OS2 feels the other way around. Sure the story is supposed to be serious, but half the time i felt like i was playing a Monty Python game or to be more geeky an Acquisition Incorporated game. That's my biggest worry. A goofy BG3.
That being said, Larian is the obvious choice to make it. D:OS2 combat is (IMO) a new interpretation of BG2 combat. Every fight is a puzzle, its a bit more balanced, has some cool stuff you can do with elements (just please do something about necrofire). I hope they don't fuck it up too much. |
Ah yes, what you point out I agree with, some BG mechanics were questionable.
Combat system (not the way they balanced it) in DOS games was actually what I enjoyed the most about them, so thats not a bad thing to change I suppose. Although choosing the simple DnD rules is slightly disappointing.
The silly tone to the game is what put me off DOS games, I really dont want a goofy BG3. I know BG1/2 main story wasnt overly creative but imo it was very well presented and yeah the world around it helped loads. Especially Irenicus, the writing/speech (and voice acting) of the character was one of the best ive seen back then.
Last edited by shadak on Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:22; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:22 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | Half of the bad reviews are either:
Crashed once, fail
or
"Released too early, wait for 1.0"
Seriously, they're retarded. |
And this retardedness is why early access is a horrible idea. Just make a demo closer to release or something. But common sense is long lost in this world.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 00:35 Post subject: |
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| shadak wrote: | | xxax wrote: | | shadak wrote: |
I agree, there probably arent many other options for them.
But to tell the truth, it makes me a bit sad as this is labeled Baldurs Gate but doesnt have too much in common with the previous 2 games.
I just watched a bit of gameplay and it just has this weird sillyness around it with odd characters that look ugly and a bit out of place (like the initial lady companion or whatever it is) , the dialogues are mostly short sentences with mediocre acting. I know they cant expand voice acted dialogues too much but even the PC responses are couple of words even though they arent voiced. Also there seems to be a huge amount of combat.
No disrespect to the devs but this seems like a DOS with a bit of DnD lore. Oh well. |
While i agree to some degree, the problem is that gameplay that was present in BG1&2 just isn't a thing anymore. We're in a different time now and to some extent its good that way.
I replayed BG2 just a few months ago (tnx corona) and spent a good 80 hours on it and boy it bring up memories. A full bag of emotion. While i love the game to death, some of it is just tedious and boring.
The game has around 300 spells.... the amount that are useful? maybe 30? you spend most of the time using like 10 anyway. Its really fun casting protection from evil only to find out i should have casted protection from the undead instead... Or fighting vampires you have to cast Negative Plane Protection since that's the only one that works again level drain... but it doesn't work with the Mind Flyers ability score drain, because that's different... There's like a million different protections, shields etc. all targeting one specific thing and each one having a specific counter, but omg does it get tedious. I now understood why i sucked in the game back in 2000 when i was a kid basically. I'm sure all these spells are in D&D and they make sense when you're playing the tabletop since you can use them in all sorts of creative ways, but for a PC game where you are limited by so many things its just too much. Then there's the whole class system and when to multiclass or dual class and it all takes so much knowledge its insane.
I had a blast with the gameplay but its completely bonkers. Balance doesn't exist and you're basically doing all you can to win. Using bullshit mechanics? Fine. Using completely broken spell combos? YEP. I really didn't enjoy it at the start until i changed how i viewed it all. When i started to view combat as a puzzle to be solved with any means necessary is when i really started having fun with it. But it sometimes took me 30 mins to win a certain encounter (i wasn't using online guides, just for help with spells) and when i figured out the correct way it was usually done in a few seconds. Time stop is an interesting one, where you're stuck in time for 18 seconds I have had encounters where the enemy casted time stop immediately, i had to wait 18 seconds, then 4 members were insta killed and 2 were running around like crazy being confused... when i reloaded i prepared for the encounter with all the various counters and shit and won without issue.
Can you imagine gameplay like that in 2020? I couldn't do anything for 20 seconds and then everyone died basically. Having 300 spells. Having these complicated classes etc. Having people "fight" and not hit anything because the enemy is immune to all weapons below +2? Killing bosses, by laying out a shitton of traps and when he stops talking, instakill them? Would be patched out immediately, In BG2? Great job! Creative thinking! Backstabbing dragons in 1 hit on your OP as fuck thief? No problem!
The next thing is the story which...tbh is very mediocre. What makes it all great is all the rich D&D lore and worldbuilding, but the main story is your typical evil man because he's evil. So they don't have a tall mountain to climb there, although truth be told, both D:OS and D:OS2 stories were really mediocre. My biggest gripe with both games, together with the whole goofy and cartoony feel.
Which brings me to my point, that's the only thing worrying me. That the whole thing will be a bit silly. Now BG has its silly moments, but one the whole its has a serious note, which i like. D:OS2 feels the other way around. Sure the story is supposed to be serious, but half the time i felt like i was playing a Monty Python game or to be more geeky an Acquisition Incorporated game. That's my biggest worry. A goofy BG3.
That being said, Larian is the obvious choice to make it. D:OS2 combat is (IMO) a new interpretation of BG2 combat. Every fight is a puzzle, its a bit more balanced, has some cool stuff you can do with elements (just please do something about necrofire). I hope they don't fuck it up too much. |
Ah yes, what you point out I agree with, some BG mechanics were questionable.
Combat system (not the way they balanced it) in DOS games was actually what I enjoyed the most about them, so thats not a bad thing to change I suppose. Although choosing the simple DnD rules is slightly disappointing.
The silly tone to the game is what put me off DOS games, I really dont want a goofy BG3. I know BG1/2 main story wasnt overly creative but imo it was very well presented and yeah the world around it helped loads. Especially Irenicus, the writing/speech (and voice acting) of the character was one of the best ive seen back then. |
Yes Irenicus was epic. I remembered most of his stuff from 20 years ago, he definitely made an impression.
That's why i'm being hopeful a bit. For D:OS they made their own lore/world, but for BG3 they can use a ton of with from D&D. Saying that i just watched some videos on steam and it looks a bit goofy  But i just finished playing Wasteland 3 which was quite dark.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 04:47 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 08:47; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 05:04 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 08:47; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 07:06 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: |
Graphics: slightly above DOS2. |
You need your glasses checked.
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend[s]
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 08:07 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | Half of the bad reviews are either:
Crashed once, fail
or
"Released too early, wait for 1.0"
Seriously, they're retarded. |
And this retardedness is why early access is a horrible idea. Just make a demo closer to release or something. But common sense is long lost in this world. |
It mitigates a lot of risk getting bulk of sales mid to 2/3rds through development, if you don't generate enough hype and sales you just slap a v1 on it and ship no matter how broken it is who cares, gamers will keep coming back no matter how broken shit is.
If you get a lot of buzz and sales you can safely continue patching, definitive edition etc.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 08:12 Post subject: |
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So does the LariLauncher that shows on boot up have the capability to keep the game updated? What's the point of it otherwise?
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 08:21 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 08:41 Post subject: |
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Looks dope but i will wait.
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Ke1N
Posts: 2403
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 08:44 Post subject: |
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I played for about 5 hours yesterday, it seems really interesting and fun but as with any EA title it's full of bugs. I didn't experience any crashes or other technical issues, just bugs with the character models and textures pop-in during "cutscenes", stuff like that. I'm debating whether I should stop here or finish the first act.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 09:12 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | Okay, I gave it 3 hours thus far.
Created a couple of characters, finished the tutorial zone (gameplay wise boring, otherwise decent), and took in a chunk of the place after the tutorial.
Graphics: slightly above DOS2
Gameplay: not bad, not bad. But I still need to get used to it. I much prefer Pathfinder Kingmaker though.
Interface: giving orders is still buggy and feels like still in draft phase.
DnD depth: sadly, this lacks the depth of 3.5 ed or Pathfinder depth. mainstreaming fail
State: this is early access. Some parts work great, others still need a lot of passes - but I have no issue with that.
Overall - too early to tell. I got really bored by DOS2, it just wasn't focused enough for me. This feels more focused, but not as good as Kingmaker.
EDIT: DnD ruleset in 5e is too simple for my taste. Now that I gave it a more thorough test.
With a Rogue for example you use your dex for both attack rolls and damage rolls on finesse weapons from level 1. Fail. Sad.
Equip a weapon in offhand, get a free attack at max attack bonus. OMG, the fail.
Builds are vastly simplified. So sad. |
That's 5e in a nutshell. It doesn't even have feats by default (only as an optional rule).
Same reason why most of my friends have shifted back to playing 3.5 and Pathfinder on the tabletop.
That said, 5e is a brilliant ruleset for getting new players into tabletop gaming. You can use it as a gateway drug to get them into 3.5/Pathfinder. |
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 09:38 Post subject: |
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Looks brilliant. Love these guys.
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 10:25 Post subject: |
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yeah the 5e rulesed is the only thing that i am afraid in this project
also lol at the wkoe-screaming manchildren int he forums
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Oct 2020 11:03 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Looks brilliant. Love these guys. |
Given the situation, today you're ready to love a rabid three legged dog with rabies that has left a diarrhea shit on your doorstep.
So yeah, that's subjective. |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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