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 Posted: Mon, 16th Nov 2020 22:51 Post subject: Need help diagnosing a problem with my PC |
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I know a fair amount of things when it comes to PCs, but at the end of the day I'm still at a very basic level. Figured I'd ask here as I'm pretty sure some of you know a lot more than me.
THE ISSUE
Last night my PC stayed on, as I don't always turn it off or sometimes I fall asleep watching something (you know how it is), but in the morning it was off.
Nothing weird, right? Maybe power went out? When I tried to turn it on nothing was happening. It was getting power as the leds on the motherboard and GPU were on.
I started fiddling with the switches on the power outlet and the PSU. I noticed that cutting power to the PC while switching the PSU off and then on again was causing it to attempt to turn on.
I've had this sort of thing happen before and eventually sorted it out. It was basically turning on for like 1s and then off. Eventually the PC started after I switched the cable to another socket in the power outlet.
That all happened over night, while the PC was idle, no load on any of the components.
Fast forward to a couple of hours ago and the PC just turned off out of nowhere, while I was working in Blender. Went through the same process but I couldn't get it to fire up.
Took the PC apart, cleaned it a bit, took the PSU out and cleaned that, replugged cables, tried different sockets where possible, nothing worked, was doing the same thing of attempting to turn on for 1s when switching the PSU on and then nothing.
Eventually I noticed it was doing that repeatedly and not just once so I left it and it sort of just booted up after a few attempts.
Seems to work for now, but it was the same during today. What I want to know is what the problem is because I expect it to happen again.
RAM - I meant to try using 1 module only, but never did it since it started working. I ran some tests now with MemTest and no errors came up, both modules are recognized too.
GPU - I'm currently in Blender again, getting the renders I wanted to get earlier. Usage between 80-100%, temps 50-60, during rendering.
CPU - During the RAM tests it was pretty much constant 66% usage with 30 degrees. During rendering in Blender (just in the more advanced engine) it's at 100%, up to 50 degrees.
These all seem fine to me... are they not? It still feels like something is wrong with the PSU, some capacitator inside?
I'll try to do some driver and windows updates, but that seems like a big stretch seeing as the second part of my problem is with starting up the PC which doesn't even involve those.
This is also all out of nowhere, haven't fiddled with anything in the PC since I last cleaned it, like 2 months ago, maybe more.
EDIT: Well, the PC just restarted all of a sudden while rendering in Blender again. This really is very similar to a power outage, meaning a PSU problem then?
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Mon, 16th Nov 2020 23:14 Post subject: |
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Hi DR, how have you been? 
Recently had a similar issue (or at least one of them). It turned out to be the PSU. It would "clunk" when pressing the power button, then immediate shut down, but memory and motherboard LEDs keep on. When I took the PC out of the case, and put the PSU in a stationary position, the issue eventually went away. I suspect it was one of the cables doing crap. That that too. Move the PSU and its cables around, see if it makes your PC more stable.
I ended up replacing the PSU.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Mon, 16th Nov 2020 23:34 Post subject: |
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In my case, there was a memory issue first, and as I was tinkering with the case, the sudden shutdown problem also started happening. It became more and more frequent, as I was trying to diagnose the memory issue, and eventually it would not even boot, just "clink" at the PSU and shut down. When I removed the motherboard and PSU from the case, it also wouldn't boot, but then at a certain position, the problem went away. So I ordered a new PSU. 
You can see my issue here:
https://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115706
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| Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2020 22:16 Post subject: |
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A little update. Last night I did whatever windows updates were available and updated the graphics driver. Shouldn't really be connected to that I know, but just in case, since tend to postpone them for months. It still restarted once after that last night, then I shut it down and went to sleep. I fired it up in the morning around 11:30 and it there were no issues all day until now at around 22:00 when it suddenly restarted again.
Said I'd try a BIOS update if it happens again so grabbed the latest (end of last month) and I did that. An interesting thing I noticed as soon as I went into BIOS afterwards. The RAM voltage went down from ~1.36 to 1.216, both were auto values, didn't touch anything. Maybe it was connected to the RAM? The only way to test is to wait so... I'm hoping that did something.
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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| Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2020 22:18 Post subject: |
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would have said it's the psu aswell. be careful in the future, doing bios updates on systems which can suddenly crash isn't the best thing to do.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th Nov 2020 22:24 Post subject: |
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I mean, I know that. Figured I'd go for it anyway since these restarts have been pretty far apart now. My board also has dual BIOS, isn't the backup one there for cases like that as well, where something would happen during BIOS update?
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 15:27 Post subject: |
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Well, after my last post it happened twice more, then it wouldn't start again. Took out the PSU and sent it where I mentioned before. They looked at it and there is indeed something wrong with it, but they didn't have the spare part to fix it.
I'll buy a new one for the moment, then see what I can do with this one.
Any replacement recommendations?
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 16:13 Post subject: |
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https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/1534
I can get this for 90 eurobucks from where I got my GPU.
Pccomponentes have their BF sale, lots of deals there. How are Thermaltake's PSUs?
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 16:21 Post subject: |
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Go with 80 Plus Platinum if you can.
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 17:13 Post subject: |
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https://www.pccomponentes.com/thermaltake-toughpower-pf1-650w-80-plus-platinum-modular
The only platinum one I can find at a more decent price is that. Do you think it's worth paying a bit more for the platinum rating alone? I went with gold before because I figured it's good enough.
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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LeoNatan
Banned
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 17:25 Post subject: |
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Itโs about efficiency, but also components and voltage regulation. Choose as you can afford, but remember that a PSU is replaced once every 5-10 years, soโฆ
Also, are you sure 650W is enough?
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 17:35 Post subject: |
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As far as I'm aware it is, chose that wattage with room to spare back then, I'm fairly sure.
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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LeoNatan
Banned
Posts: 73193
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 17:39 Post subject: |
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nVidia recommends 750W+ PSU s for 3080. Also, using the 90%-100% of the PSU is not recommended. Again, choose as you think is right. Iโm just saying itโs probably a good idea to check recent CPU and GPU power draw to be sure.
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel ๐ฎ๐ฑ
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 17:53 Post subject: |
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For example, taking into account a potential power draw of usb3/thunderbolt 3/usb4, Iโd say even 750W is low. But
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| Posted: Wed, 18th Nov 2020 18:08 Post subject: |
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I think that's fair but with my build, using the OuterVision psu calculator it estimates under 450W. I imagine it's fairly accurate, even if not exact. Waiting until tomorrow to decide exactly anyway. The Thermaltake above seems like a good deal. Otherwise, I can look at a 750W gold one.
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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| Posted: Fri, 20th Nov 2020 16:23 Post subject: |
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Well, bought the Thermaltake one yesterday, it arrived today and I plugged everything in. All good so far. Did a quick benchmark in Horizon and while both CPU and GPU ran at full load, the combined power draw was under 250W, maybe 300W at most with everything else? I don't know what it was with the old one, never took readings like that. Seems good though? Thinking about leaving the PC on overnight to see if anything happens, maybe run some MemTests to give it something to do? If all is good I'll put everything together tomorrow, as currently the PSU is outside of the case.
Thank you for the help by the way!
NZXT S340 ELITE : EVGA Z370 FTW / [ Intel i7 8086k @4.0Ghz ][ ASUS TUF RTX 3060 Ti 8GB ][ 16GB G.Skill Trident Z @3200mhz CL16 ][ 128GB Intel760p Series + 1TB Crucial MX500 + 3TB WD RED ][ Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 650W ]
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just wanted it to say sorry
