Question / opinion enquiry: if a game company sells a buggy mess but then fixes it in 1-2 months, is that really objectively worse than just releasing it 1-2 months later? In either case, you get the completed product in 1-2 months, but in the former case you get the choice of playing the buggy product before that.
Game development before release and game development after release is completely different.
A lot of staff are busy dealing with post release related things which delays or completely removes features or improvements in that 1-2 month period if the game was delayed.
Yes the big bugs that people report will be fixed, but nothing much else will happen.
The reason I posted the numbers, if it wasn't apparent from my post is.
The level of absolute hysteria surrounding the game is so high, people (even on this site) are not taking in to account, there are tons of people out there enjoying the hell out of this game. For what it is. Flaws and all.
I rarely post but this man speaketh the truth...effin ridiculous how much whining there is...it will pass soon but still annoying what has become of the internetz
I'm fairly intollerant of shitty / buggy releases, I installed this out of curiosity and its on par / about as buggy as the Witcher 3 launch was, it's not that big a deal. It may depend how you approach the game, I dont just fuck around in open-world games so maybe im not encountering the bugs people are complaining about. I think those dissapointed expected GTA with good graphics.
Also gameplay mechanics wise I think they've played this fairly safe, its virtually 1:1 Witcher 3 with the skill system, hacking/senses even the car/roach mechanic. Interesting how so many are dissapointed with a game that is almost the same as Witcher 3 with greatly improved graphics. I guess with Witcher 3 it's masked somewhat in that the universe doesn't call for retarded car minigames (who liked horse racing?) and punching people in the street lols.
You can take the soulless blah, its a facade!, no day night schedules! and say exactly the same if not worse about Witcher 3 most npc's dont even move around in W3. I'll keep playing but the reaction so far seems really overblown.
I don't think 1-2 patches will fix this game, well ok - they might fix the glitches which in my opinion are mostly hilarious and hopefully some gamebreaking ones that I so far haven't encountered.
The problem with this game is much deeper however it might be enjoyable but the problem is how underdeveloped some aspects of it are. And the other side of the coin is how some people were hyped about the game and uncritical or overcritical are.
I won't take the story and writing into account here because it varies and the story so far is good but - the other aspects:
- the mechanics are poorly thought out and designed. Sorry but the game can be finished with almost zero investment in perks - most of them are useless or make minimal impact on the game. It's Outer Worlds - if you played you know - level of implementations. Playing on hard I have 400 hypes around 200 grenades because I rarely use them.
- Same with implants, you really only need the leg ones, the rest is useless.
- I don't know if it's and issue but for some might be but after certain point when you gain atleast legendary weapons and epic quickhacks there is zero challenge. With ping and any other legendary quickhack I can incapacitated enemies 400 meters away through walls. I enjoy it but some may not. And so far I met only one enemy that was quickhack-proof.
- Stealth is clearly not implemented properly - well it might have been a challenge in open world but clearly there were mechanics like sound because it is mentioned a couple of times in some implants and quickhacks but it doesn't really work. Enemies can hear you when you walk but only a half a meter away from them. And there are bugs and glitches associated with it that make it not fun.
- The hacking is just too simplified - I understand this decision somehow - but it's immersion breaking.
- As goes for the world being alive or dead - for me it is static as fuck. I don't care for the pedestrian or car AI - don't care that it's barebone compared to GTA because personally and probably most people just don't give a fuck how responsive they are.
But they all are mostly background, non interactive - to the point that they can be shot and spawn police but you can't fuck around with them - you can't cyberpsycho anyone, can't silently take them down. They are there because it's the city.
- Continuing about the world - the police in any state can't be hacked. If you are chased - which being another gripe that it is heavly discouraged by the game mechanics - you are only limited to gunfight.
- This leads to car chases which almost everyone knows they don't exist which is a letdown, huge letdown because some missions just scream for it.
- Still with police - if you hack some or shoot some of the passive gangers that are just enjoying themselves but still when checked have APBs on them - you will get wanted levels. It's specially bothersome if you fuck around with them with hacks. If you hack them from half a mile away - you will be the first suspect for police that stands near by. No fun allowed in Night City - only marked places.
- There are clearly cut dynamic events with VTOLS, police and Trauma Team. There are places where TT are taking care of some of their customers but if you turn around - they disappear CDPR(tm) style. I had a couple of situations that VTOL landed or took of from random places and disappeared.
- The itemization is just meh, you have your useless power weapons, your somehow useful smart weapons and your inba shoot through walls tech weapons. Legendaries and iconic doesn't have any better or cool properties. For 30h know I run with the same tech revolver and precision rifle.
- The nonlethal weapons and approach are mostly an afterthought. It's viable only in a couple of missions where you shouldn't kill anyone. The cyberpsychos gigs are scripted to be nonlethal at the moment despite if you rubber bullet them to hell or grenade shower with clusterbombs.
- The gangers are one of my biggest disappointments. There was so much field for awesome design and mechanics but what you get is reskins. You've got the cyberfreaks, latinos, nippons, steroids but they all the same. They shoot or they jump around. Boring. Also the netrunners that could hack me through walls never appeared again apart from the tutorial.
- The world building also sucks. I wrote about it previously but you have to know something about the events and what cyberpunk is because the game just doesn't deliver enough about it. And for me because of it underdeliver as a setting. I don't get that CP vibe - also setting it in 2077 while most things are as they were in 2020 with characters somehow being 150 years old while you listen in news that they are developing medicine for sclerosis (you can read why it is so - because of the 4th corporate war and the nuclear holocaust - but not in the game). It feels for me more as a Judge Urban Dredd setting than CP.
EDIT: And the game was advertised as you being a criminal but really you can be a chaotic neutral merc at best because everything else is not implemented or underdeveloped...
I enjoy it. It's better for me than most ubi openworlds but in the end it's ubiopenworld with some better writing. Not the second jesus of gaming.
Last edited by VonMisk on Wed, 23rd Dec 2020 08:52; edited 1 time in total
Good list. Since completing the prologue I haven't touched it and have zero enthusiasm to do so. Pretty weird considering how hyped I originally was for this. I will happily leave this until the developers (or more likely modders) have restored this to what was promised.
Good list. Since completing the prologue I haven't touched it and have zero enthusiasm to do so. Pretty weird considering how hyped I originally was for this. I will happily leave this until the developers (or more likely modders) have restored this to what was promised.
I initially had also hoped for modders, but CDPRs engine is nowhere near as easy and comprehensive to mod as say Bethesdas. I guess most of the bugs will be fixed over time and of course there will be QOL improvements, but unfortunately this will always be a mediocre game. There are just to many flaws deeply rooted in the games mechanics.
setting it in 2077 while most things are as they were in 2020 with characters somehow being 150 years old
Yeah I commented about this earlier in the thread I think. It really seems like their original idea was probably set in the 2030s/2040s, but for whatever reason they ended up pushing it way back to 2077. It makes no real sense since the entire main plot is concerned with the events that happened circa 2020-2023. I can only think that it was to avoid clashing with the new PnP edition, but to me it would have made more sense to set the game in between the editions. But I guess that would have required revealing the plot/endings of the game in the book, which wouldn't really be ideal for spoiler reasons when they wanted to launch around the same time to cash in on the hype.
If they will keep it in the approximate actual status, yeah.
If they at least fix the bugs and problems, it will be a 'good game' with an ETA (coming out of EA) in the second half of 2021.
If they decide to also MODIFY game content by improving and adding on it and also restore promised features, it will be a 'great game' when and IF it will be re-released as the typical CD RED Enhanced Edition, in 2022.
Also the netrunners that could hack me through walls never appeared again apart from the tutorial.
I get hacked constantly by Netrunners in fights. Especially when cameras are around (yes, they use cameras to hack you)
Hmm... maybe it bugged out on me or I have some perk.
DCB wrote:
VonMisk wrote:
setting it in 2077 while most things are as they were in 2020 with characters somehow being 150 years old
Yeah I commented about this earlier in the thread I think. It really seems like their original idea was probably set in the 2030s/2040s, but for whatever reason they ended up pushing it way back to 2077. It makes no real sense since the entire main plot is concerned with the events that happened circa 2020-2023. I can only think that it was to avoid clashing with the new PnP edition, but to me it would have made more sense to set the game in between the editions. But I guess that would have required revealing the plot/endings of the game in the book, which wouldn't really be ideal for spoiler reasons when they wanted to launch around the same time to cash in on the hype.
I've read that CDPR made such a decision because 2040 was not too far away. If you don't know the lore it's probably ok but if you know anything it seems too far. Even the explanation that the nuclear war stopped the progress of technology and some of the things were reinvented is just sort of weak.
sar·casm | \ ˈsär-ˌka-zəm \
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b: the use or language of sarcasm
Also gameplay mechanics wise I think they've played this fairly safe, its virtually 1:1 Witcher 3 with the skill system, hacking/senses even the car/roach mechanic. Interesting how so many are dissapointed with a game that is almost the same as Witcher 3 with greatly improved graphics. I guess with Witcher 3 it's masked somewhat in that the universe doesn't call for retarded car minigames (who liked horse racing?) and punching people in the street lols.
You can take the soulless blah, its a facade!, no day night schedules! and say exactly the same if not worse about Witcher 3 most npc's dont even move around in W3. I'll keep playing but the reaction so far seems really overblown.
This is a silly argument. Would the Witcher 3 have been as successful if it was basically just a reskin of the Witcher 2?
Imagine if they spent all those years since the Witcher 2 to only release a reskin. It's dumb.
Or what if they promised features the Witcher 3 had leading up to the release of the game but released a reskin of the Witcher 2 instead. It's not overblown.
I've read that CDPR made such a decision because 2040 was not too far away.
Maybe, but it annoys the shit out of me when people license an IP and then make a bunch of retcons, do stuff that is out of place, etc. Why even bother using the IP in the first place? It's not like the Cyberpunk PnP IP had any mindshare amongst the mainstream gamer demographic. I suppose it's really Pondsmith's fault, since he presumably had to sign off on CDPR's plans.
but whats the difference between 2040 and 2077 anyway when the 2015 segments in the game already have technology above our current times?
it simply takes place in an alternate timeline by now, like blade runner.
I understand the comparison with Witcher 3, its npcs were purely a facade, exactly like this. Although I don't remember npcs disappearing once you walk by them in W3
But that worked for that game, not in a game that is enirely set in a city, with a scifi theme that has everyone connected to the net, allows hacking and so on. Watch Dogs is in that sense a better cyberpunk/open world game as every npc has background info, can be hacked/recruited, etc.
Some missions also have stupid level recommendations. High risk missions turn out to be conversations, or just gate to other missions. (Like the one were your car gets wrecked and you need to go to the main office)
Some of these actually open up some more casual, open world stuff, like races or finding murals and shit. Feels strange to me, and a wrong design decision. Similar games open these quests immediately, but in Cyberpunk it takes 15 hours before you can start doing these? Wtf
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
"Not mentioned anywhere in readme/wiki, but the enable_debug setting allows using instant debug teleport on the map screen!
You need to edit the r6\config\inputUserMappings.xml file first though, search inside it for world_map_menu_debug_teleport, and then add <button id="IK_O"/> underneath that line.
Now make sure enable_debug is set to true inside the config.json (it might be called unlock_menu in older configs, just change that to enable_debug), start the game, open map screen, then you can just hover over any map icon and hold the O key to teleport there!
(you can also teleport to your custom waypoint too, basically letting you teleport anywhere )"
"Not mentioned anywhere in readme/wiki, but the enable_debug setting allows using instant debug teleport on the map screen!
You need to edit the r6\config\inputUserMappings.xml file first though, search inside it for world_map_menu_debug_teleport, and then add <button id="IK_O"/> underneath that line.
Now make sure enable_debug is set to true inside the config.json (it might be called unlock_menu in older configs, just change that to enable_debug), start the game, open map screen, then you can just hover over any map icon and hold the O key to teleport there!
(you can also teleport to your custom waypoint too, basically letting you teleport anywhere )"
I'd be cautious overusing this. I remember the fast travel anywhere mod for TW3 could potentially break a few quests if you used it at the wrong moment.
Omg, I just, for giggles, was searching for a game that used Havok in it's early stages and guess what, Deus Ex Invisible War did use it. So I looked for some videos about it on the tube and this popped up:
Skip to the first marker at 4 minutes and listen, lol. It almost applies 1:1 to CP77 (with maybe the story as an exception)
Omg, I just, for giggles, was searching for a game that used Havok in it's early stages and guess what, Deus Ex Invisible War did use it. So I looked for some videos about it on the tube and this popped up:
Skip to the first marker at 4 minutes and listen, lol. It almost applies 1:1 to CP77 (with maybe the story as an exception)
havok the least of Invisible wars concerns.. what really fucked it was the console memory limitations for level size, same with the Thief: deadly shadows which is on the same engine, although it fared better honestly.
you're right in that both probably suffer the same limitation of being tied to an ancient console
but then i actually watched the video and saw it was the same thing
i don't think it would have made a massive difference to cyberpunk in honesty but it's hard to know how much damage the ps4 and xbox consoles did here.
Encountered a bug in the Freedom of the Press gig. When you go to the location, DON'T attack the gang across the street robbing the food stall. Apparently, the guy you need to protect is part of the gang and if you kill him, the quest immediately fails when you enter the building.
Hopefully this will get fixed in the next patch. It seems this kind of issue, of killing gangs/events in the street breaking certain, quests occurs more?
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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(you can read why it is so - because of the 4th corporate war and the nuclear holocaust - but not in the game). It feels for me more as a Judge Urban Dredd setting than CP.
