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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 21:01 Post subject: |
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@couleur It'll spiral out of control though, it already has. It will be and it is used, by people who are only using it as a political platform / for power. It's them who are the driving force behind it even, not the very few people who actually believe they are born with the wrong gender.
If there's no limit to genders, then why stop there, why limit ourselves to be seen as human? You'd be crazy to think it will stop at gender. If gender is just an idea, then being a "human" is just an idea as well. We have to set limits. There are two genders, we are humans, there's science to back it up.
Nothing limits people from having sexual fantasies, role-playing, fucking the same gender or both genders, i bet we've always done that. But this "it's offensive to not X, Y, Z..." is only damaging, it's not doing "these people" any service, it's just political activism.
This "i'm not accepted, i'm singeled out!!!" bs needs to stop because its just not true. it can be said for everyone that exists, its not just based on genders or skin color, someone might not accept me because i like the music that i like, or how i look or talk, so fucking what, life goes on, it's not something to build an identity around like these people are doing - "i'm oppressed!" (or pointing fingers at others - you are oppressed, you have riGhTs!!!" That's very harmful and dangerous.
Last edited by vurt on Thu, 11th Feb 2021 21:16; edited 1 time in total
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Nalo
nothing
Posts: 13524
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 21:12 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Nalo on Wed, 3rd Jul 2024 05:41; edited 3 times in total
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14383
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 21:22 Post subject: |
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I agree that "these people" if that means the people screeching on social media, are only doing harm. I also agree that the way our society deals with this is counter-productive and dangerous to cultural heritage. I agree that this feeling of entitlement that seems to have caught everyone and their mother nowadays, that is harmful. But you find it everywhere. Kids do not learn what it means to be responsible. They learn to cheat and lie and their parents will back them up all the time.
But the concept of what humans are, has constantly changed throughout history, and they do not depend wholly on science. Science determines matters of fact. But genders and their roles are determined by social interactions, history and sometimes also political changes, and many times simply on language. Anthropology is a fairly new discipline, but philosophers have been asking questions about what it is to be human since forever. Not too long ago, we thought humans had a soul and animals did not. Or that humans were created according to gods image. (when its more likely the other way around).
So I trust biology when the doctor says, my prostate needs an exam, but I wouldn't go out of my way to say there are only two genders. Eventhough I personally think it make things alot easier for me. But having slaves and multiple wives would make things alot easier too. So there is that.
| Nalo wrote: | | couleur wrote: | I like to support the idea that biological sex and gender are a different thing. Everything else is pure tradition and honestly holds no absolute value besides people holding on to it for whatever reason. Mostly, to feel secure about themselves or the world they live in and how they see it.
The biological sex depends on function, something either ejaculates sperm or produces eggs. Some people are born between these things, but the norm obviously favors reproduction. But to whatever people feel attracted to, that's also very complicated, much more than I ever thought, and it's far less psychological than hormonal and can depend on so many factors, one being the mothers hormonal level in the first weeks of emotional life. So there are effectively people born with a sex that doesn't correspond to the gender that society traditionally attributes to it.
I know I've written this before and I remember Leo having a lot more detail to add. But it seems to me many people (including me) are quite uneducated when it comes to how sexuality works. Obviously because it's a complex subject that neurologists and biologists and psychologists work with, who have just more science than the average Joe. |
Are you saying that the mother's hormone levels influence the child's gender? |
edit: They influence their sexual orientation to be more precise. Well, at least there are strong indications that they do.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 21:50 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | @couleur It'll spiral out of control though, it already has. It will be and it is used, by people who are only using it as a political platform / for power. It's them who are the driving force behind it even, not the very few people who actually believe they are born with the wrong gender.
If there's no limit to genders, then why stop there, why limit ourselves to be seen as human? You'd be crazy to think it will stop at gender. If gender is just an idea, then being a "human" is just an idea as well. We have to set limits. There are two genders, we are humans, there's science to back it up.
Nothing limits people from having sexual fantasies, role-playing, fucking the same gender or both genders, i bet we've always done that. But this "it's offensive to not X, Y, Z..." is only damaging, it's not doing "these people" any service, it's just political activism.
This "i'm not accepted, i'm singeled out!!!" bs needs to stop because its just not true. it can be said for everyone that exists, its not just based on genders or skin color, someone might not accept me because i like the music that i like, or how i look or talk, so fucking what, life goes on, it's not something to build an identity around like these people are doing - "i'm oppressed!" (or pointing fingers at others - you are oppressed, you have riGhTs!!!" That's very harmful and dangerous. |
So you say that transgender people are well accepted by society and treated equal and the only reason they complain is to gain more attention, all while you call them mentally ill attention seekers? 
Who are those people you are speaking of that are seeking _POWER_ by "pretending" to want equal rights for trans people?
1. Achieve that trans people are treated like regular humans.
2. ...
3. POWER!
Can you fill in step 2? (you may add additional steps, but only if they are actually relevant to step 1)
Thx! |
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 22:02 Post subject: |
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Sex ed for your kids 2022:
"Remember kids, before sex..... ask them whats their biological sex, whats the pronoun they prefer, if its a male to female, just use vaseline, no condoms needed, install the consent app and make the contract...."
Shit will be so weird in a few years. Poor kids
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14383
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 22:05 Post subject: |
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| Lopin18 wrote: | Sex ed for your kids 2022:
"Remember kids, before sex..... ask them whats their biological sex, whats the pronoun they prefer, if its a male to female, just use vaseline, no condoms needed, install the consent app and make the contract...."
Shit will be so weird in a few years. Poor kids |
It depends, will your kids go to a special school for trans children? Or will they go to a standard school. Because in real life the very very large majority of people are not trans. Even in 2022.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 22:21 Post subject: |
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I know its a minority, but the fact that something like this could happen and would be offensive to not be ready... is kind of insane. I read some reddit posts on relationship advice around this exact topic, heck the most insane one i remember is a boy that his girlfriend decided she was now a he and he basically broke it off because "im not into man", shes a bio female, how insane does that shit sound lol.
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vurt
Posts: 13876
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Feb 2021 22:51 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: |
So you say that transgender people are well accepted by society and treated equal and the only reason they complain is to gain more attention, all while you call them mentally ill attention seekers?
Who are those people you are speaking of that are seeking _POWER_ by "pretending" to want equal rights for trans people?
1. Achieve that trans people are treated like regular humans.
2. ...
3. POWER!
Can you fill in step 2? (you may add additional steps, but only if they are actually relevant to step 1)
Thx! |
Are you saying they are not accepted? By whom? Who doesn't treat them like "regular humans"? I somehow doubt you live in a muslim country. No, i didn't say all of them are mentally ill.
The best example we have in recent years is probably BLM, similar activism. Where you now have everything from sport events, movies, MSM, politicians, actors bowing down to their ideas, their politics.
As for activism for LBTQ we have several parties and large organizations here who have much to gain from pretending these people are a "targeted group", it'll very easily give them both votes and funding=power. These things can then easily extend to getting things censored or closed down, a way of removing opponents, for example. Sweden have RFSU, for example, who are almost like a maffia, on paper they fight for LBTQ and to give "sexual information/education", they can easily extort companies for money to be "LBTQ verified" and whatnot, if they don't comply they'll be labeled anti-gay or anti-LBTQ, no company wants that since they'll be targeted by the left / MSM.
Then we have people on e.g twitter who might not be a part of some organization or political party, for them the power display is more getting people off the platform for example or changing the platform. The people who's been wanting Gina Carano cancelled are obviously cheering and feeling very powerful right now, probably thinking they had tons to do with it, and maybe to some extent they had.
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Feb 2021 00:06 Post subject: |
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World is beyond repair, it really is.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Feb 2021 01:15 Post subject: |
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| Lopin18 wrote: | | I know its a minority, but the fact that something like this could happen and would be offensive to not be ready... is kind of insane. I read some reddit posts on relationship advice around this exact topic, heck the most insane one i remember is a boy that his girlfriend decided she was now a he and he basically broke it off because "im not into man", shes a bio female, how insane does that shit sound lol. |
Hard to know who you think is insane from your post, but i'd do the same as this guy, and its a pretty obvious reaction i'd think.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Feb 2021 08:35 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | Lopin18 wrote: | | I know its a minority, but the fact that something like this could happen and would be offensive to not be ready... is kind of insane. I read some reddit posts on relationship advice around this exact topic, heck the most insane one i remember is a boy that his girlfriend decided she was now a he and he basically broke it off because "im not into man", shes a bio female, how insane does that shit sound lol. |
Hard to know who you think is insane from your post, but i'd do the same as this guy, and its a pretty obvious reaction i'd think. |
I think he is right, it is insane, just because the girl decided to identify as a boy, until she does something she is still a girl, I could decide to identify as a small chocolate muffin, but at the end of the day I'm still human male.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Feb 2021 08:42 Post subject: |
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| Reg67 wrote: | | Stormwolf wrote: | | Lopin18 wrote: | | I know its a minority, but the fact that something like this could happen and would be offensive to not be ready... is kind of insane. I read some reddit posts on relationship advice around this exact topic, heck the most insane one i remember is a boy that his girlfriend decided she was now a he and he basically broke it off because "im not into man", shes a bio female, how insane does that shit sound lol. |
Hard to know who you think is insane from your post, but i'd do the same as this guy, and its a pretty obvious reaction i'd think. |
I think he is right, it is insane, just because the girl decided to identify as a boy, until she does something she is still a girl, I could decide to identify as a small chocolate muffin, but at the end of the day I'm still human male. |
Ohh naturally. I did assume she went through this and that to be more than just in words.
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