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Ronhrin
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Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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 Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 18:33 Post subject: European Constitution Talks |
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there are currentlly more and more official talks about a possible European Constitution, that, if approved will firstly apply for EU only, and later possibily for the entire Europe.
it seems that the leaders of EU are trying to convert Europe to something like the US.
at first it seems a pretty awesome idea, to unite all Europe together, but it will be impossible to convert Europe to a "single nation"
there are several reasons, one of those is the language, contrary to the US who speak 99% american english (aka bad english), Europe has several different languages that are very different from each other, I mean, are we all to adopt the same language?
are we all to stop speaking our country language and start speaking only English? or German? or French? or Portuguese?
another problem has to do with each country laws, wich are obviously very different across Europe.
I honestly believe that we have much more to lose than to gain with this new concept of Europe.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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SycoShaman
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Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 19:55 Post subject: |
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Well, when it comes to the language issue, I think your gettin a little worked up over nothing.
Canada, for example, has 2 official languages. English and French. 99% of Canada (or rather the majority) speaks English but we still honour our french speaking canadians.
Why not do something like that in Europe?
Make the standard language English and then the 2nd language is the other official language of whatever country your in.
So say u live in Poland. The 2 official languages would be English and Polish. Or if u lived in Hungary, the 2 official languages would be English and Magyar (Hungarian). See what i mean?
Whats wrong with that? Dont most Europeans speak decent enough english anyway? Aside from the old timers...just like the old folks in quebec usually ONLY speak French, which is also cool too.
Oh, and gramatically and phonetically correct 'American English' is not bad english at all. I can speak properly and write properly if I have to. Say if Im being interviewed for a job and such.
North Americans (Canadians and Americans) speak a ton of slang on the reg. And yeah, it is bad english. But dont assume everyone speaks ONLY slang. Most people can speak in a dignified mannor when need be and speak casually when need be.
The way I write on here u might, at times, think im either really stupid and or immature. Let me assure you, Im not. But I type how I speak and Im not speaking nor typing formally on an internet forum that I consider to be a leisure activity. If i wanted to write essay's and paper's, I would have gone into journalism.
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kosmiq
Posts: 2304
Location: Somewhere
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 19:56 Post subject: |
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I think that the European Union as it is maintained today will ultimately get rid of itself. As long as the original countries has all the benefits and makes damn sure they uses them to gain a lot EU will remain unfair and stop its own evolution to a better result.
I think it is important for all countries to be able to express its own international policy. Simply imagine a "country" named EU and when and how to decide politics to show the rest of the world. Who would decide it? Would everyone get equal votes? I think not, germany and the others will still use their power.
I do believe that a junited union can be very powerful, but before I support it the whole system must make all countries equal.
Behold his GLORY! Bow for the technical master!
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 22:55 Post subject: |
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@syco, its not that simple cause most countrys have 2 or more different languages. for example now belgium. we have 3 official languages: dutch,french and german. if you were to use english as first language (which sucks cause there wouldnt be any diversity, second language english is perfect) and then use french as second language then the dutch and german speaking people would complain which is understandable.
the european union will die if they let turkey in , i hate that idea not because its turkey but because it isnt europe, why make a european union then if any country can join. hey japan wanna join the european union.
its ridiculous that there are countries with veto in the european union (same as in nato)
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 23:07 Post subject: |
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the EU is a stupid idea. Never should countries band together like the eu has itll lead to some serious problems down the road. Why couldnt they just settle for a military alliance?
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 23:24 Post subject: |
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because Europe wants to be a single country and a country more powerfull than the US, Europe grows in the shadow of the US.
EU wants to have the power to disagree with the US and doesn't want to be divided because 2 or 3 countries support the US blindless.
I still believe it won't work mainly because of our different languages and laws.
but this kind of union would be very lucrative to Europe, there are some european countries with a very low quality of life, and there are another countries with a very high quality, this union will estabilize the economy of several european countries and Europe would evolve a lot faster.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 23:26 Post subject: |
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Do you think turkey should be in the EU?
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Mon, 6th Mar 2006 23:39 Post subject: |
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no, turkey isn't europe, why should they join us?
Russia has more right to join us than Turkey, (and I doesn't support Russia joining the EU)
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:00 Post subject: |
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If European countries were to unite then a formidable coalition they would make.
A lot of the propaganda siding on the difficuilties is stirred by America. They do NOT want a United Europe.
The language issue is no real problem. English is a universal across the globe. Each country can maintain their individuality including language. If a French man can only speak French, he's not going to look for a job in the U.K. is he? However Belgium would be an option to him.
A United Europe will give us the power and influence to affect the globe in a positive way. We could have a major space programme, compete with China regarding trade, lead the World for the greater good and be a respectable role model for other nations.
We must get the policies right so that it is united for the people, not the politicians.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:07 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | no, turkey isn't europe, why should they join us?
Russia has more right to join us than Turkey, (and I doesn't support Russia joining the EU) |
its far too soon for turkey to be considered as an eu member, as its mentality
is closer to iran than to europe in comparison. |
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:12 Post subject: |
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| JeanPerrier wrote: | @syco, its not that simple cause most countrys have 2 or more different languages. for example now belgium. we have 3 official languages: dutch,french and german. if you were to use english as first language (which sucks cause there wouldnt be any diversity, second language english is perfect) and then use french as second language then the dutch and german speaking people would complain which is understandable.
the european union will die if they let turkey in , i hate that idea not because its turkey but because it isnt europe, why make a european union then if any country can join. hey japan wanna join the european union.
its ridiculous that there are countries with veto in the european union (same as in nato) |
Yeah, that would get a little confusing/tricky to work out.
Personally, I wouldnt want to see europe as one big country...I wanna be able to travel to each country within europe and experience each culture and the diversity that comes along with that. Blending such diverse cultures and traditions would ruin things.
But I do think all of europe should be on the same page on some fundamental issues like defence and standards of living and stuff. |
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:17 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: | @syco, its not that simple cause most countrys have 2 or more different languages. for example now belgium. we have 3 official languages: dutch,french and german. if you were to use english as first language (which sucks cause there wouldnt be any diversity, second language english is perfect) and then use french as second language then the dutch and german speaking people would complain which is understandable.
the european union will die if they let turkey in , i hate that idea not because its turkey but because it isnt europe, why make a european union then if any country can join. hey japan wanna join the european union.
its ridiculous that there are countries with veto in the european union (same as in nato) |
Yeah, that would get a little confusing/tricky to work out.
Personally, I wouldnt want to see europe as one big country...I wanna be able to travel to each country within europe and experience each culture and the diversity that comes along with that. Blending such diverse cultures and traditions would ruin things.
But I do think all of europe should be on the same page on some fundamental issues like defence and standards of living and stuff. |
Why do people assume that each country, as it is now, would lose its identity?
America differs greatly, why would Europe not?
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SycoShaman
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Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:20 Post subject: |
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| CobbMk2 wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | JeanPerrier wrote: | @syco, its not that simple cause most countrys have 2 or more different languages. for example now belgium. we have 3 official languages: dutch,french and german. if you were to use english as first language (which sucks cause there wouldnt be any diversity, second language english is perfect) and then use french as second language then the dutch and german speaking people would complain which is understandable.
the european union will die if they let turkey in , i hate that idea not because its turkey but because it isnt europe, why make a european union then if any country can join. hey japan wanna join the european union.
its ridiculous that there are countries with veto in the european union (same as in nato) |
Yeah, that would get a little confusing/tricky to work out.
Personally, I wouldnt want to see europe as one big country...I wanna be able to travel to each country within europe and experience each culture and the diversity that comes along with that. Blending such diverse cultures and traditions would ruin things.
But I do think all of europe should be on the same page on some fundamental issues like defence and standards of living and stuff. |
Why do people assume that each country, as it is now, would lose its identity?
America differs greatly, why would Europe not? |
America is full of diversity true, but its also very much alike, same with Canada.
Europe is very diverse, atleast in my view. England, Norway, Sweden, italy etc different cultures who all, at one point, had an empire and stuff you know? |
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:34 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | Yeah, that would get a little confusing/tricky to work out.
Personally, I wouldnt want to see europe as one big country...I wanna be able to travel to each country within europe and experience each culture and the diversity that comes along with that. Blending such diverse cultures and traditions would ruin things.
But I do think all of europe should be on the same page on some fundamental issues like defence and standards of living and stuff. |
if we were to unite as one country we wouldn't lose our different cultures, the only major cultural problem would be the languages itself, but all the rest would remain the same.
the united states are a good example for this, each american state is different from each other and they maintain independent cultures.
I also agree with CobbMk2, the world needs another power that doesn't walk in the shadow of the US, Europe has a great potential, and we have by far more good intentions that the US goverment, and we can solve several problems in the world without the use of force, and I also agree that if we unite as one, we can have a great space program.
EU is one of the more peacefull places on earth in this time of war, and I believe that most European countries will grasp this union with hope for a even better and more stable europe, I continue to say that our major difference would be the language issue, but I also believe that if the union is well programmed, we will work it out.
I believe that a united europe has only good things to give to itself and to the rest of the world.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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SycoShaman
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Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 00:35 Post subject: |
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Yeah, thats so very true. We need another Super Power so people have the option you know? Both on the military front and economic front.
I thought losing diversity was the issue...? 
the language thing could probably be resolved, if given enough time and thought
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Ronhrin
Banned
Posts: 6428
Location: Paradigms are changeable, reality is absolute.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 01:05 Post subject: |
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well, they would probably forbidd the legal drugs in the neatherlands, but other than that, I'm trully convinced that a united europe is the best thing that can happen to europe and the world.
our economy would be far more stronger than China, US and all the other powers.
each european country has a very organized military, and united we would be stronger than most of the world powers, but I honestly believe that our military would work in a passive way than the US, Europe is a peacefull place and our military is more used to give humanitary help than to invade countries and intimidate others.
there are several problems in the world, but I also believe that we cannot stop evolving because of those problems, and I think that one of the most important things to do if we unite would be our space program, the US ecnonomy is on a very serious condition, NASA is basicly spending their last dollars in probes that fail 50% of the times.
the chinese space program major concern is to put a man back into the moon in order to demonstrate china power.
we have some of the best scientists in the world and we have a very good idea of what's the next steps in space exploration, and we have the resources and capability to have a great space program.
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
- Benjamin Franklin - 1759
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 01:57 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | well, they would probably forbidd the legal drugs in the neatherlands, but other than that, I'm trully convinced that a united europe is the best thing that can happen to europe and the world.
our economy would be far more stronger than China, US and all the other powers.
each european country has a very organized military, and united we would be stronger than most of the world powers, but I honestly believe that our military would work in a passive way than the US, Europe is a peacefull place and our military is more used to give humanitary help than to invade countries and intimidate others.
there are several problems in the world, but I also believe that we cannot stop evolving because of those problems, and I think that one of the most important things to do if we unite would be our space program, the US ecnonomy is on a very serious condition, NASA is basicly spending their last dollars in probes that fail 50% of the times.
the chinese space program major concern is to put a man back into the moon in order to demonstrate china power.
we have some of the best scientists in the world and we have a very good idea of what's the next steps in space exploration, and we have the resources and capability to have a great space program. |
Very true |
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Mar 2006 02:15 Post subject: |
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| Ronhrin wrote: | well, they would probably forbidd the legal drugs in the neatherlands, but other than that, I'm trully convinced that a united europe is the best thing that can happen to europe and the world.
our economy would be far more stronger than China, US and all the other powers.
each european country has a very organized military, and united we would be stronger than most of the world powers, but I honestly believe that our military would work in a passive way than the US, Europe is a peacefull place and our military is more used to give humanitary help than to invade countries and intimidate others.
there are several problems in the world, but I also believe that we cannot stop evolving because of those problems, and I think that one of the most important things to do if we unite would be our space program, the US ecnonomy is on a very serious condition, NASA is basicly spending their last dollars in probes that fail 50% of the times.
the chinese space program major concern is to put a man back into the moon in order to demonstrate china power.
we have some of the best scientists in the world and we have a very good idea of what's the next steps in space exploration, and we have the resources and capability to have a great space program. |
I would love for the EU to start sending people into space and funding their space program better. It might get bush to send some of his military money to nasa so we arnt embarrsed by china AND the EU.
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